Topic: Has anyone dealt with a bartonella relapse?
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
We hear a lot about babesia and Lyme relapses. Has anyone dealt with a bartonella relapse?
The reason I ask is that Dr JS's book talks about having to treat bartonella three times before it's really gone.
Thoughts?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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aklnwlf
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5960
posted
Hi CD57,
I wouldn't doubt it. I've been in treatment since 2004 and since Dec. 2006 been struggling with Bart.
Personally I think my relapses are due to the fact that I've never been treated long enough, everything is pulsed and soon as I show improvement orals are tapered off.
I've relapsed many, many times.
So I'm looking at Dr. J. S. also.
Was treated in 2007 for 5 months on Lev/Septra/Tindamax combo that didn't work for me.
That's all I've had for Bart. Now am on a Cipro/Biaxin/Flagyl combo.
But it's still pulsed. So will see.
From those that have pm'd me and recovered from Bart their treatment was very different than mine.
Not pulsed and alot longer.
Hope this helps.
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6168 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I'm a patient of Dr JS. I first tackled Babesia with Zith and Mepron, became Babesia-free, then tackled Bart and Lyme with high doses of Olive Leaf extract. (The olive leaf extract was an experimental treatment that I'm not sure he has written about yet.)
I had a Fry test, and Bart is gone! Dr. S explained though that often Bart is driven deep into the tissues with treatment, and tests will show it is gone, but after a while it is released from the tissues and has to be tackled again.
It has been about 5 months and I will be getting another Fry test soon to see if Bart has come back. Dr. S also explained to me that Bart is known to come back after stressors.
I have to move to another state and Dr. S. was advising me not to for a few months, because I will very likely relapse with Bart since moving apparently is a huge relapse factor for it.
-------------------- "Never underestimate the power of a few committed people to change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead Posts: 290 | From New York | Registered: May 2007
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hiker53
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6046
posted
Dr. S has published 3 cases and he told me about them on the phone, but those 3 cases were people with severe psychiatric problems that might accompany bart. Not all people have those problems, though, so maybe not all people need to be treated 3 times. Who knows? Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8931 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Yeah, those may be the ones he profiled in his article "Ignore Bartonella And Die" (scary).
My LLMD told me to take olive extract as well, but it was for viruses. He wanted me on the Seagate brand, 6 capsules/day. I switched it out for Buhner's resveratrol.
And no, Adam, I don't think anything's been "proven". I think Dr JS is basing some of those premises based on what he has seen. Part of the problem with this disease. For those of us infected with BLO vs the strains of bart they can test for, we're shooting in the dark, right? And BLOs may be similar to brusicella or mycoplasmas rather than straight up bacteria, which may make them harder to kill.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Which book by Dr JS are you talking about? Has he finally published his Bart book?
Hubby took olive leaf extract for probably 4 - 6 months several years ago -- he took 2 capsules with lunch and 2 capsules with supper. For him it cleared up antibiotic induced diarrhea. Not sure if it really did anything for Bart or not.
Hubby and I have a really hard time separating out his Bart and Babs symptoms.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Rianna
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11038
posted
Yes I know a few people that have had to treat Bart several times as they relapsed, but make good progress again when starting meds.
I assume its because when you stop the bart meds it breaks out of the tissues and bone marrow as it thinks its safe so you have to keep zapping it, I also assume it gets less with every treatment round.
Did you LLMD advise you to take trental with your levaquin for further drug penetration??
Can you share more with us about your experiences? When you say "Babesia-Free" or "Bartonella-Free" did you improve symptomatically at all?
Please give us all the information you can as this is very encouraging and worth looking into. I don't know about others, but speaking for myself, I would much rather use herbal alternatives than highly-toxic antibiotics.
Thanks.
Posts: 85 | From Texas | Registered: Dec 2007
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Rianna
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11038
posted
Olive leaf is used by many LLMD's and Complmentary Therapists, it is known as the stongest natural antibiotic available and is used for Bacteria/Virus's & viral co-infections.
