disturbedme
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posted
This is driving me insane.
What causes Tachycardia? I know it's because the spirochetes are in the heart, right? But then what causes Tacyhcardia only once or twice a week and then the rest of the week for it to be fine?
I used to have Tachycardia constantly, and I used to have to take Toprol-XL to help calm the Tachycardia and help stop heart palps as well (during the 3rd or so month of tx, I was able to stop taking it).
Since lyme and bart tx (which has been about 7 months), I don't have Tachycardia as often, only once or twice a week or not even that often. My heart palps I rarely notice anymore (*knock on wood*).
I guess I'm not really asking a question, but more just wondering who else goes through this. I hate tachycardia. I mean, one day I can have 80 bmp and then the next, like today, it's up to 105 bmp. I am very glad it's gotten better, but I still hate the odd day of having it, especially since it gets up to 105 or even higher bmps!
PS - I've had many, many heart testing done (over three or four different times in the past) and everything came back normal, so I am pretty sure it's lyme/co's giving me tachycardia and the palps I used to have/have rarely now.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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CD57
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posted
This is my exact scenario. I hate tachycardia, esp. at night. Sleep is impossible.
Mine is improving with Lyme/bart treatment. I have no idea what causes it either. I do notice that I get it especially bad after a Bicillin shot (Lyme herx?).
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Hi I had wicked palps. I honestly told my husband that I would die from a heart attack many times this past summer. It was really bad. Mine have gotten much better on the IV Rocephin and zith. They were better before the babs treatment started so I am blaming them on the Lyme. They are mostly gone now.
Posts: 422 | From CT | Registered: Oct 2007
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Geneal
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posted
Mine has greatly improved with florinef for Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia (POTs).
I still have them, but much less.
Hugs,
Geneal
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Carol in PA
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posted
The Lyme bacteria uses lots of our magnesium to live and reproduce.
Magnesium deficiency has been linked with cardiac arrhythmias and sudden cardiac death.
Are you taking magnesium supplements every day?
Carol
Posts: 6956 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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disturbedme
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quote:Originally posted by Carol in PA: Are you taking magnesium supplements every day?
Yep, I am.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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TerryK
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posted
I have tachacardia along with orthostatic hypotension. They often seem to go together.
Other things that can cause tachycardia that I know of are food allergies (pulse will go up as a result of eating something you are allergic to), dehydration, high blood pressure, anxiety, potassium deficiency, vitamin B deficiency and I'm sure there are lots of other reasons.
If you haven't already, be sure to tell your doctor.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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In addition to other suggestions, is there anything new to your diet or environment that may be over-stimulating ?
You said are taking magnesium, still, it could be that magnesium intake may need to be higher than the usual RDA. (As mentioned by Carol above).
Can you check with your LLMD about dosage? Can you get a test for intra-cellular levels ?
If you take too much, you simply have loose stools. Can you test out taking it to the tolerance point ?
Many abstracts from PubMed show the miracle of magnesium with heart rhythm under various circumstances, even some very serious. I've pasted just two examples below.
Maybe magnesium shots, or soaking your feet in epsom salts and warm water can increase the availability.
For me, liquid magnesium or shots work far better than the capsules. If you do do shots, adding B12 can help take out the sting. Magnesium shots alone are painful but I could tell a HUGE difference in how much better my body took it in.
and, of course, other minerals need to be in balance.
Effectiveness of oral magnesium in a patient with ventricular tachycardia due to hypomagnesemia.
Tsuji A, Araki K, Maeyama K, Hashimoto K.
Department of Pediatrics, Saitama Municipal Hospital, Saitama, Japan.
A 12-year-old girl with occasional symptoms of chest discomfort was diagnosed with ventricular tachycardia on cardiac evaluation.
No evidence of organic heart disease was apparent, but a laboratory evaluation revealed hypomagnesemia.
Ventricular tachycardia disappeared after treatment with 200 mg/day of oral magnesium hydroxide, and no further chest discomfort was reported.
In addition to routine cardiac evaluation for arrhythmia, serum magnesium levels should be checked in patients with suspected idiopathic benign ventricular tachycardia.
Treatment with oral magnesium is a physiologic therapy and should be considered for patients with ventricular tachycardia due to hypomagnesemia.
