Michelle M
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Member # 7200
posted
Over the past year I have been rear ended twice while stopped. This has resulted in severe shoulder pain and eventual inability to raise my arms or put them behind my back. My LLMD opined I might have "frozen shoulder."
Due to unpleasantness with the other insurance companies, including the sudden declarations of the other driver that she wasn't driving after all!!! -- I retained an attorney. My LLMD referred me to an orthopedic specialist for further care.
In the meantime, my attorney's office burned to the ground.
A delay of several months followed, in which his files were carefully reconstructed by fire reconstruction specialists.
Thereafter, the orthopaedic specialist Dr. Lange was critically injured in a small plane crash.
I swear I am not making any of this up.
MONTHS later, I finally secured a new appointment with a different orthopaedic specialist. By this time, my shoulder pain was so bad I could hardly complete any of the in-office tests.
I finally got an MRI done last week -- the worst 20 minutes of my life.
I have a rotator cuff tear with abnormal fluid in my subacromial something or another. The pain is unreal - I cannot sleep at night.
Has anyone had one of these? Has surgery made it better? Should I ask for a sample of the fluid to be tested at IGeneX? Could lyme be making this worse? (I am not treating currently except for Minocycline 200mg per day).
Anyone's experience with this would be most appreciated!!!
TIA,
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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luvs2ride
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posted
Years ago a horse yanked back on the lead rope really hard and wrenched my shoulder. The resulting pain was in the forearm, not the shoulder itself.
It wouldn't go away and finally I went to an orthopedic doctor who said the rotator cuff was injured but not yet enough to do surgery. He was sure I would eventually have to have it surgically repaired.
That was 1995. The injury resolved and I have never had trouble with it since. In Aug 05 when lyme arthritis hit, my shoulders (both) were severely affected as well as almost every joint in my body. The pain was not the same as with the rotator cuff injury.
I don't think Lyme caused your damage but rather the accident did. Even though I personally have not had the surgery, I was a claims adjuster for 10 yrs and handled many, many such accidents.
I can't recall a single case where surgery did not result in 100% improvement. I would have known if it did, because I would have had to pay permanent partial disability settlement.
I hope that is some encouragement to you.
What a bizarre set of circumstances you had.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
My right shoulder is hurting right now probaly take a month or 6 to go away.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
Thanks Luvs - that's very encouraging... I have read it's normally a VERY successful surgery. I am glad yours is better. I have read that small tears can heal themselves whereas larger ones tend to just get worse with time. Mine has been getting worse for 9 months with no signs of letting up and I am pretty much ready to holler "Uncle."
I do think it might be a good opportunity to get hold of some joint fluid to test for Bb, however. Since I know it likes to sequester there.
Tree, what is wrong with your right shoulder?
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
Lyme is the problem its the first time in the right shoulder thats the good one, left shoulder I tore up in football it dosent hurt. Good ole dull ache and piches real bad when I lift it or rotate it thats the right shoulkder. Iam on minocin again and it seems to stir up alot of stuff right bknee statrted to hurt again hadnt hurt since last time guess what I was on then minocin. hahaha
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Just Julie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1119
posted
Hey Michelle, my husband (who is positive for Lyme, but refuses to treat) had a shoulder injury a few years back. Being a nurse, I wanted him to get seen by an ortho doc asap, but he put it off.
By the time he did go in to have it evaluated, the pain had increased substantially (he builds elevators in the city) and I was beside myself with worry, as he owns his own company, and had no one to replace himself with to do the physical work!
I insisted at his 2nd or 3rd orthopedic doc appt. that he have an MRI to determine if the rotator cuff was torn, and to what extent. They wanted him to try physical therapy FIRST, but all the research I had come across for this type injury indicated that if the cuff was torn (not just injured) and he did do physical therapy FIRST, he could make the tear worse!
After the docs finally listened to my case (I felt like a lawyer in there) they did schedule the MRI, due to his crappy HMO insurance, it took 2 months to get him in. He continued to have pain, and could not really sleep either, or use the arm.
Well, the MRI did show a tear, he did have surgery to fix it, and from what he says now, it feels fine.
I hate HMO's!
I'd guesstimate that surgery is what you're looking at . . .
-------------------- Julie Posts: 1027 | From Northern CA | Registered: May 2001
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
Tree, I'm so sorry you're suffering. I've been lucky in that my lyme has always been neuro -- no joint stuff. (Knocks wood...)
