tdtid
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posted
I had my yearly physical today and oddly, my PCP has been supportive of anything my LLMD is doing. She won't treat lyme, but let's him do his thing.
Today, she said I was due for my tetanus shot but knew that some of her lyme patients opt not to have them when their immune system is compromised. I was aware that many don't do FLU SHOTS, but had never heard this.
She told me to check with my LLMD, so I have a call in to him, but since it isn't an emergency, I just left a message on his machine that he won't get until Monday, asking about this.
But since I have all weekend to think about it, I was wondering if anyone has had any trouble with tetnus shots. I figured I was due, would just do it and was SURPRISED my PCP would even be hesitant, so was just wondering about others first hand experiences with this topic.
-------------------- "To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006
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Keebler
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Tetanus is a very good thing to prevent.
This is just my experience. Lots of variable here.
April Fool's Day 1987 -
I had been battling a sinus infection for months and on several abx, etc. Had been on a sulfa drug a few weeks before and then different abx which were not working.
That day the doctor put me on a new Rx decongestant and a re-run of the sulfa drug from a few weeks' prior.
I had just gotten a beagle puppy who would jump up on me and I'd get scratches, so I asked my doctor for a tetanus shot. He thought it would be good as the dog scratches could carry tetanus. This was a hunting dog, so it really got around on weekends, but even just in the soil in a backyard, this might happen.
So, that day I got the 2 Rx (decongestant) and sulfa drug and a tetanus shot. Altough I'd been ill for months with sinus stuff, nothing was said about holding off.
Now this may be the most important player but we'll never know for sure: I had been on a medical fast for a few months - just a mix-up pudding-like meal. No other food. This was through a doctor's office but, knowing what I know now, it was stupid and NOT enough nutrition by a long shot.
Also, as would later be dx years later, porphyria may have been connected. Anyone with porphyria should not fast and should eat small, frequent, meals. And some of the medicines I was taking may have caused excess porphryin build-up which can cause problems such as this, even death, in certain instances.
About an hour after the tetanus shot I developed severe itching all over. My doctor told me to take a benadryl and a baking soda tepid water bath. That did not help.
I began having jerking movements and was taken to the ER where I started having myoclonic seizure movements.
[ edited to add: it was not until I read the Tetanus page at Wiki that I remember I also arrived at the hospital with lockjar. Could not move my mouth at all and I don't think I could even make sounds to grunt. My jaw did not open until long after the shot settled down the whole-body jerking movements. ]
They gave me a shot that calmed it all down, but I felt stupid for months - really - I must have lost major IQ points and was very slow and tired. And the sudden short jerks went on for a couple weeks.
My doctor said that the shot had horse serum and I should avoid that and tetanus shots in the future.
He also said that perhaps I had had an allergy to the sulfa - although I'd taken it a few weeks before just fine. Sometimes an allergy can appear where there was none before.
No mention of the diet - I learned about the dangers years later.
no mention of MERCURY in the vacinne, but highly likely and it may still be in tetanus vaccines, so check on that.
I think my situation contains too many variable to say it was the tetanus shot, but caution is good.
Years later, after CFS dx (and before lyme dx) a flu vaccine caused me years of bed-bound time. YEARS. Never knew about the mercury in the shot ('93).
Still, tetanus would be no picnic. In fact, the vaccine has likely saved many lives. However, it - and what else is in it - requires inquiry so I hope you get the answers you need. Good luck as you research this.
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[ 25. February 2008, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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-------------------- You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. Posts: 807 | From South Dakota | Registered: Jul 2005
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Beverly
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Hi tdtid,
There are so many different opinions on vaccinations. My son received some vaccinations as a baby and had very bad reactions to them, so I stopped and I am glad I did. I didn't know he had Lyme at the time.
A book I read called *The Vaccine Guide* by Randall Neustaedter OMD taught me a little bit, and the tetanus shot is one that actually works. Many of them don't even work very well and are full of all kinds of bad stuff.
My son and I have been chelating Mercury and I have been in the process of getting my filling out since 05. So for us we probably wouldn't do it.
Good luck with your decision.
-------------------- God Bless You! Everything..is just my opinion. Posts: 6638 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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Keebler
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posted
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You can request vaccines without mercury (timersol or thimersol).