Efficacy of magnesium sulfate for treatment of ventricular tachycardia in amitriptyline intoxication.
Sarisoy O, Babaoglu K, Tugay S, Barn E, Gokalp AS. Department of Pediatrics, Kocaeli University Faculty of Medicine, Umuttepe Yerleskesi, Izmit, Kocaeli, Turkey.
In our country, tricyclic antidepressants are usually present in most of the homes. Myocardial depression and ventricular arrhythmia are the severe side effects in tricyclic antidepressant overdose. A 4-year-old boy was brought to our hospital after taking 70 mg/kg of amitriptyline.
On arrival, the patient was comatose (Glasgow Coma Score was 3), had a shallow breathing pattern with bradycardia (HR <30/min), and hypotension.
He was intubated and resuscitated with multiple doses of adrenaline and sodium bicarbonate. He was infused with a bolus of 20 mg/kg of normal saline for hypotension. After 30 minutes, ventricular fibrillation was detected.
Lidocaine and bicarbonate were not effective in converting the rhythm to normal, therefore, synchronized cardioversion was used. After cardioversion, the rhythm converted to ventricular tachycardia.
Because ventricular tachycardia did not resolve, we administered a load of less than 2 g of magnesium sulfate for 30 minutes followed by a continuous infusion of 3 mg/min. After magnesium sulfate infusion, a normal cardiac rhythm was achieved.
Magnesium sulfate is a very effective treatment in intractable arrhythmias caused by high-dose amitriptyline intoxication.
PMID: 17876255 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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[ 28. January 2008, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
What causes Tachycardia? I know it's because the spirochetes are in the heart, right? But then what causes Tacyhcardia only once or twice a week and then the rest of the week for it to be fine?
Many of the medicines that we take, cause neurological disorders to the autonomic nervous system, the one that one does not control, and that governs intestine motility, heart beats, and the like. When the neuron injury is not complete, the symptoms are caused randomly when enough nerve fibers do note make the appropriate nerve-end connnections due to failure of the neurotransmissions. The body is constantly trying to compensate for those disorders producing more neurotransmitters or wipping off the excess of others by the second. The final balance, if not appropriate at a given time, can produce arrythmias and tachycardia.
Posts: 94 | From canada | Registered: Nov 2006
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disturbedme
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quote:Originally posted by lymeflox: Many of the medicines that we take, cause neurological disorders to the autonomic nervous system, the one that one does not control, and that governs intestine motility, heart beats, and the liketime, can produce arrythmias and tachycardia.
I've had my tachycardia before I was on any type of medicine.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Monica - I recall saying the same thing! In 05 mine started out of the blue and was on 24hr monitor then 30 day monitor and all testings. Everythign seemed fine but did show major runs of PJC's and only a few PVC's and PAC's.
DX was "electrical misfires of benign nature".
I HATE THESE!!!!!!!!!!! They are so scary for when the Tach hits I sit wondering is it going to stop this time?
Disturbed there is no rhyme or reason to mine either and come and go days and days in between, not like they were for that 3 month period of all the time it seemed.
Reading that it is the Bb in the heart gives me the frickin willies though, gotta admit!!!!!!!!
-------------------- Seeking renewed health & vitality. --------------------------------- Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr! Posts: 830 | From TN | Registered: Aug 2007
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lymeinhell
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posted
Disturbedme - you could be talking about me!!
I had the EXACT same scenario hit me 10 days ago. Out of nowhere, my pulse was 104 after watching tv for 2 hours...
The solution - IV MAGNESIUM.
When your body gets low (which by nature of the bacteria is a common state for most of us), one of the classic signs is tachycardia. No amount of oral will help bring you up to 'normal'. It's just not possible to absorb as much as you need from pills. I take low doses 8 times a day..
In order to get my levels to even 'low normal' I had to have several IV's. Then I've been giving myself weekly IM shots of Mag Sulfate for 3 years now.
Over the last 5 mos or so, I thought it was time to wean off or cut back on frequency. First to 10 days, then to every 2 weeks.. And this time I think I just waited a bit too long (a bit more than 3 weeks)...
The shot didn't help. The next morning, my pulse was 108 when I got out of bed. ( Mind you, I take 100mg of Toprol every day). Even taking extra Toprol did not help the waves of flushing that kept hitting me.
