Topic: Has anyone successfully educated a non-LL doc?
heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
keebler, peacesoul was putting down how other people (namely, me) deal with severe abuse by the mainstream medical industry. as though that's her place, as though she has any right to criticize survivors of an abuse she has never endured.
that would be like me telling an iraqi woman who'd just lost her entire family in a bombing to 'stop complaining, everyone dies, i pray you find your calm and let go of your anger.' how ridiculous and condescending and awful would that be?? and yes, i realize my comparison is a bit of a stretch, but i'm trying to get my point across here.
no one has any right to tell another person how to move through their healing/grieving process. i am floored no one but me has called her out on her behavior.
even so, all that said; and despite the severity of my experience (although i know i'm not the only one, i have yet to meet another lymie who was dragged to court while so sick she could barely hold her head up, then locked away for five months in a psych ward because 'doctors' insisted she was crazy, and not physically ill), yes, i have met non-LL doctors who i would never call 'ducks.' because they were kind, gentle, open to learning about my experience and learning about lyme. they are rare, but they do exist.
heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
also, i don't think it's our responsibility to make this site palatable to people without lyme who might wander in, doctors or not. i really don't. maybe another site could be set up for that purpose - in fact, i would think the ILADS site or lymeinfo are two places that already do just that.
lymenet flash is for the lyme community. if we can't come here and find support and solace for all we've been through, that is a sad thing indeed.
i personally am not the least bit interested in how others perceive me. admittedly, perhaps that's just my activism stance showing its face here, too. that's like asking me to act 'less gay' so straight people won't be offended. sorry, not interested. not interested at all.
quote:Originally posted by heiwalove: [Q] keebler, peacesoul was putting down how other people (namely, me) deal with severe abuse by the mainstream medical industry. as though that's her place, as though she has any right to criticize survivors of an abuse she has never endured.
that would be like me telling an iraqi woman who'd just lost her entire family in a bombing to 'stop complaining, everyone dies, i pray you find your calm and let go of your anger.' how ridiculous and condescending and awful would that be?? and yes, i realize my comparison is a bit of a stretch, but i'm trying to get my point across here.
no one has any right to tell another person how to move through their healing/grieving process. i am floored no one but me has called her out on her behavior.
[/Q]
Heather, how would you know what my past entails with abuse? You don't! You don't b/c I don't have an excessive need to talk about my trauma. My story would make your head spin. But unlike you, I don't play victim. I've decided to use my energy to heal my life. Lyme is but a small bump in my road and again will use my strength and energy to heal.
No one else has called me out b/c I think silently people agree with me.
Your comparison to an Iraq woman is absurd. We can have healthy/sane debate if you like, if not, I suggest you follow your comments in the above posts and ignore me.
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by heiwalove: [Q] i personally am not the least bit interested in how others perceive me. [/Q]
If that were true, you would have not send me the PM you did.
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posted
Undoubtedly, there is much, much suffering in a Lyme patient. The suffering is compounded by the present medical political climate.
Many people are bitter, resentful, and downright livid with the lack of awareness that has been exhibited by doctors concerning Lyme. This lack of awareness has left people with a profound sense of betrayal and abandonment. This is a direct result from dealings with doctors who didn't know about an epidemic which is right under their noses. Perhaps, for reasons unknown to us they didn't WANT to know or deal with the Lyme epidemic.
I think it's interesting to consider that when we pay for the services of a doctor, we are paying for their opinion. One doctor described the term "diagnosis" to me as, "the doctor's best educated guess." This so-called "guess" is made after critical analysis of signs and symptoms, laboratory testing, and patient history. A sobering thought actually, the notion that a diagnosis is merely an educated guess.
The problem is that in this current medical-political climate of peer-reviewed and "group thought," alot of physicians are failing to approach diagnosis using critical thought and analysis. Instead, they tout party lines or guidelines and fall right in line with what they perceive as the current paradigm. To me there often appears to be a lack of intellectual creativity as well.
Put another way, it's tantamount to having an entire field of scientists insist to us today that the Earth is flat.
I don't know that it's any less of a derogatory statement to call an incompetent doctor a jerk then it is to call him a duck. But, we as consumers of medical services and as patients do not need to possess a medical degree in order to make an assessment of medical competence in alot of situations.