Thiomersal (INN) (C9H9HgNaO2S), commonly known in the United States as thimerosal, is an organomercury compound (approximately 49% mercury by weight) used as an antiseptic and antifungal agent.
It was developed and registered under the trade name Merthiolate in 1928 by the pharmaceutical company Eli Lilly and Company, and has been used as a preservative in vaccines, immunoglobulin preparations, skin test antigens, antivenins, ophthalmic and nasal products, and tattoo inks.
In the U.S., the European Union, and a few other affluent countries, the compound has been phased out from vaccines routinely given to children.
Packaging the vaccines in single-dose vials eliminates the need for bacteriostatics such as thiomersal.[citation needed]
. . .
In the U.S., the only exceptions among vaccines routinely recommended for young children are most formulations of the inactivated influenza vaccine.
Several vaccines not routinely recommended for young children contain thimerosal, including DT (diphtheria and tetanus), Td (tetanus and diphtheria), and TT (tetanus toxoid). Other vaccines may contain a trace of thiomersal from steps in manufacture.[1]
Also, four rarely-used treatments for pit viper, coral snake, and black widow venom still contain thimerosal.[4]
Outside North America and Europe, many vaccines contain thiomersal; the World Health Organization has concluded that there is no evidence of toxicity from thimerosal in vaccines and no reason on grounds of safety to change to more-expensive single-dose administration.[5]
- full article at link above
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tdtid
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posted
Thank you for all of your opinions. I'm anxious for my LLMD to get back to me on this one and just see what he is going to say.
For those of you that pass on things like this, do you just wait until you get a wound that they say, "hey, when was your last tetnus shot" and then will get one if you look like you have no choice?
I know when I traveled to Asia before I knew I had lyme, I had a horrid time with my typhoid shot but thought it was just me. This wasn't something most people would even need, but traveling to this part of the world, I just did as the "travel clinic" suggested.
But I know I've been getting tetnus every 10 years as they recommend but it wasn't until this appointment when the doctor said some lyme patients don't do it and to check with my LLMD. I have to respect that she atleast didn't just jab me and say this is what we do...bang, end of story.
I know I haven't gotten the flu shot since being diagnosed, but yet I never had trouble with one before, even when I know I had lyme, but was misdiagnosed. So you just never know how you will respond.
I really was just looking for various opinions on this particular shot from others that have either had it or not had it and why. I'll probably go the route my LLMD says, but while mulling it over the weekend, I thought I'd get opinions until he gets back to me.
Cathy
-------------------- "To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006
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David95928
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I've had Lyme a long time and have had several tetanus shots with no problems. Dave
-------------------- Dave Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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CherylSue
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My LLMD said not until I'm better. Postpone the shot. I would assume if you stepped on a rusty nail or had a puncture wound you would then have to have one.
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
I was wondering since tetanus is a bacteria, can you even get it when your already on antibiotic's?
Kathy
-------------------- You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. Posts: 807 | From South Dakota | Registered: Jul 2005
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Keebler
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posted
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Tetanus can be in soil - or where else ? There are other methods of transport besides a cut from a rusty nail, etc. Not to scare you, but you might want to research professional sites so you are informed in your decision.
Generally, IMO, for healthy people (and only if a mercury-free vaccine) I think having had the tetanus booster BEFORE exposure is best.
However, just is JMO and I've not researched it lately.
You may do fine, just ask your LLMD first - or wait.
If you do get the shot, you might want to do it on day off and be sure to have food cooked, etc. so you can take excellent care of yourself.
Tetanus is a medical condition that is characterized by a prolonged contraction of skeletal muscle fibers. The primary symptoms are caused by tetanospasmin, a neurotoxin produced by the Gram-positive, obligate anaerobic bacterium Clostridium tetani.
Infection generally occurs through wound contamination, and often involves a cut or deep puncture wound. As the infection progresses, muscle spasms in the jaw develop hence the common name, lockjaw.
This is followed by difficulty swallowing and general muscle stiffness and spasms in other parts of the body.[1] Infection can be prevented by proper immunization and by post-exposure prophylaxis.[2]
The clinical manifestations of tetanus are caused when tetanus toxin blocks inhibitory nerve impulses, by preventing the release of inhibitory neurotransmitters GABA and glycine. The result is disinhibition, or increased relative excitation.