Dr S is not alone in using this for Lyme and Bart as many studies have been done on Olive Leaf and Grapefruit Seed Extract (which is a very strong alternative to Flagyl/tinidazole as a cyst buster). I beleive the trials were run by Brorson and Brorson (2 of the best lyme researchers in sweden)
Again Olive leaf is used as normal practice by my LLMD and also I have known many other doctors use this. As is many of the other antimicrosomals available at Nutramedix Cumanda/Samento etc. So there are many alternative or complementary treatments to antibiotics.
posted
When I used the olive leaf extract I used it alone. Dr. S had me work up to tolerance, which for me meant 15 capsules, 500 mg--I took 5 at breakfast, lunch and dinner.
I did this for 3 weeks without any other meds. Then I was tested and there were no organisms. Dr. S said however that at first it can appear that there are no organisms, but if I was tested again, sometimes there can be some Bartonella, as I guess it gets pushed deep into the tissues with treatment and then can resurface again??
I am currently awaiting recent lab work to see if I have relapsed. I have also been under a lot of stress recently, and Bartonella is apparently known to come back with stress.
I am currently on minocycline and flagy and Dr. S did say that if I felt adventurous I could also add olive leaf into that mix--but mino kicks my butt hard enough!
As for how I felt when Bart free, I believe I had less anxiety and depression. I feel now i may have relapsed, but I don't know if the Bart is back or if I'm reacting to all the stress I've been under for the last few months.
For me when Babesia was gone I noticed improvement. I had air hunger and dizziness a lot to where I nearly passed out a few times, so when Babesia was gone I felt I had more endurance.
-------------------- "Never underestimate the power of a few committed people to change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead Posts: 290 | From New York | Registered: May 2007
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Does Dr JS rely primarily on the Fry Lab bloodslides to determine whether Bart and Babs are gone? Also, how long did you wait after treatment before retesting?
Asking because hubby's LLMD did not believe that a negative bloodslide from Fry after Babs treatment was conclusive. Think the LLMD was right -- treatment with Alinia and Artemesinin has brought back Babs symptoms.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I don't think JS relies just on Fry, but right now I can't think of what else he uses.
I waited about 3 months before being retested.
Honestly, I just "feel" Bart is back. I will let you guys know...
-------------------- "Never underestimate the power of a few committed people to change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead Posts: 290 | From New York | Registered: May 2007
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
how much is the fry lab work -to check for bart or babs ?
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quote:Originally posted by Alv: how much is the fry lab work -to check for bart or babs ?
You'll have to discuss the specifics with your LLMD, but mine (as well as most others I've seen posted on here) was $495 for the complete panel.
Here is there web page as well. Hope that helps.
Posts: 85 | From Texas | Registered: Dec 2007
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
I dought olive leaf is any dif then extract, personally for me, I took both at once, but in capsule form, and I did get stinging pains, and I hear thats from bart die. Oh yeah dr S also says now to take ZHANGS HH caps for bart.
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tailz
Unregistered
posted
GenaD, most likely moving is a factor in relapses because a person's exposure to the electromagnetic and microwave fields from area cell phone towers changes.
interesting about the work in europe, particularly that brorson and brorson actually published on grapefruit extract.
have they published also on olive leaf?
mo
-------------------- life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage -- anais nin Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077
posted
Is burning skin a symptom of bartonella die off? It had subsided for awhile, but now has come back with banderol use. I don't know if it's herx of just a flare of the infection.
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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CherylSue
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Member # 13077
posted
When I substituted cumanda for the banderol, my burning symptoms came back. I'm back on the cumanda and hopefully it will settle down. I hear Dr. S recommends cumanda as a moderate bart killing herb. Maybe, I'll add the olive leaf, too.
My LLMD Dr. C says the burning skin is a result of toxin die off and can be from any of the infections.
What is the title of Dr. S's book soon to be released?
Thanks, CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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