kelmo
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Member # 8797
posted
A woman I know from church caught up with me today to ask how my daughter was doing. People have followed her illness for years.
She is a very intelligent woman, a researcher, scholar, & intellectual. She said she had been forced to do a lot of research lately on Lyme disease.
Today, she was heading home to get ready to have her yard sprayed again for ticks. She lost two dogs to RMSFever and the second was positive for Erlichia. She said the "illness wasn't pretty".
She said she has a respect for the disease and the ensuing treatment and now understood why my daughter was/is so ill.
I told her to watch for symptoms, it's more common than you would think if you look at the increase in disease such as MS, Parkinsons, etc.
Just thought I would share this. It's everywhere!
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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robi
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Member # 5547
posted
new mexico? in the middle of the desert?
-------------------- Now, since I put reality on the back burner, my days are jam-packed and fun-filled. ..........lily tomlin as 'trudy' Posts: 2503 | From here | Registered: Apr 2004
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I'm so glad this woman is trying to protect herself and will alert others to the dangers!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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robi
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Member # 5547
posted
I still think it is highly unlikely in the desert of new mexico. Yes, a dog or bird may drop a tick there, but there are no hosts for the tick to live on for a long period of time. If you happen to be there and get bit, sure ......... but that is highly unlikely. Possible, yes, but unlikely.
It is the only place I feel safe outdoors.
-------------------- Now, since I put reality on the back burner, my days are jam-packed and fun-filled. ..........lily tomlin as 'trudy' Posts: 2503 | From here | Registered: Apr 2004
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kelmo
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Member # 8797
posted
Well, my daughter and I are living proof. Both natives of this great state.
West Nile is big here, why not Lyme?
I believe our problem is not deer ticks, but mosquitoes and migratory birds.
You know what surprised me? I've lived here my entire life, and never saw a deer or javalina. I went to a woman's house in the middle of the desert. Saguaro's all around. She filled a trough with feed, and we sat in her living room and watched deer, javalina, coyotes, come out of the bushes to feed. DEER! I had only seen them up in the northern areas!
People move out here from back east. Maybe they have undiagnosed Lyme. Mosquitoes feed and fly.
The possibilities are endless
The illegals that cross the border have been found to be infected with bartonella. Bart is the bigger problem here. Babesia is growing quickly.
Yup! It's here, all right!
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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CaliforniaLyme
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Member # 7136
posted
Robi, the reason the West Coast has disparate rates of infection in nymphs versus adult ticks is because so many nymphs feed on the Western Fence Lizards- lizards are frequent hosts of ticks in California!!! I don't know about New Mexico rates or their ecology but within the framework of hosts and vectors there are surely lots of lizards in New Mexico*)!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jellybelly
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posted
Everyone who has never been there thinks New Mexico is all hot a desert. It's not!. I lived in Santa Fe for a while, it's gorgeous. It is 7000 feet, Pinon pines, cottonwoods and more natural flowers growing then I have ever seen anywhere. So many trees, that you can barely make out the fact that there is a town there during the day light.
Santa Fe sits at the end of the Rocky Mountains and actually has it's own ski resort where they had about 18 feet of snow a couple of years ago. In the summer it is about 80 degrees.
The landscape there is not a whole lot different then where I grew up and was infected in the Sierras.
There are beautiful pine forests, and one of the prettiest, lush green valleys I have ever seen. This area gets tons of snow.
Ticks? they have them for a certainty. I have seen one on a friends little dog who never leaves their beautifully landscaped yard. They do have ticks, for sure! My friend said, "Ah, it's JUST A TICK"!!!!!
A pretty well known LLMD lives in New Mexico, DR. K.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
EVERY state has mice....and deer....and ticks!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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robi
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Member # 5547
posted
Ok let me clarify. I lived in NM for 18 years.
Never saw a tick. Spent a great deal of time outdoors. Never a tick bite. Never sick with flu-like illness.
Cave all your ideas are good and valid. The State of Denial is not actually in NM. I believe it is a country.....once called the United States ....... but that's another post in another section.