This leads to unopposed muscle contraction and spasm. Seizures may occur, and the autonomic nervous system may also be affected.
The frequency of action potentials at the neuromuscular junctions increases above a threshold at which point muscle fibers enter a state of tetanus, a state of sustained maximal contraction. The term tetany refers to sustained muscle contraction that is not caused by tetanus.
* [incomplete] Association with rust
Tetanus is often associated with rust, especially rusty nails, but this concept is somewhat misleading. Objects that accumulate rust are often found outdoors, or in places that harbor anaerobic bacteria, but the rust itself does not cause tetanus nor does it contain more C. tetani bacteria.
The rough surface of rusty metal merely provides a prime habitat for a C. tetani endospore to reside. An endospore is a non-metabolising survival structure that begins to metabolise and cause infection once in an adequate environment.
Because C. tetani is an anaerobic bacterium, it, and its endospores, will thrive in an environment that lacks oxygen. Hence, stepping on a nail (rusty or not) may result in a tetanus infection, due to the ideal bacterial breeding ground provided by the low-oxygen environment of a puncture wound.
* Prevention
Tetanus can be prevented by vaccination.[5] The CDC recommends that adults receive a booster vaccine every ten years, and standard care in many places is to give the booster to any patient with a puncture wound who is uncertain of when he or she was last vaccinated, or if the patient has had fewer than 3 lifetime doses of the vaccine.
The booster cannot prevent a potentially fatal case of tetanus from the current wound, as it can take up to two weeks for tetanus antibodies to form. In children under the age of seven, the tetanus vaccine is often administered as a combined vaccine, DPT vaccine or DTaP, which also includes vaccines against diphtheria and pertussis.
For adults and children over seven, the Td vaccine (tetanus and diphtheria) or Tdap (tetanus, diphtheria, and acellular pertussis) is commonly used.[5]
* Several types listed. One is:
Generalized tetanus is the most common type of tetanus, representing about 80% of cases. The generalized form usually presents with a descending pattern. The first sign is trismus or lockjaw, followed by stiffness of the neck, difficulty in swallowing, and rigidity of pectoral and calf muscles.
Other symptoms include elevated temperature, sweating, elevated blood pressure, and episodic rapid heart rate. Spasms may occur frequently and last for several minutes. Spasms continue for 3-4 weeks and complete recovery may take months.
* Epidemiology
(MAP at site) Tetanus cases reported worldwide (1990-2004). Ranging from strongly prevalent (in dark red) to very few cases (in light yellow) (gray, no data).
Tetanus is a global health problem since C. tetani and Geravium tetani spores are ubiquitous. The disease occurs almost exclusively in persons who are unvaccinated or inadequately immunized.[1]
Tetanus occurs worldwide but is more common in hot, damp climates with soil rich in organic matter.
This is particularly true with manure-treated soils, the spores are widely distributed in the intestines and feces of many non-human animals such as horses, sheep, cattle, dogs, cats, rats, guinea pigs, and chickens.
In agricultural areas, a significant number of human adults may harbor the organism. The spores can also be found on skin surfaces and in contaminated heroin.[2]
Tetanus, particularly the neonatal form, remains a significant public health problem in non-industrialized countries. There are about one million cases of tetanus reported worldwide, causing an estimated 300,000 to 500,000 deaths each year.[2]
In the US, there are fewer than 100 cases and approximately five deaths each year.[6]
Nearly all of the cases in the US occur in unimmunized individuals or individuals who have allowed their inoculations to lapse, whereas most cases in developing countries are due to the neonatal form of tetanus.
Tetanus is not contagious from person to person and is the only vaccine-preventable disease that is infectious but is not contagious.
posted
My sister's friend's mom liked to garden. She got a scratch of some sort and got tetanus. It wasn't a pretty way to die.
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posted
My Daughter got one a few months ago because she stepped on carpet tacks and I couldn't remember when she had her last one.
She is very ill, but didn't seem to have any added problems from the Tetnus shot.