Do we need to have a plumbing license in order to know whether the plumber we have hired has fixed a leaking faucet? I do know that one thing a customer will NOT stand for is to continue to hire a plumber and pay him for his services while he's standing in the customer's kitchen (which is full of standing water leaking from a sink faucet), and continues to insist that the faucet is not leaking and there is nothing wrong with it.
We are hiring doctors for their educated opinions and assessments. Unfortunately, a vast majority of the doctors are UNEDUCATED when it comes to Lyme. And I find the lack of Lyme education and awareness to be reprehensible particularly when it comes to doctors in my State where Lyme is on record as being epidemic and hyper-endemic.
I've come to the harsh realization that No One is going to care as passionately about my well being and health as I do. Consequently, I feel as though I have been forced to sort my health puzzle out myself.
Am I angry? You bet I am. Am I bitter? You betcha. Will I stop seeing doctors? No. Unfortunately, I find myself in the unenviable position of needing the services of physicians who are knowledgeable about Lyme. I require medical testing and medication.
But, gone, gone, gone are the days when I would walk into a doctor's office and assume that he knew what he was supposed to know or would be willing and able to recognize and learn about an illness that could be new to him.
Gone, gone, gone are the days when I would relinquish control and power over to another individual (a doctor) and allow him to design my fate by making so many decisions (mistaken decisions in some cases) about my health.
I ask questions now -- lot's of them. I want to understand my doctor's viewpoint, his thinking, his philosophy and, most importantly, I want to know WHY he's making a certain decision and recommending a certain treatment path.
Call me a high maintenance patient. I don't care. I'm paying for the services and opinions and I'm not going to elect to be a non-participant in the process of how to regain my health.
Will I continue to try to share what I've learned with people, including doctors? Probably. I feel really strongly about this issue now that I am experiencing it. But I've got no expectations that my message will be heard. That won't stop me from trying sometimes though!
Just my 2 cents.
Fuzzy
Posts: 503 | From Maryland | Registered: Oct 2007
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
peacesoul, i said abuse *by the medical industry - let me be more specific and say abuse by the medical industry because of/related to lyme disease. you just said yourself, here and in another thread in general, that you haven't had much of a problem in that arena. well, lucky you. i'm not trying to say what your history of abuse is like in any other area of your life, because obviously i have no way of knowing that history.
all i said in my pm was that i'd like you to please leave me alone. i felt i was being harassed by you and as i said your words brought me to tears - not because i'm 'giving my power away,' but because i have PTSD (clinically diagnosed) and this subject is still a very sensitive & difficult one for me. i would appreciate it if you'd respect that, but i've come to realize you are incapable of doing so. i'm truly sorry for you.
my comparison is not absurd - a stretch, yes - but you have no right to tell me how to deal with a trauma that you have admitted to never having endured yourself. even if you did have my exact same experience, you would STILL have zero right to preach to me how i should handle it. everyone has their own process, their own pace, their own journey.
i suggest you get off your high horse. you are no better than me or anyone else on this board.
btw, i would like to know your real name, because you are not a 'peaceful soul' in the least and i resent having to type those words every time i wish to address you.
posted
Fuzzy, great post You took your experience and anger and put it to good use by being your own advocate.
Using the term jerk, defines the person's attitude, not their profession.
We expect a lot from dr's when in reality, unless they are researchers, they are people working in a office practicing what they learned in some books.
I've been in the medical system for over 13 yrs and yes was angry that not one dr really could figure it out. But even if they did, testing is faulty and how would they know to have sent blood to a lab called Igenex?
How can we expect dr's to know all this?! If a dr degrades you or belittles you, you get up and walk out of his office and find someone that will listen to you.
quote:Originally posted by heiwalove: [Q] peacesoul, i said abuse *by the medical industry - let me be more specific and say abuse by the medical industry because of/related to lyme disease. you just said yourself, here and in another thread in general, that you haven't had much of a problem in that arena. well, lucky you. i'm not trying to say what your history of abuse is like in any other area of your life, because obviously i have no way of knowing that history.
all i said in my pm was that i'd like you to please leave me alone. i felt i was being harassed by you and as i said your words brought me to tears - not because i'm 'giving my power away,' but because i have PTSD (clinically diagnosed) and this subject is still a very sensitive & difficult one for me. i would appreciate it if you'd respect that, but i've come to realize you are incapable of doing so. i'm truly sorry for you.