I know people move to NM with Lyme, but I am talking about contracting it in NM.
Kelmo .... I am talking NM not AZ. Different climate.
I am not referring to the lush areas. I said " high mountain deset" ya know ........ hot, scrubby, sandy areas. Not the forest with the trees and deer.
Jelly, I am familiar with the Santa Fe ski area. Yes, very lush, but that is not the area I referred to. Last I spoke with Dr.K he said he THINKS that two folks he knows MAY have contracted Lyme around Santa Fe.
So here is what I thought I said and am trying to say:
I lived in NM for 18 years, no ticks in an extensive amount of time outdoors. I move to VA and with in 5 or 6 months I am very ill. This is after a handful of hikes and a run in a residential neighborhood in Maryland, where I believe I got bit. I contract Lyme!!
I am taking about the odds here folks ....... not 100% absolutes ( since there is no such thing anyway).
Where would you say it is far less likely to get bit by an infected tick, the east or in the desert?
I think, based on personal experience, the chances of contracting Lyme in NM are 1 in a million. On the east? Well, most I talk to have been bitten several times by ticks. Some are luckier than others ........ so never develop illness, but most have been bitten.
On the other hand, most in NM will say I have never been bitten by a tick and rarely have seen one.
So thats what I mean ......... highly unlikely .... not totally impossible.
Ok then.
robi
-------------------- Now, since I put reality on the back burner, my days are jam-packed and fun-filled. ..........lily tomlin as 'trudy' Posts: 2503 | From here | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
There are ticks in fairly arid areas. As long as there are mammals and birds for them to feed on and be spread by, you can find them just about anywhere. And if you have ticks, tickborne illnesses will appear, eventually.
I've seen lots of deer in fairly dry, nearly treeless areas of Colorado.
DaveS
Posts: 4567 | From ithaca, NY, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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Jellybelly
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Member # 7142
posted
I would pick just about anywhere other then the east coast Robi. Compared to the east coast ticks are minimal.
I believe though that it is just a matter of time before Lyme is everywhere, not just the ticks. A place that Lyme isn't really endemic is Hawaii. BUT, I have NEVER seen so many ticks anywhere, ever. I was constantly picking them off my poor dog who happened to die rather young of congestive heart failure.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
I agree rObi that it is probably much rarer there than other places!!! MUCH rarer!!
But additional hosts of ticks that carry TBDs are bunny rabbits, mice, lizards and... When in doubt, consult Pubmed*)!!!!!!!!!!!!! And as always, I learned something! Didn't even think of these guys*)!*)! BATS!!! Bat ticks carry a bunch of TBDs including Bartonella, Rickettsia and RF borrelia- but not Lyme!!! (that I could find in my 10 minute investigation*)!!
And relapsing fever ticks in the bunny rabbits!! And multiple relapsing fever reports from NM!!
Remember that some RF strains are milder than others and can be mistaken for Lyme-!!! I am sure Lyme is there- but there were only 3 CDC confirmed cases in NM in 2005- the highest year was 1997 with 5 cases!!! Of course, we know that is not the true number-in 2005 they say CALIFORNIA only had 95 cases!!!
*sigh*
ONE DAY we will have a clearer picture- !!!! *************************************************
1: J Med Entomol. 2001 Jul;38(4):609-11.Links
Tick (Acari) infestations of bats in New Mexico.
Steinlein DB, Durden LA, Cannon WL. Institute of Arthropodology and Parasitology, Georgia Southern University, Statesboro 30460, USA.
A total of 278 bats belonging to 16 species was examined for ticks from various sites in New Mexico from 1994 to 1998.
Seven species of bats were parasitized by ticks: larvae of Ornithodoros kelleyi Cooley & Kohls, Ornithodoros rossi Kohls, Sonenshine & Clifford (Argasidae), or both. Both species of ticks are reported from New Mexico for the first time.
Infestation prevalences for parasitized bats ranged from 2 to 25% on different host species for O. kelleyi and from 7 to 25% for O. rossi.
