CaliforniaLyme
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Member # 7136
posted
Antibiotics can cause bleeding problems from Vitamin K deficiency. Vitamin K is NOT in most multivitamins and it is not contra-indicated during abx use unlike some other vitamins. If you are on longterm antibiotics, you may think about having some Vitamin K supplementation to protect your guts! ************************************************* 1: Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 1990;60(3):245-51.Links Antibiotic-induced vitamin K deficiency and the role of the presence of intestinal flora.Shirakawa H, Komai M, Kimura S. Department of Food Chemistry, Faculty of Agriculture, Tohoku University, Sendai, Japan.
Cephalosporin antibiotics with N-methyl-thio-tetrazole (NMTT) side chains have been known to be associated with the development of hypoprothrombinemia. However, it has not been fully established whether these symptoms are induced by an inhibition of vitamin K production by intestinal microorganisms or by an inhibitory action of these antibiotics on endogenous vitamin K metabolism. Therefore, an attempt has been made to clarify the above-mentioned ambiguity by using germfree mice in which primary vitamin K deficiency can be established within a short experimental period. Germfree (GF) and conventional (CV) ICR male mice, 8-13 weeks old were used in this experiment. Vitamin K deficient (Def) and menaquinone-4 supplemented diet (MK-4) were fed to the mice in both rearing conditions. In the antibiotic-treated group, sodium latamoxef (LMOX, 300 mg/kg B.W./day) was intraperitoneally administered once a day, and in the control group the same volume of saline (Saline) was administered. Severe vitamin K deficient symptoms were observed in the GF-K-Def-LMOX group, and both prothrombin time (PT) and activated-partial thromboplastin time (APTT) values were prolonged on the 8th day of the experimental period compared with the GF-K-Def-Saline group. Furthermore the mortality rate of GF-K-Def-LMOX group was comparatively higher than that of the Saline group. This study has provided evidence that vitamin K deficiency is amplified by an administration of LMOX even in the absence of intestinal flora.
PMID: 2276882
EXCERPT:
1: Indian Pediatr. 2003 Jan;40(1):36-40.
A study of Vitamin K status in children on prolonged antibiotic therapy.
Bhat RV, Deshmukh CT. Department of Pediatrics, Seth GS Medical College KEM Hospital, Parel, Mumbai 400012, India. [email protected]
Vitamin K deficiency is known to cause coagulopathy and bleeding in patients on prolonged antibiotic therapy.
This study was conducted to evaluate the status of vitamin K deficiency in hospitalized children on prolonged antibiotic therapy and its role in reversing the coagulopathy.
A prospective non-randomized study was conducted on children on antibiotic therapy at a tertiary care hospital.
Coagulation abnormalities were also seen to be more in children with greater grades of malnutrition, on a more prolonged course of antibiotics and in children who were critically ill in intensive care.
We suggest Vitamin K prophylaxis in severely ill patients, on extended periods of antibiotics and inadequate diet to prevent morbidity and mortality.
PMID: 12554916
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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jamescase20
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posted
good find!!! your right, I had read about this years ago, but forgot about it. Vita k is awesome, and even normals need it!
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TerryK
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Member # 8552
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Good info! I muscle tested that I needed to add vit k to my vitamins after I started my lyme treatment so I've been on it since then.
When I researched why I might need vit K, I found that the good bacteria in the gut produce vit K. If the good bacteria are decreased by abx you may be low on vit K. I've also read that cholestryamine (used for biotoxins) can lower vit k but apparently it is rare. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12688565
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
Black tea has vitamin K.
One warning about vitamin K. A co-worker was taking Coumadin for a heart condition. When he went in for his check up they found his blood was thicker than before despite an increased dose of Coumadin.
Finally they said "What are you eating to cause this". He said I am not eating anything different, the only thing I changed was drinking Black Tea instead of Green Tea. The doctor chewed him out for this because they had given him a sheet of things not to eat or drink and Black Tea was on the list for this reason. It thickens the blood.
D Bergy
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Natural sources of vitamin K -- Vitamin K is abundant in green leafy vegetables such as spinach and lettuce. Cauliflower, kale, cabbage, and broccoli are one of the important vitamin K sources. Green leafy vegetables satisfy almost half of the dietary needs of vitamine K supplements. Apart from that, vitamin K is plenty in wheat bran, organic meats, cereals, kiwis, avocados, bananas, meats, dairy products, eggs and other soy products.
Chicken egg yolk, cow liver, butter and cheese offer you plenty of vitamin K1, an essential dietary form of vitamin K. It is also known as phylloquinone. It is also available in mayonnaise
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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CaliforniaLyme
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Member # 7136
posted
YES Goofy- GREAT list!! Claudia at LymeNet Europe posted that about diet stuff too- says if you do it through diet you don't need supplementation*)!!! Here is her list re diet:
Natural sources: Vitamin K is found in green leafy vegetables like spinach, broccoli, asparagus, watercress, cabbage, cauliflower, green peas, beans, olives, canola, soybeans, meat, cereals, and dairy products. Cooking does not remove significant amounts of vitamin K from these foods. People who eat a balanced diet including these foods are likely ingesting enough vitamin K and do not require supplementation.
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Might I also suggest that Vitamin K is in Nettle Tea. I buy mine loose and use it to make infusion. Infusions are teas that are left to soak the leaves for 12+ hours. Nettle has a VERY earthy flavor (some say like dirt), but I like to mix it w/ other herbs (peppermint, raspberry leaf) for flavor.
I took Nettle infusion when pregnant and my child did not need a Vitamin K shot--his blood coagulated so fast, they could barely get a drop of blood for the PKU test--like the story above--the nurses questioned me as to WHAT I was taking that caused such fast clotting.
My preference is to get whatever I can from diet and infusions, rather than pills. I hate pills and I'm taking so many of them now.
Posts: 524 | From Hudson Valley, NY | Registered: Jul 2007
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TerryK
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quote:My preference is to get whatever I can from diet and infusions, rather than pills. I hate pills and I'm taking so many of them now.
Yes, I agree. The problem for some of us is that we don't digest food very well. Abx has done a number on my ability to digest food plus I have a parasitic infection apparently. I'm on another protocol that requires avoidance of many of the natural herbs so I take a ton of vitamins at the moment.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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pamoisondelune
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Member # 11846
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I take Vit K2 menaquinone-4 (="menatetranone"), for osteoporosis. Its dual function is to get calcium into the bones and keep it out of the heart arteries. I take it in pill form that i buy from www.relentlessimprovement.com.
It is naturally found in egg yolks, cow butter, liver, and certain aged cheeses such as Emmenthal; none of which i've eaten for decades!
Vit K1 is phylloquinone, the one found in green leaves. I take Vit K2, menaquinone, it's different.
I read reports on PubMed, that 6 months of Vit K2 menaquinone-4 at 45 milligrams (sic) per day given to post-menopausal women in Indonesia caused increased bone density. Same for ovarectomized rats.
Posts: 1226 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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CaliforniaLyme
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Member # 7136
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Mamala- YES- and nettle tea was used by Native Americans for arthritis and still to this day!! There are some great studies on its healing properties. We have a vertiable forest of stinging nettles on our property and we make nettle tea and also nettle SOUP which is pretty good and makes us feel woodsy*!!! Good stuff!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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