posted
Hi: I have babesia and chest/sternum tightness. I'm thinking of doing the Zhang babesia protocol.
Has anybody gotten rid of those babesia symptoms through this protocol? Or Lyme disease in general?
Posts: 29 | From NY | Registered: Sep 2007
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luvs2ride
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I have a friend who is using Dr Z. The last time I spoke to her, she was greatly improved. I do not think she has babs.
I'm going to e-mail her today and see how she is doing now. I will post here when she responds.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
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I know MANY people who have done splendidly with the Doc Z Artemisia!!! Including a few peopple who were JUST on it and went into full remission for Babesiosis!! I am the hardest case of Babs I know and that may be because I have a history of malaria as well and may have had liver stages of both bugs- I don't know. I needed 2 years Mepron, the last year on Art as well... But I know people who have kicked babs in ONE month fo Art after having tried other things for months & months already- Just don't overdose because it is bad for brain stem-!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Thanks for the reco. I'll give it a try. Is PlantiBiotic the one?
Thanks, Dave
Posts: 175 | From Colorado | Registered: Feb 2007
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CaliforniaLyme
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Nope- you can call it in- Artemisiae Formula 1-888-788-4372 Doc Zs compnay is called the Hepapro Corp
Some people think Doc Z formula of Artemisiae is stronger than other types but I don't know because it is the only one I ever used. Other people in our local group use NutriCeuticals I think and it has worked great for them!!!
That kind- the kind I didn't use- has grapeseed extarct in it, too- which is anti_lyme- so those are the two main types I know and both seem good- I'm sure others are just as good, too!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
CaliforniaLyme: "Brainstem Damage" sounds frightening! I plan to take the standard dosage recommended by Dr.Z for his Babesia Module:
1 Artemesia Capsule, 3 times per day 2 Allicin Capsules, 3 times per day 1 Circ-P Capsule, 3 times per day
Of course, I plan to start slow, maybe go one-third the above dosage for a month or so and then ramp up to two-thirds in the second month, and then go full dose in the third month.
Has anybody had problems with the standard dosage listed above (I got that straight out of his book).
Posts: 29 | From NY | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
I was on Dr. Z's full Lyme protocol (garlic, Circ P, etc.) for over a year, and added his artemesia sometime during treatment. I am much better but only taking the garlic (1 tab once a day) now because I am better and the smell is overpowering to others.
I have to say tho, that my biggest improvement came not with the artemisia but with Malarone for babs. I didn't test positive, but my LLMD put me on it. Dr. Z said "why when you're on artemisia?", but it was the Malarone that gave me the greatest relief. I stopped all of Dr. Z's herbs but the Allicin while on Malarone.
I still have some slight sweats and some lower back pain, but much improved.
The only thing i'm taking right now is the Allicin, Vit D, fish oil, mag citrate. I stopped the Malarone last week.
Posts: 277 | From NY | Registered: Jun 2005
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savebabe
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I have had great success with Dr Z's art. I have had the night sweats for over a year, but once I started taking his brand, no more sweats.
Posts: 1603 | From ny | Registered: Aug 2006
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CaliforniaLyme
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Doc H did a study with his patietns and separated them into 3 groups-
1. no Babs tx 2. mepron & zith 3. Mepron & zith & Doc Z Art
Category 3 did the best- that is why I trusted it enough to go on it- because there is an LDA video with Doc H on it going over his study/stats-!!! So that was basis for my trying it and since then many locals have with great success- but this may be local variation- who knows!! And other people, some used Doc Z and others used brand NutriCeuticals, didn't seem to make a difference, all have done better with addition of Art-!!!*))!* Nice!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I tried Dr. Z's stuff and it helped for a while but stopped working when I got off it. I find rosner's treatments much more affordable, convenient and generally fitting what I need. My only problem is I can't afford a rife machine so I'm using a friends.
Portland.
[ 22. October 2007, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Jenifer ]
Posts: 31 | From Portland OR | Registered: May 2007
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tdtid
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I've been doing the Zhang protocol for the last 11 months, but with that said, I've been on abx the entire time as well, so it's hard to say what exactly was the ingredient that has given me improvement.
There are so many strains out there and no two people seem to get better at the same rate or when on the same meds, so I guess it's one of those things you have to try and see how it works for you individually.
Wish I could be of more help. Dr. Zhang does have a book out there if you are in need of more information. Good luck.
Cathy
-------------------- "To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006
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Keebler
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To be clear about the brain stem stuff and artem.
I researched this at length and found the source of that to be a very high dose on lab mice only. Studies from VietNam over quite some time showed no effect on brain stem on humans.
I have the stuff in my file, and I should back up my statement with the citations, but that may take a little while
There is more to learn, though. Does anyone else have articles on this?