The pallid bat, Antrozous pallidus, and the big brown bat. Eptesicus fuscus, were parasitized by both tick species.
No distinct host specificity was noted for either tick species.
PMID: 11476346
1: J Med Entomol. 2005 May;42(3):473-80.Links
Detection of Rickettsia, Borrelia, and Bartonella in Carios kelleyi (Acari: Argasidae).
Loftis AD, Gill JS, Schriefer ME, Levin ML, Eremeeva ME, Gilchrist MJ, Dasch GA. Viral and Rickettsial Zoonoses Branch, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA 30333, USA. [email protected]
Carios kelleyi (Colley & Kohls 1941), a tick associated with bats and bat habitats, has been reported to feed on humans, but there is little published data regarding the presence of vector-borne pathogens in these ticks.
C. kelleyi nymphs and adults were collected from residential and community buildings in Jackson County, Iowa, and tested by polymerase chain reaction for Rickettsia, Borrelia, Bartonella, Coxiella, and Anaplasma. Rickettsia DNA was detected in 28 of 31 live ticks.
Sequences of the 17-kDa and rOmpA genes suggest that this agent is a novel spotted fever group Rickettsia. Transstadial and transovarial transmission of this Rickettsia were demonstrated.
The flagellin gene of a Borrelia, closely related to B. turicatae, was detected in one of 31 live ticks.
The 16S-23S intergenic spacer region of Bartonella henselae also was detected in one of 31 live ticks.
Coxiella or A. phagocytophilum DNA were not detected in these ticks.
PMID: 15962801
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jellybelly
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posted
Ticks are spreading. Did you see Gore's documentary, Inconvenient Truth? One of the things he mentions was that insects once found in certain areas are now spreading to areas where they were not really seen before. One critter he specifically mentioned was TICKS.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Jellybelly: I would pick just about anywhere other then the east coast Robi. Compared to the east coast ticks are minimal.
Don't be too sure about that!! There are areas of California (NW of SF, for example) with a heck of a lot of ticks. Not only that, but they have an extra-nasty strain of Babesia there. And the way deer are "domesticating", the numbers are sure to increase everywhere.
Soil type is important, too, but I think central CA, for one, has many areas with the right sort of soil! I'm pretty nervous when I go there. There may be more hope for balance there, though-- there is generally more open space, so they have a healthier predator population than here. (I saw a mountain lion there, for example..)
DaveS
Posts: 4567 | From ithaca, NY, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Jellybelly: One of the things he mentions was that insects once found in certain areas are now spreading to areas where they were not really seen before. One critter he specifically mentioned was TICKS.
Does he know ticks aren't insects?? Just wondering if it was stated that way.
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Jellybelly
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posted
I don't know Tutu ....insects, bugs.....in my world they are the same, just bugs. I think you get the point of what he was saying though....don't ya? There are more of what ever species they fit into appearing due to "global warming"..... so he says. You are talking to a lyme brain here Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jellybelly
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posted
quote: Don't be too sure about that!!
I know Dave there are ticks everywhere, heck I was infected in California with Lyme many, many moons ago. I still say that ticks carrying Lyme are minmal here in California compared to the east coast. I still go to the place where I was infected. I don't know that I would like to go to the areas in the east where it is considered endemic (sp? don't look right).
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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Boomerang
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Member # 7979
posted
I love NM!! We vacationed in Santa Fe and Albuquerque a few years ago. Would love to go back.
We didn't see any ticks.
We did a house rental in Santa Fe for a week, and had a friendly skunk that lived in the back yard. He would just walk around us, while we were sitting out on the patio. It was the strangest thing I'd ever seen.
He never sprayed us, and we never sprayed him.
But we were sure nervous about each other. Posts: 1366 | From Southeast | Registered: Sep 2005
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5dana8
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Member # 7935
posted
my hubby just got back from Utah. He hiked in the middle of the desert there & said there are a fair amount of antalope.
I would think antalope herds carry ticks. He also saw alot of black birds. Tons of them . They nest in the rocky out croppings.
