posted
Any suggestions for trying to stay sane against the stacked deck that against us. I have always been a peaceful person with very low bp. The
more I fight for treatment and understanding, the more unsettled I become. I can snap at any- thing anymore. My blood pressure is on the rise
and I'm not pleasant much anymore. I take refuge in humor and sarcasm or I'd just be a basketcase crying all the time. Can anyone relate?
I find myself reciting that poem, Do not go gentle into that good night... Rage, rage (got that rage part down pat) Thanks in advance for any input.
Posts: 111 | From Pa | Registered: Oct 2007
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lymebytes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11830
posted
Lyme rage is a common symptom. Are you in treatment?
I have noticed my 'mood' changes dramatically with abx that penetrate the CNS, if you are on Doxy or another CNS penetrative, it could get worse before it gets better.
Have your doctor prescribe an anti-anxiety or an mild tricyclic antidepressants like Elavil in low doses. It will help you get through the symptoms as you treat them.
In the end who isn't enraged about having this disease? But work on controlling your thoughts, where the mind goes the man follows.
Try to think positively, I know how hard this is, but people get well, believe that.
Take yoga, sit in a sauna, take a warm bath, things you can tolerate that will calm you, read a good book (other than about Lyme!) whatever you do get your mind off the marathon and aim for the finish line.
Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
My GIRL.
I surely understand.
I have never heard yet of an LLMD who refuses repeated requests for an antidepressant from a person suffering from lyme-induced depression.
It simply should not have to be.
The rage never really goes away, you just channel it into activism wherever you can.
In the meantime, you need to employ whatever means necessary to help YOURSELF since your LLMD will not interest himself in that aspect of care.
And come here OFTEN and vent, and call ME and vent!!
Depression, agitation, and even rage are symptoms. They need to be addressed as surely as the eradication of the bacteria. Perhaps even more so, if you're to have the mental and emotional stamina necessary to fight the disease.
I know what you're going through and I personally feel rage myself that you have no help with it other than to be brushed off.
I've PM'd you some ideas. PLEASE take some of them. You need some relief.
Warmest squishy hugs,
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
My personal opinion is that I get ****y when I'm in alot of pain.
I prefer to deal with the pain by taking small doses of painkillers like Oxycontin or Vicodin. These drugs have helped me alot over the past 10-11 years.
I do not think anti-depressants are the answer.
I do not like any drugs in general but opiods have been in use for thousands of years. I prefer to use alternative medicine & herbs as much as possible.
Just my 2cents...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
MANY of us with lyme are helped enormously by anti-depressants.
I've seen POLLS here!!
Lyme messes with your brain.
For me, I personally don't like pain meds much (except Relpax for vicious headaches).
However, something that stabilizes my sense of well-being is priceless.
If pain is the problem, use pain meds.
If depression is the problem (particularly in a person who wasn't previously depressed pre-lyme -- and I know you were not), try an SSRI anti-depressant, unless otherwise advised by a doctor.
It can be a LIFESAVING tool in our arsenal.
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
As an aside, suicide rates are really high in lyme patients.
I expect this is due to DEPRESSION, as almost anyone can battle pain once depression is under control and there is hope.
Depression is a CLINICAL symptom of lyme disease. Do not try to be "tough." Just fighting the disease is tough enough. Asking for help is not a sign of some kind of mental weakness. It's a sign of common sense.
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
I had such bad rages during herxing that it threatened my marriage. I was also afraid I would have a stroke if it kept up.
Lyme seems to bring out an irritable depression in many people. I found out the hard way, that if you go to a shrink, you may be labelled with the new fad dx, Bipolar Type II, and given dangerous and unnecessary anti-psychotic drugs.
I was shocked to see, after all these years out of the work force due to Lyme, that shrinks had become nothing but assembly line drug pushers, IMO. The man talked to me for less than ten minutes before sticking me with a dx much more serious than was warranted.