my comparison is not absurd - a stretch, yes - but you have no right to tell me how to deal with a trauma that you have admitted to never having endured yourself. even if you did have my exact same experience, you would STILL have zero right to preach to me how i should handle it. everyone has their own process, their own pace, their own journey.
i suggest you get off your high horse. you are no better than me or anyone else on this board.
btw, i would like to know your real name, because you are not a 'peaceful soul' in the least and i resent having to type those words every time i wish to address you. [/Q]
show me where I preached to you about how to handle your experience. And you pm'ed me to which I did not reply and in your pm you said "you're p*ssing me off and I wish you would just leave" Who's harrassing whom? So far you've insulted me a few times so, maybe it's not my soul that needs the peace
I have no high horse, but there is no point in reasoning with a victim
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heiwalove
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Member # 6467
posted
peacesoul, this is getting ridiculous. i said 'you are p*ssing me off and i wish you would please leave me alone' or something to that extent. i never said *you should leave. read it again if you must.
and now i am done. trying to get you to take my experience seriously is futile. you seem to have no ability (or perhaps no desire) to be compassionate.
lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
I do believe this thread was hi-jacked for the expressed purposes of begining and perpetuating an unwinable argument....
Newbies should fall in line and respect what is normal around here and conform or go away.
because my friends for all the good(bad)reasons are referred to as ducks...HERE...not in person!
Why?
Simple If it looks like a duck If it acts like a duck If it quacks like a duck If it treats us like a duck
Chances are..............it's a DUCK!
No matter what!
Don't forget one thing people!
I and or my insurance are the doctors employer! Remember that!
Not arrogant..just fact!
A true "doctor" will always have my respect, until such time, as they lose that respect!
Then of course! They are ducks until they earn a title of something else!
Jerks would'nt be bad either....oh so much more mature than "ducks"...who practice quackery!
Let's see....Jerks practice Jerkery!
Nope sorry! Does'nt fit properly for our purposes!
Can you see the point now!? If not then you just want to argue! So, what's the point!
Which, if you consider the demographics, are most of mainstream medical practitioners...
AND WE KNOW WHY!
If someone else does'nt then they might be considered immature, illread, naive etc whose
opinion should'nt amount to a hill of ticks, around here!
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by lymie tony z: I do believe this thread was hi-jacked for the expressed purposes of begining and perpetuating an unwinable argument....
Newbies should fall in line and respect what is normal around here and conform or go away.
because my friends for all the good(bad)reasons are referred to as ducks...HERE...not in person!
Why?
Simple If it looks like a duck If it acts like a duck If it quacks like a duck If it treats us like a duck
Chances are..............it's a DUCK!
No matter what!
Don't forget one thing people!
I and or my insurance are the doctors employer! Remember that!
Not arrogant..just fact!
A true "doctor" will always have my respect, until such time, as they lose that respect!
Then of course! They are ducks until they earn a title of something else!
Jerks would'nt be bad either....oh so much more mature than "ducks"...who practice quackery!
Let's see....Jerks practice Jerkery!
Nope sorry! Does'nt fit properly for our purposes!
Can you see the point now!? If not then you just want to argue! So, what's the point!
Which, if you consider the demographics, are most of mainstream medical practitioners...
AND WE KNOW WHY!
If someone else does'nt then they might be considered immature, illread, naive etc whose
opinion should'nt amount to a hill of ticks, around here!
zman
Zman,
With particular emphasis to your statement, "Newbies should fall in line and respect what is normal around here and conform or go away." --
As a newbie myself and someone who also posted on this thread -- I will say thank you for such a warm welcome.
I don't know to whom you were referring in the rest of your post, but in the event your opinion was directed to my post, I urge you to read what I wrote again.
Regards, Fuzzy
Posts: 503 | From Maryland | Registered: Oct 2007
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clairenotes
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posted
The possibility that this is more economical in nature than anything else as one poster alluded to here, is very real (insurance companies/budgets etc). There may be other reasons also, but until they come to light, this is what I am most inclined to believe. So using the term `duck' is somehow incongruent and does not ring true to the situation for me. But that does not mean that I still don't get upset by the individual stories I hear either, or that I don't remember how frustrated and angry I was when no one could provide answers for my situation and I didn't have even the slightest clue how to understand what I was faced with. So I certainly don't judge those who do use the term.