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
Keebler, it HAS been documented in humans. Some poor woman with breast cancer overdosed herself like crazy because it has done so well anti-breast cancer- and she got toxic brain stem effects- that's just one citation I remember clearly- so don't overdo it people- it IS SAFE at rec'd levels!! heck, licorice can be fatal in high amounts- so can WATER & so can rosemary!!! Just don't OVERDO it!!
1: Ann Neurol. 2005 Nov;58(5):812-3.
Toxic brainstem encephalopathy after artemisinin treatment for breast cancer.
Panossian LA, Garga NI, Pelletier D. PMID: 16240360
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Does anyone have access to the PubMed article listed above? Panossian LA, Garga NI, Pelletier D. PMID: 16240360
If so, would you please post it here. There are no reports of toxic brain stem damage from Artemisinin in humans, from all of the info that I have read.
What all of these articles are refering to are the Artemisinin Derivatives Artemether and Artensuate. This report is most likely the same, judging from the info that I was able to get off of some of the links pertaining to the report. That's my opinion unless someone can post the full article here for review.
And you surely don't have to worry about toxic brain stem damage from the tiny amount of Artemisinin that is in the full herb of Artemesia, which is what this thread is about.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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CaliforniaLyme
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Yup I was on for one whole year no breaks, no days off... On mperon & Zith two years, Art added on for last year of that...
I had quality of life very soon after starting Mepron & Zith & then would backslide a bit and gain and backslide tiny increments but would lose ground if I went off. On Artemisia I stopped backsliding and stayed on until I could go off feeling no changes...
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
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No, you are wrong, it WAS Artemisinin. I have read full text and voila, here t'is!!
Toxic brainstem encephalopathy after artemisinin treatment for breast cancer
Lori A. Panossian, MD,1Nina I. Garga, MD,2Daniel Pelletier, MD2
We describe a patient with reversible ataxia, nystagmus, andslurred speech from artemisinin-induced toxic brainstem encephalopathy.
Artemisinin is a widely used antimalarial drugand new studies are exploring its potential use for cancer treat-ment. Artemisinin toxicity has not been easily demonstrable inhuman trials; however, multiple animal studies clearly establisha selective brainstem neurotoxicity from artemisinin. To ourknowledge, this is the first reported case of human artemisinin toxicity uncomplicated by malarial infection.
Case Report
We report the case of a 42-year-old woman with recently re-sected early breast carcinoma without chemotherapy, present-ing with 3 days of diplopia, dysarthria, and ataxic gait. Hermedications were tamoxifen 20mg and fluoxetine 10mg daily,and 2 weeks of herbal therapy for breast cancer.
The herbs consisted of artemisinin tablets 200mg twice a day, and a daily admixture in pill formulation containing Paeonia alba, Atrac-tylodes alba, Momordica, Cochichinensis, Cudrania, Sophora fla-venisis, and Dioscorea. All medications were discontinued uponhospital admission.
Neurological examination showed conjugatedowngaze and prominent vertical nystagmus, dysarthricspeech, bilateral incoordination of upper and lower limbs, andunsteady wide-based gait. Physical examination was otherwisenormal except for status-post right mastectomy.Brain magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) showed sym-metric punctate foci of T2 signal prolongation (Fig. upperpanel). Laboratory studies were unremarkable, including ce-rebrospinal fluid, vitamin E levels, and rheumatological tests.A workup for a paraneoplastic syndrome was unrevealing,including negative tests for anti-Hu, anti-Yo, anti-Ma2, andanti-Ri antibodies. There was no evidence of stroke, demy-elinating disease, or metastatic mass.After discontinuing artemisinin, there was rapid resolutionof neurological symptoms. A repeat MRI on day 7 showedimprovement in abnormal T2 signal prolongation (see Fig.lower panel). She began again taking tamoxifen and fluoxetinewithout symptom recurrence. Artemisinin, an emerging anti-malarial treatment, is typically well tolerated,1but its potentialneurotoxicity is confounded by the effects of cerebral malarialinfection. There is one reported case of a male patient infectedwith P. falciparum who developed transient cerebellar ataxiaand slurred speech after completing a 5-day course of oral ar-tesunate (an artemisinin derivative).2Brain imaging was notobtained until 3 weeks after the onset of symptoms butshowed no abnormalities.2Animal studies have established a selective brainstem neu-rotoxicity from artemisinin derivatives. Dogs and rats treatedwith high-dose arteether for 14 days exhibit progressiveataxia, with histological evidence of neuronal degenerationand necrosis in the pons, medulla, and spinal cord.3Neuro-nal cell culture experiments confirm selective toxicity in ratbrainstem neurons, but not in cortical neurons or astrocytes,after 7-day exposure to artemisinin.4This case demonstrates a rare instance of artemisinin neu-rotoxicity uncomplicated by malarial infection, and substan-tiated by MRI findings correlating closely with the anatom-ical distribution of brain lesions in animal studies. The