Julie, sounds like you were a real powerhouse for your hubby!! You go!! I wish I even HAD insurance; however, I cannot get insurance anywhere due to having had lyme disease. Get denied over and over!!
Fortunately, my ortho doc told me already that rehab would be a waste of time since I was in too sorry a state.
I have three more weddings to get through before the end of the year. I have to eat, so I have been taking copious amounts of Advil and Aleve. After December 1, I could take a couple months off, which I hope would be enough time to recover? It's very encouraging to hear about 100% recoveries. Thanks!!!
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
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Member # 7136
posted
My husband has had two RC surgeries, one each shoulder, my brother has had one!!! All 3 were successful but all 3 needed physical therapy and had months of recuperation- my brother used pain pills to deal with it and got very grumpy- my husband didn't and just used anti-inflammatories-
Sorry to read that- no fun!!! Best wishes, Sarah
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Michelle M
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Member # 7200
posted
EEek, Sarah, a double!! I am hoping to avoid that and hoping the left shoulder at least is not bad enough for surgery. I can raise it a little!! I hate pain pills as I'm already about halfway a zombie anyway about midday without a Provigil... I'll do anything to avoid taking a pain pill, plus Vicodin and the like usually just make me anyway!!
Will find out an official "plan" from surgeon on Friday.
Fingers crossed much!!
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Sorry to hear that you are in so much pain.
I know wxactly how you feel.
When in college I hurt my shoulder while serving in volleyball. I waited way too long to go to the doctor and the one I went to was worthless.
I did not have an MRI(unheard of in our small town hosp back then and very spendy)
They sent me home to do some small exercises on my own to build it up. It took well over 2 years to get to the point that I could do normal daily chores and routines.
To this day - I still have moderate pain when doing physical farm work and I can't put my arms behind my back to scratch or put on a bra.
I should have had surgry and will pay the price the rest of my life - Thanks Doc!
I would opt for surgery if you can, it will pay off in years to come.
-------------------- Those who say it can't be done, should get out of the way of those who are doing it! Posts: 34 | From South Dakota | Registered: Sep 2007
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
Yes- BUT my husbands shoulders have fully recovered are fully useful and he has no pain with them*)!*)! He is very glad he went through with the surgeries-!! My brothers was about a year ago now and he is a grumpy sort of person in general (a lawyer) and he complains a lot that his shoulder still does have pain- but I personally tihnk he is overly sensitized due to all those painkillers... which he STILL takes! CRossing my toes for you too*)!*)!! Sincerely, Sarah
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Because our immune system works differently at injury sites, Bb is able to get a better foothold at them, and then it can create chronic inflammation.
Since surgery is a type of injury in itself, there is added risk for the lyme patient. Of course, the benefits may still outweigh the risks.
I've been dealing with a frozen shoulder too. Some doctors recommended surgery, but a sports medicine chiropractor suggested I first try his treatment. After a few months the pain diminished enough that I could once again sleep on that side. After about a year, daily stretching exercises have greatly improved the range of motion.
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Michelle M
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Pam S: To this day - I still have moderate pain when doing physical farm work and I can't put my arms behind my back to scratch or put on a bra.
I feel for you, Pam -- my daughter has to help me in/out of my clothes at times and I really hate asking for help. I know what you mean about farm work; I live on 5.5 acres and trying to get a bale of alfalfa out of my truck with a torn rotator cuff produces some fairly shocking language which I hope my horse will not repeat!!!!
You might still have an ortho consultation; there is a surgical "smoothing" procedure that can be done, I think, to the humeral head of the shoulder which might greatly reduce pain and increase range of motion. Check it out!!
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I have not made time to read all of above thread but feel compelled to chime in.
I had what WAS diagnosed as a POSSIBLE mild rotator cuff impingement last year, and actually ended up receiving a cortisone injection in right bursa...this was before any of the lyme relapse started.
About a month after starting treatment (zithro) this last summer my right shoulder went absolutely ape****....it now hurts much worse than it ever did before and affects my movement much more drastically.
I should put in here that I had MRIs on shoulder, neck, and back (thoractic) and that all showed 'something' but none appeared to correllate with severity of symptoms. Oh yah I also had one done on brain but that's another issue.
I have been thru weeks of PT before he finally gave up on me..I did all the exercises and stretchs etc that was asked and was doing a ton of IBU etc, he said it should have responded but appeared to be some other force at work...guess what that might be.
To add to the fun I had a pre-lyme diagnosis of moderate C6 and T8 disc herniation, back then they thought that was causing my nerve issues.
