posted
I have not heard that A and D are stripped from cod liver oil, the oil is distilled from the livers of cod, but I have heard that D fortified CLO has an added D, which could be ergocalciferol. Also, there is a lanolin or wool oil derived D and the bioactivity of that is suspect in my experience. Vitamin D should transfer from cow to udder to milk in the way that it moves from mother to breast to milk in humans but it has to be in the mother to begin with. A vitamin D deficient mother to be will birth a vitamin D deficient baby.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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This is the cod liver oil I use - I find it most excellent. If you compare the Vit D and A you get from this completely natural cod liver oil you will notice there is a substantial difference in the levels of A and D that you get from most commercial cod liver oils. I got most of my Vit D in the summer from sun (I was careful not to over do it)
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
I see your point about NK cell levels versus activity, DocL - thanks for clarifying.
dguy, I have to disagree that it is a ``logical conclusion'' to assume that Vitamin D is acting like a true steroid when inflammation/ pain is reduced. Apparently, part of your conclusion is based upon the increased herx effect when Vitamin D intake is minimized, and I've never subscribed totally to the `herxing indicates Bb is being killed' theory, or that most unpleasant effects from treatment constitute ``herxing'', or even that one must ``herx'' in order to get well from a bacterial infection.
And especially since stopping D supplementation alone can cause discomfort. I'm not on antibiotics or any other drugs for Lyme, nor have I ever been. The supplements I am currently taking have never caused a herx before adding Vitamin D, so we can't say I am ``herxing'' because I stopped taking Vitamin D.
If having pain and feeling lousy constitute a herx, then we were all in a herx state before we were ever diagnosed. I'm not sure we can attribute those symptoms solely to die-off as opposed to what the organism itself is doing to us.
DocL and Oxygenbabe make specific points about this, and I have my own theories founded in different systems of medicine.
If my logic is flawed here, I'm sure someone will be happy to point that out.
Furthermore, we have not even considered the botulin-like toxin Bb creates as a product of its own metabolism, and what role that toxin plays in reactions to treatment, including the `herx' effect. You can't ``kill'' a toxin.
Oxygenbabe, thanks for pointing out the issue about most commercial cold liver oil. I did notice that on the Carlson Fish Oil I give my dog, it says right on the bottle that it is ``Vitamin A and D free''. I did sort of expect at least a bit of Vitamin A in there........
Oh, BTW, after 3 calls to Labcorp, my doc's office figured out that they can do the CD-57 test for me. They have to order some additional blood tubes, so it will be at least a week. Meanwhile, I guess I'll cut way down on the Vitamin D3 until then (at an attempt to get a `baseline' test), and I'm not looking forward to reducing the D3, let me tell you.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Vitamin D may not reduce cancer deaths By LAURAN NEERGAARD, AP Medical Writer 1 hour, 52 minutes ago
A large new study found no sign that vitamin D lowers the overall risk of dying from cancer, injecting a note of caution to the latest vitamin craze. The exception: People with more vitamin D in their blood did have a significantly lower risk of death from colorectal cancer, supporting earlier findings.
Getting enough of the so-called sunshine vitamin -- the skin makes it from ultraviolet rays -- is vital for strong bones. But vitamin D has made headlines in recent years because of research saying it may be a powerful cancer fighter, sparking a push for people to get more than currently recommended amounts, either through diet or sun exposure.
The first-of-a-kind government study released Tuesday shows the issue is far from settled.
National Cancer Institute researchers analyzed vitamin D levels measured in almost 17,000 people as part of a national study that tracked their health. About a decade after enrolling, 536 of those people had died of cancer. Whether people had low or high vitamin D levels played no role in their risk of dying from cancer in general, they reported Tuesday in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute.
Then the researchers examined different types of cancer. There were just 66 deaths from colorectal cancer. Still, people with high levels of vitamin D appeared 72 percent less likely to die of colorectal cancer than people with the lowest vitamin D levels.
"While vitamin D may well have multiple benefits beyond bone, health professionals and the public should not, in a rush to judgment, assume that vitamin D is a magic bullet and consume high amounts," Johanna Dwyer, a dietary supplement specialist at the National Institutes of Health, cautioned in an accompanying editorial.
Indeed, there are numerous risk factors for colorectal cancer, including obesity and low physical activity, and it's unclear if low vitamin D levels play an independent role or are just a marker for those other risks, she said.
Scientists have been interested in vitamin D's effects for decades, since noticing that cancer rates between similar groups of people were lower in sunny southern latitudes than in northern ones. A handful of studies since then have found people given vitamin D supplements have less risk of developing certain cancers, but much of the evidence is circumstantial.
Experts are cautious because other vitamins and nutrient supplements once widely thought to prevent cancer didn't pan out when put to rigorous testing.
The NCI's study is the first to compare blood levels of vitamin D to cancer mortality, and "it's the best research we have on this topic," said Dr. Len Lichtenfeld of the American Cancer Society.
But a big weakness: It measured vitamin D at just one point in participants' lives, when levels can vary widely with dietary changes and especially the seasons.
Overall, most research "seems to be pointing in the direction that there is a role of vitamin D," Lichtenfeld said. Tuesday's study "puts a note of caution in there that says with all the explosion of information and advocacy on behalf of vitamin D, we need to be cautious. ... We really need some further studies that are well done to answer the question."