And there are some here that need the space to process their difficult experiences without judgment. This is what was most helpful for me when having to deal with the bizarre and twisted set of circumstances in my own life. And I think that most psychologists would agree that this is the best medicine.
Letting go, or finding a way in which to integrate or deal with the distressing events so that we can move forward again will come in time, but in a time that cannot be dictated.
Things got out of hand here in a way that I am almost sure was not intended.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
Zman....You're part of the radical bunch. Just because you've been here for a long 4 yrs, doesn't mean the "newbies" need to comform to the radical bunch.
I've seen many of your posts and you have been rude to many people on here.
Does being on a board talking about an illness for four long years make one even more bitter?
heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
i think (or i hope) that all zman means in this case is that if you're new to lyme disease, then you're also new to lyme politics, so it might do you well to research the lyme controversy and all its severe, deleterious effects (that is, if you haven't already experienced them yourself) before you tell an entire community that their term of choice for 'doctors' who have treated them like crap is 'wrong' and 'rude' and 'immature.'
that's my take on his words, anyway, and if that's what he meant, then i agree.
i don't believe newbies need to 'conform' - i don't think anyone should conform to anything, ever, if they feel it isn't right for them - but i think perhaps they would do well to take a minute and respect the fact that many of us have been at this lyme thing a long time, have been involved in lyme activism for many years, etc, etc. you may not agree with the term 'duck' and that is totally your perogative. but putting down others who feel the need to use that term in this forum only, as a way to vent their anger/frustration to other folks they assume will understand.. well, that is inexcusable, in my opinion.
1.the normal, nonwarring condition of a nation, group of nations, or the world.
2. (often initial capital letter) an agreement or treaty between warring or antagonistic nations, groups, etc., to end hostilities and abstain from further fighting or antagonism: the Peace of Ryswick.
3. a state of mutual harmony between people or groups, esp. in personal relations: Try to live in peace with your neighbors.
4. the normal freedom from civil commotion and violence of a community; public order and security: He was arrested for being drunk and disturbing the peace.
5. cessation of or freedom from any strife or dissension.
6. freedom of the mind from annoyance, distraction, anxiety, an obsession, etc.; tranquillity; serenity.
7. a state of tranquillity or serenity: May he rest in peace.
8. a state or condition conducive to, proceeding from, or characterized by tranquillity: the peace of a mountain resort.
9. silence; stillness: The cawing of a crow broke the afternoon's peace.
10. (initial capital letter, italics) a comedy (421 b.c.) by Aristophanes. -interjection 11. (used to express greeting or farewell or to request quietness or silence). -verb (used without object) 12. Obsolete. to be or become silent.
--------------------------- Peace be with us all. That is my prayer tonight.
-------------------- I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. -Galileo Posts: 61 | From South Carolina | Registered: Oct 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Is it possible to stop all labels, all name-calling?
Know that some are more tender than others about this.
Some have developed certain strategies to deal with damage.
Some are still smarting. Others can compartmentalize and put the anger aside from time to time - or for exploring a new doctor or a new avenue. Some can't yet.
But - calling anyone names - posters here or doctors there - is counterproductive and toxic. Let's recognize that we are all struggling and let's see where we can go from here.
Just a thought.
-
"All I am saying is Give Peace a Chance" (John Lennon).
posted
Although I registered last year around this time, I rarely post here. I find this thread quite appropriate as I had a "good" experience with my doctor today.
I was just taken off antibiotics several weeks ago in preparation for a new spinal tap. Before you say anything else, I know the taps usually don't show anything. My LLMD, Dr. F in NJ seems to know what she is doing, so I placed my trust in her hands. I caught a nasty cold which has turned to Bronchitis over the last few days which sent me in to my PCP. I wasn't happy about going back on meds since I have made it almost the whole month to get the tap.
I haven't seen this doc since last summer. I brought a copy of my spect scan results which show hypoperfusion. Being that I live in the backyard of Yale, mostly all of his Lyme info comes from there, yet he was openminded. He asked me to help him know what signs to look for since they are so broad. He also knows the testing is sketchy at best. He asked me many questions to try to obtain an understanding of this. We talked about my spect scan and he said this clearly shows signs of chronic infection, to which he replied "No doctor could dispute that."