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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We are also a wintering habitat for thousands upon thousands of migratory birds every year.
Of course the NM DOH denies that we have Lyme here as we don't have the right kind of vector here. (as referenced by the 1907-1996 distribution map from the CDC) Last I looked it was 2007. I think we need a new map.
They say we don't have it here so it must be true... right? We do have bart, RMSF, tularemia, WNV and all of that but Lyme?... who knows?
Once I get my wits about me I am determined to find out.. I tell ya that much.
-------------------- ~Ro~
Don't wait for someone to take you under their wing. Find a good wing and climb up underneath it~ Frank C. Bucaro Posts: 80 | From Desert Southwest | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
For what it is worth. Ashamed to say I knew almost nothing about Lyme about 10 years ago when a normally pretty skeptical doctor showed me a classic bulls eye rash on the thigh of a patient. We were in Southwest NM and the patient had recently traveled to Northern NM. His symptoms were classic and it was assumed he contracted Lyme in Northern NM.
Posts: 70 | From AZ | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
PS. Northern Arizona has had RMSF for some time. After the massive Rodeo/Chedesky fires of 2004 the message went out to watch for RMSF, seems the deer and elk populations had migrated south.
In 2005 I saw probably the first 2 cases of RMSF in the human population in Gila county. By years end there was at least one death, and I heard 5 by Mid 2006.
I have also HEARD but not confirmed, that the dog population around Coolidge, AZ almost universally have Babesia.
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Jellybelly
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posted
There are tons of bunnies and Jackrabbits the size of VW bugs in New Mexico. Also lots of coyotes. They can definetly carry ticks. Deer as well. There were deer tracks right up against my house one morning after a fresh snow in Santa Fe.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Jellybelly: There are tons of bunnies and Jackrabbits the size of VW bugs in New Mexico. Also lots of coyotes. They can definetly carry ticks. Deer as well. There were deer tracks right up against my house one morning after a fresh snow in Santa Fe.
Yep.. and I regularly see all three of those critters. The coyotes howl every night within hearing range. They run in front of your car.
The VWrabbits (oh that was so perfect of a description ) eat my bushes and the bark from my trees. We also have the cottontail (we call them fuzzbutts). I see two under the kid's trampoline as we speak.
Deer?... all over the place. I see them at least once a week.
Also skunks, chipmunks, and racoons. Don't even get me started about the mice. And ohhhhh....the prairie dogs! All very common and can be seen from/in my yard or on a short drive to the mailbox.
-------------------- ~Ro~
Don't wait for someone to take you under their wing. Find a good wing and climb up underneath it~ Frank C. Bucaro Posts: 80 | From Desert Southwest | Registered: Nov 2006
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cactus
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posted
I lived in NM for years, and worked and played outside (heck, my work was same as my play and involved distance hiking throughout the SW).
I was (mis)diagnosed with ringworm by a doc in ABQ after an extended trek that included both desert and mountains in NM.
Can't say where I was infected with which bug (have all the usual TBDs plus more), but that bite in '97 was the one that seemed to tip the balance and really take me down.
If that wasn't where I contracted Lyme, it is at the very least where I contracted CO Tick Fever, and I believe it is also where I contracted WA-1 and Bartonella.
There have been outbreaks of tick borne relapsing fever, caused by borrelia hermsii, in NM as recently as 2002: http://tinyurl.com/2v44to
All that said, though, I still feel "safer" from ticks in NM than on the east coast - but that's just my own personal bias toward the SW and my own little state of denial.
Lyme and TBDs are everywhere.
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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![[confused]](graemlins/confused.gif)
....insects, bugs.....in my world they are the same, just bugs. I think you get the point of what he was saying though....don't ya? There are more of what ever species they fit into appearing due to "global warming"..... so he says. You are talking to a lyme brain here ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[hi]](graemlins/hi.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[lol]](graemlins/lol.gif)
) eat my bushes and the bark from my trees. We also have the cottontail (we call them fuzzbutts). I see two under the kid's trampoline as we speak.
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