Then I saw the NeuroPsych who dx'd my brain damage, but he felt I did not need any chemical substances. I felt I was much worse off than that and needed neurotransmitter help ASAP.
I knew the BP II dx was B.S. for me (I am a psychiatric social worker), but I also knew I needed more than talk therapy, so I decided to treat myself for what I thought it was, ie. irritable depression. It worked.
Pharmaceutical grade L-tryptophan supps. fixed me completely in three weeks. This is a natural depression treatment and will not eventually produce rebound or kill neurons like SSRIs (see Paul Cheney, M. D. for info on that).
Start with 500 mgs. at bed time and work up slowly until you get relief. It only took me 3 weeks on a 1 gram dose to stop the rages for good.
4 months later, I now take 2 grams, in divided doses, since I was pleasantly surprised to find that it also helps stop my heart arrhythmia symptoms (PSVTs), and seems to prevent those long, Lyme panic attacks as well.
If you try it, make sure to take it on an empty stomach, so it does not cause an amino acid imbalance. Since it makes you sleepy, bedtime is perfect.
Do NOT take tryptophan if you are also taking another anti-depressant med. The combo can cause serotonin syndrome, which is dangerous.
You can also try 5-HTP, which is more popular and is stronger than L-tryptophan, but I would advise extreme caution with it if you have any heart problems or symptoms of any kind.
5-HTP is a potent vasoconstrictor, and darn near killed me. I ended up on a portable heart monitor, barely able to walk across a room, but just plain L-tryptophan has been a God send for me.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Tracy9
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7521
posted
I believe anti depressants are every bit an important part of our treatment as antibiotics, pain relievers,and herbal remedies.
Cymbalta has worked really well for me. It alleviated the depression and anxiety, and helped reduce the pain as well.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I don't deny people should use anti-depressants if they feel it will help.
I just don't like the idea of potentially imbalancing the brain chemistry even further. There are other ways to deal with rage from Lyme. I've heard that depression is actually rage or anger turned inward.
When I first became ill, a doctor I saw who had no clue that I possibly had Lyme was practically throwing Zoloft samples at me. I wasn't depressed, I was in pain. Sometimes pain can make people depressed - so, it does work both ways.
Just my personal preference but I'd rather treat the pain. I'm not trying to be overly stoic. I just don't like the idea of using drugs on something as delicate as brain chemistry imbalances. These drugs haven't really been around for all that long. How do we know what the long term effects will be?
There are always alternatives. You just have to keep searching. If you feel it's the only way, then go with the drugs...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I actually think it's a good idea to let them - ie, the stacked deck - know we're ****ed off and that what they're doing re stand-down is unacceptable. I know I feel angry, but I try to make the switch to informational communication.
Like this past week - duck doc asked how I know if I have Lyme. So I told her the exact numbers of my positive bands on the Western blot, which ones were double-starred, what they supposedly stand for, and then looked expectantly at her for her next exciting question. She stopped asking!
And then I follow up my words with the doctor by having an educational conversation with the staff, and then maybe the next five people I meet! In other words, what to do with the anger: take some action towards the future we want - 100% awareness of the situation, etc.
Hm - astericks replaced what I wrote - lol
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
quote:Originally posted by sparkle7: There are other ways to deal with rage from Lyme. I've heard that depression is actually rage or anger turned inward.
For people who do NOT have lyme, that may be true.
However, depression is at the top of the list of lyme symptoms. Exacerbated by treatment, of course.
quote:SYMPTOMS
MIND General picture * ``In one U.S. study of 27 patients with late neuroborreliosis, 33% were depressed based on their scores on the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory. 89% of these 27 patients also had evidence of a mild encephalopathy, characterised by memory loss [81%], excessive daytime sleepiness [30%], extreme irritability [26%], and word finding difficulties [19%]. Controlled studies indicate significantly more depression among patients with late Lyme borreliosis than among normal controls and other chronically ill patients.'' [2]
* ``A diagnostic tip in favour of Lyme disease as the cause of the depression and irritability might be concomitant memory loss, word finding problems, or a concomitant polyneuropathy.'' [2]
posted
Hey Michelle- it has been more WHINE than wine lately. All day playing with Eng. language. I'm still at it. Posts: 111 | From Pa | Registered: Oct 2007
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
Hey Black POWER!!