No one has been able to answer my question...did lyme cause the injuries in the first place, or just make existing injuries much much much worse? I had never had ANY disc problems etc prior to this year, and I am a very active 44 year old distance runner.
OK I guess that's enuf said for now...below is partial list of symptoms.
extreme pain right rotator cuff (sleep near impossible)
nerve pain (stabbing and shooting) eyes, face, most of body
tremors worse in left side
trouble concentrating and executing routine tasks
word block, degeneration of spelling, typing, vocabulary
trouble swallowing, lazy tongue sensation
pain & tenderness right Achilles tendon
double vision, painful eyes, difficulty driving
extreme fatigue , mood swings, depression,
neck and back pain, disc herniation
LM
Posts: 212 | From Eastern CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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AZURE WISH
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 804
posted
I had fallen and had made tears in stuff in my arm/shoulder (more then one area so cant remember what the things where called but defintiely ligaments)
I went to the chiro practor... he did therapy on it (firt a machine like a tens unit and then an ultrasound and it is healed now)
I dont get any pain in the side I had injured that I dont get in the uninjured side.
I hope this post is coherent enough. So sorry if it isnt.
goodness lady, you've been keeping this all to yourself this long! murphy's law has hit you bad too...so sorry to read this.
mom had surgery on her frozen shoulder since she did housework for a living; she was happy with results and followed exercises of raisin milk gallon with water. in fact, empty milk gallon would go on vacaionns with her so she could do them while enjoying scenic sights!
i've had bad rotator problems all this year where i couldn't sleep on my right side where pain was.
after my hip surgery pt WAS OVER, I HAD HER WORK ON ROTATOR CUFF; with exercises it made it work for me and very LITTLE pain at present.
Michelle M
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Member # 7200
posted
DGuy, I agree that for frozen shoulder, I would exhaust every possible remedy before surgery. I am glad you are having a good outcome.
LocalMan, you sound to have a pretty bad case of neurological lyme; I hope you have a good LLMD. Lyme can actually cause demyelination of the sheathing covering the nerves just as MS does, causing severe pain and numbness and in fact mimicking MS. It can get into disk and joint spaces. Your symptoms sound like you need some aggressive treatment!! Don't give up, the neuro stuff (or at least MUCH of it) can get better.
Azure, I'm so glad your chiro could help you!! They really CAN help in many cases! I tried my chiro, whom I adore, initially. However, he really could not help and in fact misdiagnosed me as having a strain of the coracobrachialis. I think it was just out of his league. I think they CAN help a lot if there is not a large tear; however, it appears a tear usually gets worse and not better, as by its nature it involves at least 50% of the rotator cuff.
Betty, I love your mom's diligence with her milk containers!! I vow I will be diligent too, and dutifully exercise with big Nikon cameras!!!
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Wow. I never thought about a wreck causing this!! I have a bad left shoulder, and my right is beginning to act up too.
I had a very bad wreck 9 yrs ago and had a pretty bad whiplash. [totalled my car] I don't recall my shoulders hurting then, but I bet they were damaged.
I had an MRI about 2 yrs ago and the ortho dr wanted to give me a steroid shot and I said no thanks.
He said I had the impingement and was "working on" a rotator cuff tear.
All I have to say Michelle is that I can only imagine the pain you are experiencing. I can't do much with my left arm, but I'm not nearly as bad as you are!!!!!
My sister-in-law had rotator cuff surgery and she is fine now. The recovery was very tough, but once she got through it, she was a happy camper!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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kam
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 3410
posted
Yes.
haven't read your post or the post of the others.
but, yes to your question.
It was one of the symptoms that several of us at work had.
one lady was about two weeks before I was told I had the problem.
I thought..this can't be right.
She had surgery and I looked for other answers.
That was about 5 or 6 years ago.
It was will looking for answers for our symptoms.
haven't had the problem since.
I did not go for the surgery.
Posts: 15927 | From Became too sick to work or do household chores in 2001. | Registered: Dec 2002
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bettyg
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posted
michelle, loved your comment about lugging all those cameras around instead of mom's milk jugs!!
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
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quote:Originally posted by Michelle M: Tree, I'm so sorry you're suffering. I've been lucky in that my lyme has always been neuro -- no joint stuff. (Knocks wood...)
Michelle
Once you injure or have a weakend area ie like your shoulder lyme makes it worse. Its like they the spirochetes like injured areas maybe what the body does trying heal is the reason the the joint pain flares?