otherherbal medications and fluoxetine cannot be implicated,Fig. (top row) Brain magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scan at admission showing symmetric punctate foci of T2 signal prolonga-tion on fluid-attenuated inversion recovery images affecting the bilateral superior colliculi adjacent to the area of the sixth nervenuclei, the periaqueductal gray matter, and the bilateral dentate nuclei of the cerebellum; no contrast enhancement was detected(not shown). Images from the supratentorial brain did not show abnormal signals (slice on the far right). (bottom row) Repeatbrain MRI scan at discharge 1 week later showing almost complete resolution of abnormal T2 signal prolongation.LETTERS812 � 2005 American Neurological AssociationPublished by Wiley-Liss, Inc., through Wiley Subscription Services -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 2 based on a thorough search of the medical literature and apoison control center consultation. Tamoxifen infrequentlycauses reversible neurotoxicity, but only at much higherdoses ( 160mg/m2daily).5Recent investigations into the use of artemisinin com-pounds in cancer treatment6have not been substantiated inclinical trials. Because of pervasive reports of animal brain-stem toxicity, and the gradual emergence of similar patientcases, it becomes imperative to ascertain the safety of pro-longed courses of artemisinin for cancer prophylaxis.1School of Medicine and2Department of Neurology,University of California-San Francisco, San Francisco, CAReferences1. Kissinger E, Hien TT, Hung NT, et al. Clinical and neurophys-iological study of the effects of multiple doses of artemisinin onbrain-stem function in Vietnamese patients. Am J Trop MedHyg 2000;63:48-55.2. Miller LG, Panosian CB. Ataxia and slurred speech after artesu-nate treatment for falciparum malaria. N Engl J Med 1997;336:328-1329.3. Brewer TG, Grate SJ, Peggins JO, et al. Fatal neurotoxicity ofarteether and artemether. Am J Trop Med Hyg 1994;51:251-259.4. Schmuck G, Roehrdanz E, Haynes RK, Kahl R. Neurotoxicmode of action of Artemisinin. Antimicrob Agents Chemother2002;46:821-827.5. Bergan RC, Reed E, Myers CE, et al. A phase II study of high-dose tamoxifen in patients with hormone-refractory prostate can-cer. Clin Cancer Res 1999;5:2366-2373.6. Singh NP, Lai H. Selective toxicity of dihydroartemisinin andholotransferrin toward human breast cancer cells. Life Sci. 2001;70:49-56.DOI: 10.1002/ana.20620Adult Alexander's Disease withoutLeukoencephalopathyFabrizio Salvi, MD, PhD,1Yoko Aoki, MD, PhD,2Riccardo Della Nave, MD,3Alessandra Vella, MD,4Francesca Pastorelli, MD,1Cesa Scaglione, MD,1Yoichi Matsubara, MD,2and Mario Mascalchi, MD, PhD3Diagnosis of Alexander's disease is based on demonstrationof Rosenthal fibers in astrocytes but can be supported bydetection of mutations in the gene encoding the glial fibril-lary acidic protein (GFAP).1,2Three clinical subtypes of Al-exander's disease are identified, namely, infantile, juvenile,and adult, which usually occur sporadically, arising throughde novo mutations.2A 71-year-old man was referred for a complex neurologi-cal syndrome that began at age 52 years with muscle painand unsteady gait. At age 61 years, he developed progressivelower limb weakness, dysarthria, and dysphagia. Neurologicalexamination showed palatal myoclonus, gaze-evoked nystag-mus, cogwheel phenomenon on smooth pursuit, diffuse bra-dykinesia, and dysmethria and bilateral Babinski sign. Mag-netic resonance imaging (MRI; Fig) showed thinning of themedulla and cervical spinal cord and a cross-like hyperinten-sity in the medulla in T2-weighted images. Few small foci ofage-related signal changes were present in the cerebral whitematter. A symmetric T2 hypointensity of the caudate andputamen was present, as well as a line of T2 hypointensityalong the walls of the lateral ventricles and in the anteriorsulcus of the cervical spinal cord. Molecular investigation1showed a C to T substitution at nucleotide 208 in exon 1 ofthe GFAP gene in the heterozygous form resulting in changeof arginine to tryptophan at position 70 (R70W).The prominent MRI finding in our patient was atrophy ofthe medulla and cervical spinal cord. The linear T2 hypoin-tensity along the lateral ventricular walls and in the anteriorsulcus of the spinal cord might be related to accumulation ofRosenthal fibers in these cerebrospinal fluid recesses.3Inter-estingly, small heat shock proteins and ubiquitin, which withGFAP are components of Rosenthal fibers, are increased inthe cerebrospinal fluid of patients with Alexander's disease.3We did not observe any leukoencephalopathy consistent withthe view that Alexander's disease is not an obligate leukodys-trophy; this is in line with adult Alexander's disease casesFig. Axial T2-weighted (TR, 2,400; TE, 100) (A) spin-echoimage shows symmetric hypointensity of the caudate and puta-men and along the lateral ventricular walls without signalabnormality of the periventricular white matter. Sagittal T1-weighted (TR, 500; TE, 14) (B) spin-echo image showsmarked thinning of the medulla and of the upper cervicalspinal cord. Axial T2*-weighted gradient-echo image (TR,500; flip angle, 20 degrees; TE, 25) of the spine at C2 (C)demonstrates dot-like hypointensity (arrow) in the anteriorsulcus of a thinned spinal cord.Annals of Neurology Vol 58 No 5 November 2005 813
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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minoucat
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Artemisinin without abx didn't work at all for us.