So off to the LLMD for some much needed Magnesium. I watched the transformation during the IV (my face and neck was beet red, my hands had a lovely purple shade as well). I also had horrible chest pain which turned out to be costo-chondritis.
I was going to post this in the hopes others would remember how important keeping mag levels 'normal' is.
-------------------- Julie _ _ ___ _ _ lymeinhell
Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed. Posts: 2258 | From a better place than I was 11 yrs ago | Registered: Sep 2003
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
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I used to give myself magnesium shots. Unbearable, but I did it. In my thighs.
then . . . after a few months the brilliant doctor, who really would rather not have had me as a patient, FINALLY told me if I added B12 in the syringe it would be so much better. It was. That is the only way I would even consider it if you do shots.
Later I did many IV treatments. Just make sure not to push too fast, drips are easier on me.
IV really does seem to have a better effect - it must be mixed with other minerals to balance and for comfort. Taurine was also added to mine.
Taurine supplement might also help orally. you can search it out on PubMed. It's very calming and an important amino acid for anyone with neuro stress.
Orally, Magnesium glycinate is the form that works best for me.
quote:Originally posted by Carol in PA: The Lyme bacteria uses lots of our magnesium to live and reproduce. Carol
So you are suggesting "feeding" the bacteria so they can live & reproduce more?
Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
I used to have episodes of mild tachycardia (HR = ~95-105+ bpm) that lasted for hours at a time but this symptom disappeared after only a few months on MP. My normal HR was around 45 bpm (athletic) at the time.
Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Originally posted by lymeflox: Many of the medicines that we take, cause neurological disorders to the autonomic nervous system, the one that one does not control, and that governs intestine motility, heart beats, and the liketime, can produce arrythmias and tachycardia.
I think this is true. BUT ALSO: "LYME bacteria" can be subsituted for "medicines we take" in the above paragraph.
Lyme causes intestine motility probs, heart probs and tons of other NERO disorders.
Posts: 258 | From Washington State | Registered: Nov 2005
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lymeinhell
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posted
IM Shots are a piece of cake. It's 2m Mag Sulfate and 1m lidocaine. I do them in my hip. I've tried the thigh area - a little easier to do - however, when the lidocaine wears off, Yowza.
IV is seriously more effective and, for me at least, brought immediate relief. However, the shots for maintenance seems to do the trick as long as I am consistent.
We need Marnie to remind all the importance of magnesium - and how much of our symptoms are really from magnesium deficiency..
BTW - insurance didn't cover the supplies, but all told for 100 syringes, and 25 doses of mag and lidocaine was around $65. Small price to pay to live like a normal person.
(But the amount they reimbursed me for paying $25 for a shot done at the office is laughable. I got $0.63 - kid you not).
-------------------- Julie _ _ ___ _ _ lymeinhell
Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed. Posts: 2258 | From a better place than I was 11 yrs ago | Registered: Sep 2003
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Keebler
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posted
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Without magnesium, humans cannot live. Potassium and other minerals and electrolytes, too, are simply vital to our existence.
Deficiency in some of these can cause serious problems, even death.
Prevention is key. Intracellular (not just serum) testing can give you a picture of if your body is getting what you need.
posted
"BIG" supporter... no. Just posting my experience like everyone else. I've just had far more things go right on MP than wrong - unlike other protocols I've tried in the past.
PS. More on topic, I should add that magnesium supplementation never did a darn thing for me.
Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007
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Carol in PA
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quote:Originally posted by B R H:
quote:Originally posted by Carol in PA: The Lyme bacteria uses lots of our magnesium to live and reproduce. Carol
So you are suggesting "feeding" the bacteria so they can live & reproduce more?
Yes, I am. If we don't try to replace the mag that has been lost, our cells can not function properly.
The cells use magnesium for all enzyme processes. This includes turning blood sugar and oxygen into energy.
Trying to "starve" the Lyme bacteria only hurts us more.
Carol
Editing to add: Those Lyme bacteria are real bullies.
Posts: 6956 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Keebler
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posted
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for anyone doing shots and using lidocaine:
Some may contain Epinephrine - be sure to get it without as it is a steroid and all steroids must be avoided with lyme.
