posted
Dont think you cant get bart from a kiss.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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So, is this the question: "How does bart spread?"
or "Can my pet's kiss give me bart?"
& -- are we also talking about people ??
Details from LINKS, AUTHORS, STATEMENTS OF FACT . . . ?
A lover's (and pet-lover's) guide to health ?
Even a peck from our relatives who may "miss" our cheek now and then ? Oy, Vey !
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[ 07. February 2008, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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lymebytes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11830
posted
Well I will tell you what my ILADS Md said. That if my husband and I were not treated at the same time we could ping-pong the TBD's, he then said, "I mean through saliva".
So who knows if he was looking for more business or actually warning us....don't know.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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ohhh . . . well, as Valentine's Cupid is out there working to bring lonely hearts together, this is certainly something to consider before "kissy-face" activity comes up.
I can see it now, all new questions for those little Valentine's hearts candy . . .
posted
Well, since I can't hold a job in the real world, this seems like the perfect opportunity to market those tongue condoms I've always been dreaming about.
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posted
Clarissa, I agree 100%! Somethings we just have to find harmony with and get well with it there (pets sleeping on our beds, licks from pets, contact with humans).
Tailz, you might be on to something there! With the burgeoning of these infectious disease, that could be a huge success! Better patent ASAP!
Posts: 85 | From Texas | Registered: Dec 2007
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
clarissa, i also completely agree with you.
Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4715
posted
Thanks for your kind agreements. Because of my Bart, I could get totally OCD over this "saliva-passing" possibility but I will end up with a huge void in my life.
I love my animals and I love kissing!
I pray it cannot be transmitted that way because I was a make-out bandit during my teens, 20's, well yes, 30's...gosh, guess I still am! (not recently, of course, but when I'm better...)
The day kissing is "bad & dangerous" is the day I just go plain nuts and throw caution to the wind.
posted
PEOPLE. Its true...one statement SHOULD convince you if you think about it.
Bart is called cat scratch fever for a reason!
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
My husband does not have bart .... I still know three of the other guys I've kissed .... none of them are sick. I had bart.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
Good, I know I have spread it to at least 1 other but that was over 6 yrs, I am not saying its happening everytime, BUT, its called cat scratch fever because thats how its spread and if sliva didnt spread it, now how could a cat scratch infect u? It couldnt.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Adamm,
Have you researched transmission on line ?
As for if any of us gave this or that to someone else along on the trail of love, we can't know who had what first . . . just remember the good feelings and memories.
The link below may put that all in perspective. (excerpt: " . . . Bartonella are transmitted by insect vectors such as ticks, fleas, sand flies and mosquitoes. . . ."
====================================
This is just one site. A place to begin.
While Wiki is a public site it does often have good information - just search other sources, too. I love their layouts, charts, and graphs. Very easy on the eyes.
This article is about the bacteria. For the disease, see Bartonellosis.
Bartonella (formerly known as Rochalimaea) is a genus of Gram-negative bacteria. Facultative intracellular parasites, Bartonella species can infect healthy people but are considered especially important as opportunistic pathogens.[1]
Bartonella are transmitted by insect vectors such as ticks, fleas, sand flies and mosquitoes. At least eight Bartonella species or subspecies are known to infect humans.[2]
In June 2007, a new species under the genus, called Bartonella rochalimae, was discovered.[3]
This is the sixth species known to infect humans, and the ninth species and subspecies, overall, known to infect humans.
HISTORY
Bartonella species have been infecting humans for thousands of years, as demonstrated by Bartonella quintana DNA in a 4000 year old tooth.[4]
The genus is named after Alberto Leonardo Barton Thompson, a Peruvian scientist born in Argentina.
Bartonella was found to be a tick borne pathogen in 1999.[5]
Several species are human pathogens carried on rats.[6]
In 2001 doctors treating Lyme disease first reported that their patients were co-infected with Bartonella.[5]
Multiple reports of this finding seem to indicate that Bartonella is not only a tick borne but a tick-transmitted pathogen;[7]
however, actual transmission via this route has not yet been proven.
INFECTION CYCLE
The currently accepted model explaining the infection cycle holds that the transmitting vectors are blood-sucking arthropods and the reservoir hosts are mammals. Immediately after infection, the bacteria colonize a primary niche, the endothelial cells.
Every five days, a part of the Bartonella in the endothelial cells are released in the blood stream where they infect erythrocytes. The bacteria then invade and replicate within a phagosomal membrane inside the erythrocytes.
Inside the erythrocytes, bacteria multiply until they reach a critical population density. At this point, the Bartonella has simply to wait until it is taken with the erythrocytes by a blood-sucking arthropod.
