posted
I am going to start to treat bart soon. I am scared of Levaquin but will take whatever works best.
How does Minocin, Rifampin, and others compare? I am treating Babesia with mepron, plaquenil, and zithro. My LLMD says plaq & zithro work for Bart too. Has anyone used those 2 to treat bart? From what I've read they may treat bart but are not the preferred abx.
I have CNS involvement, anxiety, bladder problems, severe electrical leg contractions and shocking, and had very swollen lymph nodes years ago. So swollen surgery was suggested then but I did not do it. I have not gotten better and think bart could be the problem.
Thanks for any info. I want to be able to discuss this when I see her on Thurs. She is reluctant to treat bart as I do not have the "classic" symptoms and did not test positive.
Posts: 262 | From nj | Registered: Dec 2007
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
Have any petechia? I got them from my bart (almost all are on my
arms--don't know what significance this has.)
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posted
My bart symptoms seem to be headpains,fatigue like my body weighs a ton,pain under my feet,in the shins and knees.
I tried levaquin,bactrim,and rifampin+mino. I didn't take levaquin for long enough only 12 days cause then i got tendonitis and had to quit. But Bactrim and Rifampin definitly helped.
I never had a positive bart test but I definitely herxed strongly on these abx.
Posts: 81 | From Italy | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
Bartonella was the only co-infection that showed up on my FRY smear, but I still have my doubts.
To answer your question, and contribute to this discussion, my symptoms (in order of prevalence) are: severe cognitive issues (brain fog), extreme fatigue, digestive issues, and a debilitatiing general weakness.
Some other symptoms that are present: visual sensitivity to light, anxiety/mood swings, and the list could probably go on and on.
I know that cognitive issues such as brain fog are common in all of these diseases, but I would like to know how many that are diagnosed with Bartonella have this as their chief complaint? And if so, are other co-infections, whether tick-borne or otherwise (viral, parasitic, etc) present?
Thanks.
Posts: 85 | From Texas | Registered: Dec 2007
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
I had cognitive and GI symptoms from bart.
Three months on Levaquin (plus mino, plaquenil, lariam, malarone, nystatin, artemisia) and I was cured! I'd rather a shorter time on a harsher drug than a longer time on a less harsh drug that also has side effects.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Brain fog is sort of a catch all for all of these TBDs. Candida causes brain fog too.
For me, bart is cognitive/mood issues (including brain fog), shin/foot pain, tremors. I've been on Rifampin/mino/doxy for almost 8 months and we are going two more (with Buhner herbs added) since mine was so bad. I was/am scared of Levaquin so was ok with Rifampin. It seems to be working.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
My Lyme doctor told me today that Zithromax is one of the top drugs suggested for Bartonella. Levaquin is another one for a resistant strain of Bartonella.
Posts: 18 | From NC | Registered: May 2007
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sixgoofykids
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Member # 11141
posted
Gabrielle, yes, all at the same time ... my LLMD is rather aggressive. I was on heavy abx for one year. Now I'm weaning off and onto herbs.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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tailz
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posted
My knees hurt and pop, and sometimes my legs - why don't my feet ever hurt?
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adamm
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posted
Yeah, I have bart, and the cognitive stuff is my biggest complaint
posted
Positive (high on the scale) for babesia, bart and Lyme. Being treated for babesia and bart with Mepron and Zithromax by top LLMD.
After 2 months and missing 10 days due to pharmacy screw up- Im feeling better. Babesia and Bart was untreated for almost 9 years. Lyme was undertreated several times 3-4 weeks of Doxy several times over 9 years, but never really got better.
Major complaint- cognitive and fatigue.
-------------------- Positive 10 bands WB IGG & IGM + Babesia + Bartonolla and NOW RMSF 3/5/09 all at Quest
posted
Thanks for the responses everyone. Especially since this wasn't my post originally!
Posts: 85 | From Texas | Registered: Dec 2007
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aklnwlf
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5960
posted
Hi NJgirl,
For me the significant Bart symptoms that I've noticed are the pain in the bottom of the feet, almost everyday headaches and head pressure, nodules under skin in backs of thighs, sides of shins and upper arms, lots of skin problems such as petachiae, red pinprick spots, flesh colored 'warts' that bleed profusely until they come off.
Anxiety and sleep problems, heart pounding and cognitive problems.
I'm on Cipro/Biaxin/Flagyl. I tried 5 months of Levaquin/Septra/Tindamax which didn't work for me.
I've heard that Zith/Levaquin works. I think the Zith is what most LLMD's put you on first. I've never been on it myself.
I'd stick with the Zith/Plaquenil that you're on. Especially if you start to notice an improvement.
I know for me everything I've tried I'd relapse within a week of so after being put on a decreased protocol.
But from what I've heard the Zith is a good choice. Hope this helps.
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6918 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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lymebytes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11830
posted
I tested pos or Bart, I couldn't tell you my symptoms as I have LD and Ehrlichia + 4 active viruses equalling 44 symptoms in all at one point or another. But I never had foot pain, I use to get a hot flash in my foot if that counts. Lots of neuro - but don't know if that is viral related - as titers drop so do some symptoms.