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
In regards to the previous post "Vitamin D may not reduce cancer deaths." It is my understanding there was a significant flaw in the study because the researchers only measured Vit D levels one time. Vitamin D levels fluctuate significantly so a one time measurement is not enough to draw any substantive conclusions.
"What is Cod Liver Oil? Cod liver oil is thin, pale-yellow oil that was originally made from the fresh livers of codfish. Today the standards allow for an incredible amount of variation and ``cheating'' among manufacturers. Unfortunately, any fish oil can be ``manufactured'' into cod liver oil as long as it meets certain basic criteria. Yes, cod liver oil can actually come from many different varieties of fish and often does. In order to be called cod liver oil, the requirement is that the oil must be from fish (any oily fish), be at or above certain vitamin A and vitamin E levels, and contain certain minimum levels of DHA and EPA. This means synthetic and/or natural vitamins are often added to concentrated fish oils (which are cheaper and easier to obtain than cod liver oil), and the oil is then sold as cod liver oil. Hence, today, much of the ``cod liver oil'' that is purchased by unsuspecting consumers is not really coming from the livers of codfish and is very likely not the product researchers such as Dr. Weston A. Price used in the early 1900's. Most cod liver oil is actually a mixture of oils from the livers of cod and other fish with vitamins added. Some cod liver oil manufacturers actually decrease the vitamin A content and then add synthetic vitamin A back to reach the values listed on their supplement facts panel. Most, if not all, manufacturers (other than Wilderness Family Naturals) molecularly distill their cod liver oil and add soy-based tocopherols and/or synthetic vitamin E, as well as synthetic vitamin A and D. This, unfortunately, is true even if the added items are not listed on the label."
I must admit I've learned so much about agribusiness, and even the lies in the organic food business, that I wouldn't necessarily trust a website. I'd have to call myself. For instance, I'm almost certain just from reading WFN website that they do NOT manufacture the oil, they are repackaging it from someone else. I'll call and find out. If it's true cod liver oil it's still valid.
Take olive oil. Turns out that it's often adulterated with unhealthy oils that are much cheaper, and then chlorophyll is added in to give it color. I had wondered in recent years why the olive oil didn't taste as good. Then the New Yorker did a big expose. They make as much money as in cocaine trafficking. So I use bionature. I specifically called the company and spoke to them about the article and asked about their growers and was satisfied.
Edit: I did just call them. They had a manufacturer who was doing it to their specifications, where they did not add in any vitamins, just used the real cod liver oil, and they were spot testing it and they felt the quality had degraded (z polite way of saying the source began to cheat/cut corners). So they are looking around for a new source and believe they've found one but for now they do not have real cod liver oil and in fact nobody else in this country probably does.
To the one using dr. ron's--it's just fish oil with vitamins added. Its a lot of marketing hype and hooey and he's more a businessman than a doctor as far as I'm concerned.
Eventually WFN will have real cod liver oil, maybe sometime in the next few months, once the deal is stabilized. They sound like a very trustworthy company.
Those buying expensive cod liver oils could get very cheap vitamin a and d supplements at their corner CVS.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Thank you very kindly, Oxygenbabe. I'm sure very few people know what you have just explained, and how would they!
Good grief.
For 9 years, I gave my dog a small amount of canned mackerel every day. He had a beautiful, shiny black coat. Then he developed a couple of odd health problems, and I became worried about Mercury issues and quit the mackeral, deciding finally to give a bit of fish oil every day to combat the effects of our dry climate.
I may go back to using the canned mackerel. Near as I can tell, there are still real fish in the can.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Dave6002
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posted
As other pointed out that Vitamin D is very different from other vitamins, in that VD in directly involved in gene regulation.
Therefor too much or too little may cause dyregulation of genes, leading to malfunction of the cell.
As the editor pointed out VD is not a magic bullet.
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
There's no shortage of evidence from many sources: googling
"vitamin D" steroid
generates over 1 million results.
An Occam's razor club could be helpful, but perhaps a more pun-appropriate name for what so many of us have experienced from the medical field would be the "Duck club":
Bioactive vitamin D is a steroid. Steroids are often used to supress the immune system. When I take vitamin D, it acts on me just like a steroid. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006
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You aren't clear about just how it acts on you, but it seems from previous posts that you feel better when you go on it then worse again when you go off. Since it is the one hormone in our system that under normal circumstances we can manipulate to a higher level by being outdoors in the sun more, and can force to a lower level by using sunscreen and or avoiding sun, if you feel better on it you should stay on it or consciously try to get more sunshine, or both.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Dguy, once again (you've ignored my point so far) steroid is *not* synonymous with glucocorticoid even though it seems to be in your mind, as you are equating all steroid hormones with immune suppression.
It doesn't seem to matter what research others cite.
The steroid hormone signalling system is ancient--you find it in everything from nitrogen fixing bacteria to mollusks to humans.
Estrogen and progesterone are steroid hormones. So are glucocorticoids--and that's what you mean when you say "steroids are often used to suppress the immune system."
You don't mean estrogen, now do you? No, you mean cortisone.
Just because you feel better on Vitamin D does not mean its suppressing healthy immune function, to the contrary from all the evidence you can find in a search of the scientific and clinical literature it seems to increase immune function.
Try to stop using the word steroid as equivalent with immune suppressing. Try to remember there are five steroid hormones and Vitamin D is now considered in *some ways* to be analagous to a sixth, though it is not strictly such.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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