I have had it in different places all over knees elbows fingers feet it jumps around I had it in my right elbow like almost a year it sucked. I was on abx's the whole time it went from just sore to couldnt even touch it to absolutly nothing one day then the next right back to feeling like you hit it with a sledge hammer.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
TuTu, trauma accounts for about 10% of cuff injuries! Who'da thunk? Weirdly, my worst arm STILL presents as a searing muscle spasm in my shoulder blade (or my "chicken wing," as I call it..) The actual shoulder itself is not that tender. Go figure.
My LLMD has been following me (I beg him to be my GP too, in a pinch!) and has OK'd a cortisone shot directly into the joint, though the ortho guy says they have not proven to be all that helpful.
Here's something funny.
Going over medical history with ortho guy at first appointment...
He sees "lyme disease."
Eyes widen....
"Lyme disease... In California?????"
And this is a YOUNG doctor!!
I very nicely read him off the facts and figgers!!
He was quite taken aback!
But in his defense, he added, 'But hey, I'm just an ortho guy, I don't know anything about lyme disease!'
I said, 'Yeah, you'd have probably sent your patient to a neuro, who knows even LESS about lyme disease!! Ha ha!'
We got along really well and this was all in a good, bantering fashion...so he might have actually learned something!!
Appointment is actually today, not Friday. So hopefully news this afternoon!!
Thanks for everyone's support. One-armed hugs at y'all!!!
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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Truthfinder
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posted
Good grief, Michelle - that is quite a story.
My ex-boyfriend's rotator cuff surgery is scheduled in December (motorcycle crash the first of August).
He has talked to several people who have had the surgery, and all are very glad they had it. And he also found out which nearby ortho docs were the best at shoulder surgeries, since rotator cuff injuries are a little trickier than most.
As someone else mentioned, though, be aware that recovery can be rough. I've heard that about the best way to try to sleep after the surgery is in a recliner, at least for awhile.
I'm glad you have retained an attorney - hopefully, the surgery and necessary PT will be paid for by ``the other guy's'' insurance, but I'm sure you will have to fight to get that to happen.
Like you, I would be VERY tempted to get a sample of tissue or fluid sent off to Igenex for testing. Even if I had to pay for that part myself - just to satisfy my own curiosity. And of course, all of us here would be interested in your results, too.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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trueblue
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Member # 7348
posted
Michelle, I only skimmed most of the posts here (in this thread).
I feel your pain, ugh. I was diagnosed with lysis of the A/C (acromioclavicular) joint shortly after being diagnosed with lyme. I was told not to lift my arm over my head. Hah, as if I could. I was given exercizes that helped slightly. (Oh, this was after a friend that was a PT, released the frozen shoulder.)
I started doing stuff with my left arm and that developed the same problem (only not quite as severe).
So I had MRIs done and they showed the same thing happening to the other shoulder and one had a partial tear of the rotator cuff.
Somewhere in there, prior to the MRIs also had a rear end collision and bad whiplash.
This junk has been going on for a whole lot of years and tends to wax and wane but I have to limit what I do with my right arm, especially.
I started seeing an Ostepath recently. He is doing Osteopathic Manipulation and trigger point injections on me for a bunch of pain issues. The injections I'm getting are not cortisone... Lidocaine and Serrapin (pitcher plant)
I've had a few places injected and last week he did the right shoulder (the points for the rotator cuff). Oh, my, it hurt for a few days and the first day coudln't use my arm at all. But... It actually helped!!!
I was only able to put my right arm behind my back to my waist. I can now reach to the bottom of my shoulder blades. I'm blown away! I haven't been able to do that in 14 years.
Anyway, long story even longer... He tells me it will take 2 or 3 more sets of shots to that area but thinks we can make it work.
I'm just thinking it might be something to check into. He's working on the whole body but I am getting some relief for the first time in years, even if there's a long way to go.
I'm of the mind, if I might be able to achieve the same thing without steriods or surgery...
I hope you get some relief soon. PM me if you're interested. I'm pretty sure I saved the website to find an Ostopath that does this type of work. This guy's right down the road from my house.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Michelle M: My LLMD has been following me (I beg him to be my GP too, in a pinch!) and has OK'd a cortisone shot directly into the joint, though the ortho guy says they have not proven to be all that helpful.
I wouldn't do that if I were you! Too many Lyme horror stories on that!!
That's cute about the ortho!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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