So in regards to calling them ducks, I am in agreement 100% with Peacesoul. Not that I haven't had my share of bad doctors, but carrying around that anger is not doing any good for my health. Nor, is is helping to spread the word to people who legitimately want to learn.
Lastly, I wanted to say that this board has become quite "hostile" over the last year since I first posted. I also noticed that many other legitimate websites that speak of Lyme no longer list it as a link. I can clearly see why. If we want significant dialogue with the medical community, we need to treat them with respect and they to us in return. I am truly sorry about many of the experiences many of the members here have had, but if we want to get better, we need to put that anger aside and use that energy for some positive healing.
Posts: 157 | From connecticut | Registered: Feb 2007
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heiwalove
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posted
anger is a necessary step in any healing process. no, it's not healthy to cling to it forever, but if you bypass the anger stage of grieving/dealing with trauma, you can't ever hope to heal. this is pretty basic psychological knowledge.
posted
You are right, you can never hope to heal without letting go of the anger. Basic knowledge I am well aware of. I guess I am just in a much better place with myself than you may be right now. I hope you can find the same.
Posts: 157 | From connecticut | Registered: Feb 2007
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heiwalove
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posted
i said you can never hope to heal without first EXPERIENCING (and expressing) the anger. i am well aware that letting go of the anger is important as well.
i would appreciate it if you didn't make assumptions about 'where i am with myself.' thanks.
posted
I guess you must still be expressing it now. Let the thread get back to where it was supposed to be and that's educating doctors, thanks.
Posts: 157 | From connecticut | Registered: Feb 2007
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
TonysGirl, good luck with the spinal tap. Also, thanks for seeing my reasoning.
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Contrary to some people here...I am not angry,
The use of duck is supremely appropriate over all others, this is why it is used.
If you do not wish to use it FINE! Don't, just do not try to tell me not to use it or why I am using it or when I can use it...
nothing but a bunch of do nothing for anyone else be argue inane idiotic junk....could be a definition of a TROLL as well...but you won't here me calling anyone a troll.....
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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sometimesdilly
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posted
back to the original question.
umm.. NO. never have educated a duck, though not from lack of trying. i'm afraid i just made them quack more furiously in self-defense.
dilly
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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lymebytes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11830
posted
Yes, I have educated an ID MD and he has called me several times personally for more information.
He has an open mind and even said, "We as doctor's cannot pretend to know everything, we simply don't, I would love to learn about Lyme".
posted
This is why the public doesn't believe us. It's because of crap like this. I guess LYMENUTS is a superb appropriate word for this board.
PS Don't bother trying to tell me as a NEWBIE what I can and can't say. Trolls come along often, but I am not one of them. It's people like Peacesoul and myself that need to do some activism and get this show on the road with some proof of validity. No one in the real world would look at this board and believe it not to be filled by people who are in dire need of medical/mental help. Not because of Lyme either, but because they have nothing better than to hijack posts and complain and rag all day long! How do you people survive if you don't work! How can you read this board day in and day out, be real. How do you deal and post this garbage all day?? I don't get it. What I am trying to say is, there is no legitimacy to this board anymore and that's a shame. Especially for people like California Lyme who sincerely try to help. She needs to spend her time and effort where it is needed most, with people who want to get better and actually change the climate towards Lyme disease.
Lastly, please don't tell me to break up my post for neuro lymies, I AM a neuro lymie and have no problem reading it.
Posts: 157 | From connecticut | Registered: Feb 2007
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The reason people do not believe in lyme is not because of the use of the word "Duck" - it is because of the lack of knowledge on the subject, and in the medical community there are "Doctors" who refuse to acknowledge that Lyme does exist and its real.
I grew up around parents who used the terms "Ducks and Quacks" for doctors who refused to listen to their patients, and my dad referred to Mechanic's as Grease Monkeys - and he was a mechanic.
So, the use of words weither its Jerk, Duck or Quack - is a personal choice or peronal opinion. And the "Doctors" who do not believe in lyme or its existance would not be on this board reading any of it. Because it goes against their educational beliefs.
So, to say, and I quote "This is why the public doesn't believe us. It's because of crap like this. I guess LYMENUTS is a superb appropriate word for this board." Is YOUR personal opinion.