PATHOPHYSIOLOGY
Bartonella infections are remarkable in the wide range of symptoms an infection can produce: the time course (acute or chronic) as well as the underlying pathology are highly variable.[8]
Bartonella pathophysiology in humans - Chart of ten strains - at link
TREATMENT
Treatment is dependent on which strain of Bartonella is found in a given patient. While Bartonella species are susceptible to a number of standard antibiotics in vitro--macrolides and tetracycline, for example--the efficacy of antibiotic treatment in immunocompetent individuals is uncertain.[8]
Immunocompromised patients should be treated with antibiotics because they are particularly susceptible to systemic disease and bacteremia.
Drugs of particular effectiveness include trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole, gentamicin, ciprofloxacin, and rifampin; B. henselae is generally resistant to penicillin, amoxicillin, and nafcillin.[8]
- full article, charts, graphs, links & REFERENCES at URL above.
sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
When a cat scratches you, the saliva from the cat's nail gets in your blood.
When you kiss, the bacteria, if it's in saliva, goes into your digestive system where much of your immune system is located.
My hubby of 35 years does not have it. Neither does the guy I dated for two years or the guy I dated for a month (sorry, my dating history is so boring).
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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TerryK
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posted
quote:So who knows if he was looking for more business or actually warning us....don't know.
hmmm... from what I can tell, LLMD's in general do NOT need more business. They can hardly keep up with what they already have. BUT if I felt that my doctor might be just trying to get money out of me then I'd go somewhere else.
I suspect that bart and babs are like many other infections, if you have a good immune system and not a lot of other infections or some really nasty infection like borrelia, then you can knock the infection down, no problem.
Bart is a slow growing infection from what I've read so it may take time to get really sick from it if you don't have borrelia or babs with it.
Then there is the whole idea behind body terrain which could also be part of the picture. Makes sense that overall health and genetics will play a part in immunity.
If you got saliva into your blood stream from an infected person then I think you would probably get it but if going through the gut via the mouth, perhaps it is destroyed by the stomach acids or??
Let's face it, most doctors wouldn't know a case of bart if they had it themselves and without studies we can really only go by the expertise of the few doctors who likely know something about it. Our LLMD's.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Six, You must have been posting at the same time that I was posting.
you wrote: My hubby of 35 years does not have it. Neither does the guy I dated for two years or the guy I dated for a month (sorry, my dating history is so boring).
haha! WE know you are really covering up a sordid past.
I did have h. pylori and it is a bacteria so there are some bacteria that can live in the stomach. Many doctors don't think you should worry about passing it between partners but then there are a number who believe that it can be passed between humans via saliva. Without studies, it is all just guessing.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
quote:Originally posted by TerryK: My hubby of 35 years does not have it.
haha! WE know you are really covering up a sordid past.
Yeah, I must be, I've only been married 23 years ... had Lyme for 35, LOL.
I also had klebsiella and citrobacter in the gut .... not to mention, all the good bacteria we are trying to keep by taking probiotics.
My point was that with a cat scratch it's different because the cat's saliva goes right to your blood stream, so it's not the same as a kiss.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4715
posted
Sixgoofykids: I'm glad to hear this news, otherwise I could be arrested for serial Bart spreading (as I think I've had Bart since I was a child).
I'm still friends with a lot of my ex's and they don't have Bart (to my or their knowledge).
I "think" the whole dog/cat saliva thing is IF the animal has fleas, licks at their paws and then licks you in an open mucous membrane, it might be transferred as it's carried in flea feces.
My LLMD said try to keep animal licking from the neck down...but he did not say it in a definitive/factual manner...more in a "proceed with caution" way.
I don't know anything about cats BUT aren't we learning that cat scratch is different from BLO per Dr. B?
I'm personally more worried about the unprotected sex I had with my Bells Palsy boyfriend 15 years ago. Talk about a red flag!!
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
People can be infected with Bartonella for many many moons before they know they have it...
IF they ever know. Sometimes the symptoms are less obvious and not the knock-down kick your butt stuff.
James is right when he says to be warned. Be cautious... but not to the extreme of freaky.
Be cautious, the same way you would be with a bus. Anyone could be hit by a bus at anytime. But that doesn't mean we go screaming and running in the opposite direction when we see one.
cottonbrain
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13769
posted
not to frighten us even more, but what about infants?
if their immune systems are still developing, could we sneeze on them and give them bart or cos?
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
I thought it was the introduction of flee excreta into the
blood that's responsible for transmission upon getting scratched.
Also, can't bart be self-limiting, or at least relatively easy
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