My dentist allerted me to this as many dental shots have "Eppy" in them. She writes "NO EPPY" on my chart.
I wondered why the shots made me so jittery. They did not when she changed the formula.
quote:Originally posted by johnnyb: Have you ever posted what worked for you in detail, doses and such? I'm sure whether or not we are MP-ing, it would still be an interesting read. - JB
MP Phase 1 meds are just Benicar & minocycline. The dose of Benicar is higher than usual, as necessary to keep your VDR activated (VDR agonism is essentially a side-effect of Benicar). The dose of minocycline is tiny in comparision to antibiotic doses typically taken for TBDs. You start at a measly 25 mg & work up to a meager 100 mg only taken once every other day.
The other antibiotics you take on MP are no big secret if you do a little searching, but the doses remain tiny by comparison to other protocols. The reason they don't post them is out of concern that people will try the protocol without the proper doctor supervision. Even though the antibiotic doses are tiny, they seem to be incredibly effective at killing these difficult bacteria.
If you kill too many bacteria too quickly, you risk serious harm to yourself due to the cytokines released in the process. Cytokine release is what causes herxes. They are so profound, but generally short-lived, on MP that they are VERY obvious. The timing with the antibiotic dose makes it especially obvious. MP is unlike any other protocol I've tried - FAR more effective & tolerable at the same time.
Note that the tiny antibiotic doses also reduce or eliminate killing all the "good bacteria" (intestinal issues). All antibiotics on MP are also bacteriostatic vs. bacteriocidal. In other words, they weaken the bacteria so that your (Benicar) activated innate immune system can kill them. Your immune system is the ONLY thing capable of entirely eliminating ANY infection.
Bacteriocidal antibiotics can greatly tip the scale in favor of your immune system & certainly have their place in acute infections. However, those antibiotics (penicillins in particular) can also CREATE cell-wall-deficient bacteria implicated in many chronic diseases, especially at the high doses used in typical TBD protocols. In fact, this is exactly how cell-wall-deficient bacteria are created to study in the laboratory environment!
Speaking of labs, you might also be interested to know that labs use vitamins B, A, D & folic acid as bacteria culture medium! Made me think twice about supplementing.
My doctor has been very happy with how things have gone on MP & thinks I have been cured for months already. I really want to be done with this once & for all so I plan to stay on MP until I no longer get any herx at all from any combination of the antibiotics (you mix & match the tiny doses in the later phases).
I only wish I had found MP sooner so I hadn't wasted so much time & possibly even created more CWD bacteria to kill along the way. Don't regret the azithromycin/mepron for babesia though as it was the only other treatment that had obvious & lasting results. This is probably the worst part in my opinion. Even when killing the bacteria as fast as you can tolerate, it still takes a long time. That's a testament to just how infected these ticks leave us!
PS. Sorry this isn't as clear & organized as it could be. This is the 3rd time I've tried replying only to have the boards crash & lose all my typing each time. I don't have a lot of time to spend here (moved on with my life), so it is especially frustrating when the board is flaky. Hope you find something worth reading here.
[ 30. January 2008, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: B R H ]
Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by disturbedme: I've had my tachycardia before I was on any type of medicine.
So did I. In fact, this was one of the main reasons I continued pursuing a diagnosis with physicians. I thought it was surely such an obvious symptom that the cause would be equally obvious.
Consider that the tachycardia may be due to inflammation of the heart tissues (muscle & nerves) caused by chronic infection. Any acute infection (spirochetes) would already be wiped out by the antibiotics I'm sure you've basically overdosed on by now.
It is chronic inflammation from a cell-wall-deficient bacterial infection (L-forms, cysts, coccoids, pleomorphs, whatever you want to call them) that is causing the tachycardia. You need to address the root cause of the inflammation (the infection) to cure your tachycardia. MP (minocycline in particular) worked for me.
Magnesium supplementation may reduce the symptoms, but it will not cure the disease causing the symptoms.
[ 30. January 2008, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: B R H ]
Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
5 ml Mepron (750 mg atovaquone) bid with fatty meal + 250 mg azithromycin bid for ~3 months. I am asplenic, so my doctor aggressively treated the babesia.
This treatment eliminated the drenching night sweats I had endured for years after the tick bites.
Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007
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