People will believe in lyme if they knew more about it, when was the last time you seen a commercial for Lyme Disease, or any public announcement for it. And the only reason anyone searches for Lyme disease on the internet is because they know someone who has it or suspect that they have it themselves and are searching for answers.
I have changed several doctors, because of the lack of knowledge and their willingness to not hear what I am saying about myself and the disease that I am fighting. No, I never went in with an attitude, or angry at them and ready for battle.
I have brought in books and web print outs and was told, we do not have lyme in our area, and if we do - its very uncommon.
-------------------- OK...I'll play your silly games.
Finding my happy place.
Brenda-Lee Posts: 126 | From Florida | Registered: Aug 2007
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sometimesdilly
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posted
moderators- are you checking out tonysgirl?
thanks- dilly
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Sometimes dilly, no need, this will be my last post here. I should have made that clear before, my bad.
Posts: 157 | From connecticut | Registered: Feb 2007
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sometimesdilly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9982
posted
oh, ok, good enough.
maybe LymeEurope would be more to your liking.
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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sometimesdilly
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Member # 9982
posted
yuck. just read more of this thread.
"Peace" strikes again, I see.
Heiwa, please don't listen to instigation, and don't feel a need to explain a dang thing.
Nothing good or in good faith is being offered here, just poison.
Trust your gut-- hugs, dilly
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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tonysgirl, you said (quote) "Lastly, please don't tell me to break up my post for neuro lymies, I AM a neuro lymie and have no problem reading it." (end quote)
-
I'm confused. But I could only read that last line of your post so I might have this out of context.
Many of us with neuro lyme have lots of vision trouble and vertigo. Maybe some don't. But many of us cannot read more than two or three sentences without a line - or two - of white space. It's just a big patch of grey and makes vertigo just swirl.
It's also easier for everyone to read when it's broken up a bit. Just less stressful on the eyes - which have to fight just to handle the light and flickering of the screen anyway.
It would be ever so nice if you might reconsider your formatting for future posts if you want all of us to read it and be able to offer suggestions to questions you may ask.
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
When it comes to educating docs who don't know much about Lyme, who believe that ``we don't have Lyme here'', or who believe the IDSA guidelines, I've found one way to get them to think.....
I talked to 2 of the 3 veterinarians in this area and found out that they find Lyme and other TBDs in dogs that have never been out of the area, and that they are treating them with several rounds of doxy (or other meds), as necessary.......
So, when I get the standard answers from a doc that is `misinformed', then I just mention what I found out from local veterinarians and let them ponder THAT for awhile. I think docs tend to pay more attention to their `peers' than their patients. If they are interested, they can always call up a local vet and find out for themselves. If they are not interested, at least I know I've placed a rather large `seed of doubt' in their minds about what they THINK they know.
I'll refrain from commenting on the other issues being discussed here. Opinions have been voiced and now I think readers can determine for themselves what to take away from the discussion.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by sometimesdilly: moderators- are you checking out tonysgirl?
thanks- dilly
What are you, 10 yrs old?! Mods are you checking out how people like Dilly are making your board seem like a cult!
Truthfinder
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Member # 8512
posted
For LymeNet 'rules' for posting on this board, please click on the "Privacy Statemetn" icon at the bottom of the page.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by tonysgirl: This is why the public doesn't believe us. It's because of crap like this. I guess LYMENUTS is a superb appropriate word for this board.
PS Don't bother trying to tell me as a NEWBIE what I can and can't say. Trolls come along often, but I am not one of them. It's people like Peacesoul and myself that need to do some activism and get this show on the road with some proof of validity. No one in the real world would look at this board and believe it not to be filled by people who are in dire need of medical/mental help. Not because of Lyme either, but because they have nothing better than to hijack posts and complain and rag all day long! How do you people survive if you don't work! How can you read this board day in and day out, be real. How do you deal and post this garbage all day?? I don't get it. What I am trying to say is, there is no legitimacy to this board anymore and that's a shame. Especially for people like California Lyme who sincerely try to help. She needs to spend her time and effort where it is needed most, with people who want to get better and actually change the climate towards Lyme disease.
Lastly, please don't tell me to break up my post for neuro lymies, I AM a neuro lymie and have no problem reading it.
TGirl, I agree with all that you said here except that you are not going to come here anymore.