Biaxin is what (once ILADS pres)my LLMD treated me with for over a year. He proclaimed me bart free months ago. I don't know, he sure is pleased, I am left skeptical...I sometimes wonder if I have 'bart' attacks, where I do experience shin pain, but that literally could be from walking or foot pain, who knows, I certainly don't, I wish I did.
Again with all I have had I couldn't pick each symptom and neatly categorize it. I wish!
Rianna
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11038
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by adamm:[QB] Have any petechia? I got them from my bart (almost all are on my - arms--don't know what significance this has.)
I was covered in petechia that got worse during Babesia treatment - my LLMD said its so classic of Babesia
Rianna
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11038
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by njgirl14: [QB] I am going to start to treat bart soon.I am scared of Levaquin but will take whatever works best.
I am just about to start treatment for Bart, I am starting with the Burhner Herbs then I start Trental with High dosage Magnesium and levaquin (only 250mg as im 8.5st & very small framed) the Trental is given to open the capillaries for drug penetration and the Magnesium is started to stop any potential tendon damage from levaquin - I am also to rub magnesium oit in my body.
As far as Levaquin goes, TRUST your LLMD and listen to him/her and not all of the horror stories, as so many people here have got well on Levaquin.
kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797
posted
My LLMD won't use Leviquan due to the need for magnesium.
Bart uses magnesium as a biofilm shield to protect itself.
He uses zith, then adds rifampin. My daughter has only been on those. She is now on minocycline.
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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sixgoofykids
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Member # 11141
posted
quote:Originally posted by Rianna: I was covered in petechia that got worse during Babesia treatment - my LLMD said its so classic of Babesia
Rianna
Thank you for posting this. I recently got back on Malarone and the petechia and rash on my forehead came back. I haven't seen either in a while.
I was thinking, "Oh great, bart is back, too!" I'm glad to hear it can be babs! I have no bart symptoms going on 4 months. Levaquin seemed to do the trick for me.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Rianna
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kelmo:[QB] My LLMD won't use Leviquan due to the need for magnesium. Bart uses magnesium as a biofilm shield to protect itself.
Thats exactly what my LLMD said and that is why levaquin and magnesium is used at the same time when first starting levaquin with trental for drug penetration + Burhner herbs, he said the bart depletes the magnesium so much and uses it from the body that is why you can get the tendon problems with levaquin.
He does use Zith and Rifampin alot but with myself he said we needed to go this route as its so profound and I trust him totally.
posted
I apologize if this diverts the train of the discussion somewhat. My wife and I just got our results from Fry - she's a "4" on the 5 point scale for Bart and I'm a "2." We're still muddling our options as to what to do next. In y'alls experience, did the doctor focus on treating Bart (or other coinfections) first, or did they go after the Lyme?
What are the abx against Bart that are also used against Lyme, if any?
Thanks guys!
Posts: 4 | From Georgia | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
njgirl14: I have CNS involvement, anxiety, bladder problems, severe electrical leg contractions and shocking, and had very swollen lymph nodes years ago
Considering levaquin as a choice, it might worsen these symptoms (see package insert or any official list of side effects:
1. CNS disorders, that can become irreversible, depending on the dose, length of treatment and personal conditions. Among the most severe brain injuries one can get extreme anxiety for years, profound depression, suicidal thoughts, brain impairment, short term memory loss, panic attacks, seizures, allucinations and many more.
2. Incontinency, urgency to urinate, frequent urination, burning urination, loss of bladder control, that can last many years or become permanent.
3. Nerve injury widespread over the whole body with fasciculations, cramping, numbness, and all sorts of abnormal electrical responses of muscles. All kinds of neuropathies, that can become irreversible (see warning on the package insert).
4. Not so frequent, but levaquin also causes inflammation of the lymph nodes.
So, it does not seem an antibiotic very compatible with your current symptoms, neither with the symptoms of many of us.
I have written privately to some 30 people that took long treatments of levaquin to treat their bartonella. I asked them for their experience some months or a year after they ended the treatments, when supposedly levaquin does all its damage. Some 20 responded and no one admits to be better now than before taking levaquin. Perhaps the other ten or so got completely cured and are not interested in the lyme world anymore.
Posts: 94 | From canada | Registered: Nov 2006
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daise
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posted
Steve,
Possibly Septra, a combination drug, works on both Lyme and bart, but it depends on what antibiotics your LLMD thinks is best for you.
As far as which is treated first, Lyme or co-infections, again, that depends on what your LLMD feels is the best antibiotics program for you.
For example, lets say herxes may be expected to be really bad for you, so an LLMD might hold off on treating one or the other, for a time.
Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4715
posted
Steve and all,
My LLMD put me on Zithromax & Rifampin (alternating days) to treat Bart. I'm in my 4th month and am definitely improving.
The first 2 mos were hell but it slowly improved.
I've also heard that high doses of the herb Cumanda (google) 80-100 drops daily can also kill Bart. It's a powerful herb so you have to ramp up very very slowly. Most people don't go higher than 30 drops 2X a day.
It's probably best to do abx first and then follow up with herb.
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