I hope you are hanging in there.
You're allowed to whine around here, y'know.
LymeNet is a "Support" forum.
It's not a mark of shame to need an antidepressant. It's rather a mark of someone in tune with themselves enough to recognize when they might be helped by one before their depression gets even worse.
Do a search on antidepressants in the subject line. You'll find them VERY common.
Hugs,
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
i'm a little afraid of anti-D's. Paxil prozac and zoloft really messed with my head before(Divorce-era) I will get something though before I completely go to my quiet place(under covers)in hiding. (Four kids need me) THAT keeps me going. I love being a mom.
Posts: 111 | From Pa | Registered: Oct 2007
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
I dont think you get rage when you take BBB crossing drugs...in fact, I think its the exact oppisite. The bugs RUN into the brain when you take a non crossing BBB in my opinion. This was my clinical response to the very rage you refer. WE all hear about zithromax causing severe rage. When I took zithromax I got sudden powerful rage within minutes. I switched to the Roxythrmincin (50x blood plasma levels in study in brain) BBB crosser to the max...I get viberationg and pinging and calm. NO RAGE. Those of you who say that roxy study is flawed, fine, show me the data on zithro that shows it does cross bbb. You cant...it dont! I go with the available data, and I dont poo poo it until I get data that shows otherwise, I dont listen to pure heresay, unless it seems to have a logical angle to it and others experience the same things.
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
Now one more thought lyme loves coolness. The brain is hot. I wonder if they stay out of the brain until you take your abx that does not cross the BBB very well and then they run and hide there, your brain gets rage. (zithro rage is common and zitro has NEVER been asserted by the manf nor in any studies) Bart loves heat...from the warm climates, that explains the severe migrains so common in bart...bart is in the brain I propose not so much lyme until you take that poor crossing bbb abx...then lyme runs in, and your brain freaks!!! Just some thoughts based on logical deductions.
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posted
It's sort of common sense that anyone in pain or with a chronic illness is in a bad mood a lot of the time. It's hard to be cheerful umder those conditions..I have no answers.
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posted
wow, this is exactly the thread i needed to see today!
i just got out of the psychiatrist's office today with a bipolar diagnosis and a prescription for depakote.
also just went back on zithromax last week and i'm immediately turning into an angry and depressed jerk who only wants to listen to tori amos and eat ice cream.
i want to apologize to the people around me for acting weird and explain to them what i'm going through, but then again i feel like they're sick of hearing about it.....
Posts: 35 | From Washington, dc | Registered: Jul 2007
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It's scary for me and when I think back to the old days when everyone thought I just had a bad and quick temper, I think it was Lyme.
It was bad for me, being a Brown Belt in Karate I used to get in some big time fights. One time I kicked someone so hard on the side of his head he spun around and fell and just missed the corner of one of those cement parking things.
Thats was it for me and vowed to never fight again and I have kept that word now for 20 years.
But it's still there and hard to control along with the anxiety attacks which are really, realy bad.
I take Clonazepam the smallest dose made and cut it in half but have to still always be aware of my temper.
Good luck and I hope you find ANYTHING that will help you.
Steve
Posts: 406 | From Rhode Island | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Thank you all for the advice. It's comforting to know I am not alone. Wait, did I just say it was comforting to know there are more people raging?!? I guess I just needed to know I'm not crazy.
Oh yeah Byron do I get to use a frozen steak? or the old 96er (Great Outdoors)
Posts: 111 | From Pa | Registered: Oct 2007
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