In the beginning it was obvious I had Lyme and babs ... I had night sweats, heart palpitations, and air hunger. I responded well to the treatment of both.
My cognitive symptoms and GI symptoms did not improve at all. So, we did some more testing and discovered bacterial dysbiosis and I started Cipro. Once off the Cipro, I started herbs for the dysbiosis.
I felt GREAT on the Cipro! But I declined when I got off it. I was clinically diagnosed a couple months later with Bartonella, and greatly improved with bart treatment.
So, we figured things out as we went along by my symptoms and their response to treatment.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
Hi Wiser,
These are really good questions. With tests for all of these being so poor, and with an overlap in symptoms, that is why many folks recommend treating for all three if you have TBDs.
What I have gathered from the last year plus of treatment and reading lymenet is that babs is prob associated with the heart palpitations and shortness of breath that I have had; lyme with the memory issues and joint pain, and possibly bart and/or lyme with emotional issues. But lyme also can cause the cardiac and emotional symptoms.
Since babs often comes with the distinctive night sweats, it seems easier to tell apart from lyme and bart.
Lymetoo often posts lists of symptoms associated with each disease if you search in medical.
Lately I have been thinking of the TBDs in our area as including a big unknown cluster of pathogenic bacteria and viruses. There has been so little research in this area, and ticks on southern LI where I had one of my tick bites have also been found to carry diseases like Q fever, Powassan virus, and who knows what else? That is one reason why treatment can take so long and needs to be varied.
Take care and happy holidays!
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
I agree with everyone- it can be so individual-
for me Babs was late afternoon sudden fatigue -almost narcoleptic in nature- would get hit by fatigue suddenly and have to go to sleep right then sometimes while in middle of sentence- and arthritis & swelling in my hands & Raynaudes
for me Bart was burning spots and chronic lowgrade fever and chronic sinus drip alos knifelike stabbing pains in eyes and top of head
HME Ehrlichiosis was Irritable Bowel Syndrome and 104 fevers and DEEP BONE PAIN
Lyme was fibromyalgia and progressive muscular weakness and lots more stuff
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
babs has been explained pretty well - air hunger, night sweats etc..
Bart seems to cause sore soles of the feet and palms of the hands, muscle burning, GI problems. Can cause sarcoid type growths or lumps under the skin along with stretch mark looking rashes and other rashes too.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
"Wiser for it" asked for the hallmark difference between Lyme disease alone, or Lyme with coinfections or candida.
In my opinion, the hallmark difference is in the degree of illness (with exceptions).
It is extremely difficult to tell the symptoms apart from Lyme and coinfections because of overlap in symptoms and that manifistation of symptoms varies from person to person.
However, the sicker you are, the more likely it is that you have a coinfection.
If you have been treated for Lyme disease and you didn't get better or quickly relapsed, you likely have a coinfection.
I had Lyme disease for several years before I got infected with babesiosis in 2003. I immediately went from somewhat functioning, to not functioning at all. I did get a few new symptoms, but the big difference was in the intensity of my already existing symptoms. Therefore, I can't tell you which symptom is due to which infection, because the infections work together attacking my body.
For example, Babesia clearly is associated with nightsweat, but I already had nightsweats before I got babesia. They just got a lot worse after I got babesia.
Posts: 187 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I really like to see this information since I am living it and trying to figure out what is attacking me on a daily basis.
I agree..the babs is night sweats as a hallmark. Although I think my bad night sweats are gone and I still have babs to some degree. Now I have wicked cold spells?
For me, the thing I really want to get rid of is the buring skin all over my body. I have not seem much impact with the 29 days of Rocephin so far. I also have the sore soles of my feet so I wonder if I have the Bartonella also.
We should do a survey to see who responded to what drug for what symptom? espcially since our blood tests stink.
Posts: 422 | From CT | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
sixgoofykids, vermonter, california, terryk, walnut and monica
thank you all for writing about your experiences with the TBDS versus Lyme.
My experience so far has been that Lyme initially caused overall body aches, sore throat, profound weakness, chest aching and stabbing pains that rotated around my body. In addition, I had lots of floaters and balance problems. Now things have lessened, but arthritic symptoms have increased.
The babs, I think, is responsible for the night sweats, chills, balance problems and sleepiness...and air hunger/apnea. This is validated lately as I increase my Malarone and many of these symptoms resurface. Each time I start Zithromax, bad/depressing dreams intensify, sleep is interrupted and I feel really cranky and depressed.
I am wondering about Bart since my feet/shins have hurt alot since starting the Babs treatment. i think one co- takes advantage of the other co- treatment to come on stronger.
Other than the Amox/malarone/zith combo, I haven't really grabbed the Bart with a concerted effort yet. Grappling with herxes and digestive upsets is enough for now.
Your replies together were really clarifying and helpful. I have almost all of what each of you mentioned. Thankfully, it is changing... albeit slowly....
I read in another post that sometimes one's body just can't handle detoxing all the junk coming from the die-off of spirochetes. I think this is why I have to increase dosages incrementally and slower than I wish I could. Trying detox methods wipes me out beyond the herxing issues, so I plod along doing the best I can... like all of us!
Thankyou all once more for a terrific showing on this post. Ever so helpful!
Best,
wiserforit
Posts: 508 | From Banks of the Hudson | Registered: Jul 2006
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
This is a hard one because I had the classic symptoms of Babs (air hunger, heart palps, night sweats), but those have gotten immensely better since treating my Bart and Lyme (all other co-infection tests came back negative), so it is very confusing for me too! I don't know if that means my Bart was those symptoms or the Lyme was those symptoms -- or if it means I have Babs but it's hiding while treating this other stuff??? Just don't know.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Help me here...tell me Air Hunger is real and not from stress. I have this enough during very weird times that I know it is not from stress. Gosh, I wish I could just sleep one night. I wonder if the zithromax contributes to my horrific nightmares also. I am on day 30 of the IV...praying it will kick in soon!
For some reason my lovely jaw pain is back in full swing also...? Can the LLMD put me on something else for the babs now while on IV and zith or will I explode...?
Posts: 422 | From CT | Registered: Oct 2007
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
My jaw pain is definitely babs related.
Air hunger, night sweats, balance issues, bruising, nausea, chills also.
It seems when you target one infection another one comes out.
I went to bed the last three nights shivering.
It has been pretty cold here for Louisiana and we keep the thermostat at 66 at night.
Waking up drenched with sweat.
I guess I am in for another round of babs treatment.
I just wish there was one class of meds that could address ALL co-infections and Lyme.
Of course if wishes were money, I'd be disgustingly, filthy rich.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Thanks Geneal, I think my jaw pain is also babs. I know, we need a chart of antibiotics for all things..LYME and co-infections. There was a good one posted but it did not include co-infections.
Posts: 422 | From CT | Registered: Oct 2007
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