Please, no need to leave the board. There are SO MANY geat people here that offer up so much productive knowledge, that the good drown out the bitter hateful bunch. True that Callyme is a great person with lots to offer. Kudos to Callyme :-)
Calling others derogatory terms like "duck" and "troll" is an expression used when one has a lack of calm.
Just be grateful that lyme has not made you an angry person. It's sad because hardships should bring lessons. Some let pain rot them, some let it enlighten them
You're part of the enlightened group, so stick around and show others this site can be a prosperous educaitonal place.
sometimesdilly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9982
posted
if you're happy and you know it say QUACK QUACK
(QUACK QUACK!!),
if you're happy and you know it say QUACK QUACK
(QWACK QWACK!!!
if you're happy and you know it and your face does really show it,
if you're happy and you know it say QUACK QUACK
(QUACK QUACK!!!!!)
dilly - (else is edited).
[ 02. February 2008, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: sometimesdilly ]
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
Tracy, love your point about Dr's being informed by vets.
I think since lyme is being talked about more, there are more dr's who are willing to listen.
I also guess it depends which area one lives. If a small town dr knows the local vet, he may not turn someone away so quickly, but a big city dr will totally lack the knowledge.
I live in a large city, and when I brought my lyme theory to my GP, she had to take out her medical book to read about it.
I believe everyone fighting lyme are pioneers and need to educated and fight, even at the expense of being labelled as "nuts". The next generation of lyme patients will be the ones who benefit from it.
For those who are angry at being treated bad, come on, use that energy to motivate you to keep up the "good fight". It's imperative that we be heard.
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by sometimesdilly: if you're happy and you know it say QUACK QUACK
(QUACK QUACK!!),
if you're happy and you know it say QUACK QUACK
(QWACK QWACK!!!
if you're happy and you know it and your face does really show it,
quote:Originally posted by sometimesdilly: maybe now that you are resting cases, perhaps you could also take a rest from being a super-duper blue meanie ?
map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
I have had my eye doctor(new) & my gastro(new)doctor say to me since Dec. "if you had an auto-immune disease, that would explain it".
I've decided both of these doctors are trainable. The gastro is a good friend. He knows me personally and has for 20 yrs.
The eye doc is young and I beleive what he learns from me, he can use to help other patients. Same with my gastro doc. He has many lyme & company patients that he isn't aware that their GI problems are related to vector borne illnesses.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
Heads up people! It appears there is another new moon coming.
EVERYONE DUCK & COVER !!!!!!!!
I'm sorry. I have had no duck luck with conversion as of yet, but if I get a good tact I'll be sure to come back & post it.
As you were..... (or hopefully not as it seems to have become rather unpleasant on this thread)
Feel better people!
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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sometimesdilly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9982
posted
ali "duck and cover.."
the pickled-dill nut
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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sometimesdilly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9982
posted
back one last time to this fascinating topic.
i don't believe for a second that it matters whatsoever in the real world whether or not any person or every single person with TBD calls some doctors "ducks."
big deal. words, words, words, sound and fury, signifying nothing.
in case it isn't obvious, those on the Other Side don't exactly care what we have to think or say about diddly, including our own health.
are there some well-meaning ducks out there? yeah yeah yeah, yada yada.
pickled dill nut
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
quote:Originally posted by sometimesdilly:
are there some well-meaning ducks out there?
Just my opinion-
If they were well meaning, I should think we would not be inclined to call them ducks because they would actually try to understand & help us.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by sometimesdilly: in case it isn't obvious, those on the Other Side don't exactly care what we have to think or say about diddly, including our own health.
are there some well-meaning ducks out there? yeah yeah yeah, yada yada.
pickled dill nut
If your character on this board is any indication of who you really are, I can't blame dr's for not listening.
Maybe the "quacks" really aren't the dr's after all........
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Can we please stop insulting each other here. This board is intended for support, not personal attacks.
Thank you.
Sincerely, a lyme-sufferer who is extremely sensitive to deliberate infliction of emotional pain by people who are supposed to be trying to help each other.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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- (else is edited).![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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I have had no duck luck with conversion as of yet, but if I get a good tact I'll be sure to come back & post it. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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as it seems to have become rather unpleasant on this thread)![[group hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
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the pickled-dill nut
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