We stayed on Z's LD/coinfection protocol for over 8 months -- did the phone consults with him, etc., and the full LD tx that he recommended. Lots of $$ with no return, other than I think it really blasted the candida.
This was 4 years ago, so I don't know if he's changed his formulas.
His liver protection formula (HepaPro, I think) did seem to work well.
Artemesinin did help me, I think, but only in conjunction with Mepron/zith.
Best of luck
-------------------- ********************* RECIDITE, PLEBES! Gero rem imperialem! (Stand aside plebians! I am on imperial business.)
I would take this articles' implications with a grain of salt. There isn't enough information about the patients' use of Art to know for sure what was going on. Certainly there was no brainstem damage, as the article states: After discontinuing artemisinin, there was rapid resolution of neurological symptoms.
It's important to know how long she had been taking Art. Was this her 1st round, or had she been using it for a while? It is possible that she has undiagnosed Babesia (or something else), and that her Sx's were only a herx
It's also possible that the combination of the other herbs mixed with the Art caused an unusual reaction, even though the author of the article states that they had no effect (her opinion - others might disagree with her on that point). Regardless, there was no damage to her brainstem, as the Sx's subsided rapidly upon discontinuation of the Art.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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CaliforniaLyme
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Yup I DID go for a full year with NO BREAKS-
however, just want to say that I am 100% symptom free from Lyme & TBDs and have no discernible DAMAGE (except stay on maintenance abx)
EXCEPT
I have a slight hearing loss evident when I am around other competing sounds, crowds, music, voices... anyway, it does fit the profile of type of hearing loss which could be associated with Artemisia possibly- or Lyme- but my initial hearing problems which CAME WITH LYME- appeared to resolve on Rocpehin- it was only later after Artemisia that this became evident...
So that is why I stress caution I guess, because I wonder if I did overdo it myself-!!! I firmly believe that Artemisia & derivatives are some of the best things you could possibly ingest on this whole planet. I WISH we could get half the state of California to take Artemisia!*)*)!!!!! They need it.
I'm just a worrier when it comes to people. I just want everyone to get well safely*)!*)!)!
Take care, Just woke up,
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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CherylSue
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good info
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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I think Super Artemisinin by Allergy Research is great i use it and it works much better than Artemisinin alone, its taking away my CFS. Heres what they say about it: "Super Artemisinin contains pure Artemisinin, the active constituent of the herb Artemia annua, and Artemisia leaf oil derived from the same plant...Super Artemisinin appears to be substantially more potent, probably due to the synergistic effect of pure Artemisinin and the cell sap (leaf oil). Additionally, in Chinese medicine terms, Super Artemisinin is not as cooling as Artemisinin alone, and is likely to be more balanced for broad use."
-------------------- jeremy Posts: 71 | From new york city | Registered: Sep 2011
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annxyzz
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Californialyme , what is the exact name of the product that you mentioned that was helpful to your lyme/ Babs friends?
Can you provide more info, such as how much (dosage ) and how long they took it ?
I am self treating , like so many others, and any progress others make that is affordable and safe is EXTREMELY USEFUL .
Thanks to all sharing here. This info is helpful.
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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manybites
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posted
Yes caution in artemisin as I have some hearing loss due to herxes and back than there was not much of warning now the newbies should know that when a ring start back off and detox until the herx is over than you can continue without the permanent herxes.
Posts: 1379 | From disable | Registered: Aug 2011
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ktkdommer
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We take artemesia 2 by Zhang after reading a Schaeller article that he wrote with Zhang and that people need more to kill babesia. We are on it 10 days a month. Previously we did just artemesia by Zhang and had to slowly ramp up. Now onl one of us herxes on artemesia 2. My boys are on malarone and coartem also. My babesia number is at 17 with below 10 being normal. I am almost there with a year of Zhang.
-------------------- Things are never dull. After 3 fighting Lyme, 2 are in remission. Youngest is still sick, age 22. He has new diagnosed Chiari Malformation and Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. Posts: 1366 | From Perrysburg, Ohio | Registered: Nov 2010
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