-------------------- ICEY Posts: 468 | From Las Vegas NV | Registered: Jun 2005
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Truthfinder
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posted
Getting a Tetanus booster back in about 1985 was one of the possible triggers that brought on my Lyme-type symptoms. I had a rather bad reaction to the shot back then but didn't think much about it until over 20 years later when I found out I had Lyme....
Also, it may be of interest that the neurotoxins produced by the Tetanus bacteria are very similar to those produced by Bb. (Sorry, I can't remember which Lyme researcher published that information.)
This might explain why some people with Lyme can react very strongly to the Tetanus vaccine. Maybe it just looks too much like the `known enemy' to the immune system of some Lymies.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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tdtid
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posted
Wow....I really do appreciate all the opinions. I was thinking that when I first posted this, I would get a bunch of responses say, "get the shot, I was fine" or else "no, it just made me worse".
But this really does seem to be pretty evenly going BOTH direction.
Since I need to wait on my LLMD over the weekend since this was hardly an emergency question, I'll still do what he says and if he says get it, hopefully I'll be like the ones here that have said they had no complications.
I do thank all of you for your own personal experiences.
Cathy
-------------------- "To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I don't want to derail the conversation onto a tangent, but I have a question related to getting a tetanus shot upon wounding oneself that popped into my mind a few weeks back when a friend was talking about her father cutting himself recently...
why would a tetanus shot be recommended or beneficial after a person cuts/wounds oneself? as far as I understand it, the purpose of vaccines is for the immune system to develop antibodies to the given antigen so in future cases of exposure to that antigen (then in the form of the disease as opposed to a weakened/dead form of it), the immune system will recognize it promptly and attack with the already-developed antibodies instead of going through the normal immune response and having to develop antibodies at that point with the virus circulating
so I don't understand how taking a vaccine upon potential exposure to a virus will be beneficial for the current exposure since the virus will already be circulating and the immune system will be just as likely and quick (quicker in all likelihood) to detect and develop antibodies for the virus than the corresponding antigen from a vaccine administered after exposure... unless it's the case that a vaccine has some mechanism to trigger antibody response quicker than the virus itself, which I don't think is the case, then I can't for the life of me figure out why the vaccines are recommended in these instances... if anything, I think it could potentially be more harmful than beneficial as it may increase the load of the virus in the body, especially for any vaccines that are attenuated, live forms of the virus...
just something that's been on my mind recently since I had this conversation and also after seeing a recommendation on the news for anyone at a club in the city to get a hepatitis vaccine... again, I don't want to go off on a tangent, just curious if anyone has an answer for this...
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Keebler
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posted
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Truthfinder quote: " . . . Also, it may be of interest that the neurotoxins produced by the Tetanus bacteria are very similar to those produced by Bb. (Sorry, I can't remember which Lyme researcher published that information.) . . ." end quote
That quote really stuck in my mind and helped explain a lot - helped me accept that I did, indeed, have quite a lot to learn and was not just a wimp.
Biochemistry of Lyme Disease: Borrelia burgdorferi Spirochete/Cyst _by Prof. Robert W. Bradford and Henry W. Allen
Excerpt from the first paragraph:
. . . A discovery of great importance relating to a toxin produced by the causative agent of Lyme disease, Borrelia burgdorferi, has been linked to a similar toxin produced by the organism Clostridium botulinum. . . .
- full article can be downloaded for free with Adobe - go to link above.
--
Edited to add: Oh, wait - Clostridium botulinum is botulism. Well, that's no picnic, either.
-
[ 24. February 2008, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Truthfinder
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Very good question about how a Tetanus shot can help fend of an infection from a recent cut or puncture! I have no idea! Frankly, I never thought about it - just accepted it since it is common practice
Thanks, Keebler - you are right - after I posted my previous statement, there was something nagging at me about it. The Lyme neurotoxin is more closely related to the botulin toxin, but the Tetanus toxin is another close relative.....
Here's an excerpt from the book The Homeopathic Treatment of Lyme Disease by Peter Alex of Germany (HomeopathyWest Publishing):
quote:Several cases point to a link between Lyme Disease and vaccination. An American microbiologist has recently isolated a botulin-like toxin as a metabolic product of the borrelia bacterium. Botulin toxin is better known as the metabolic product of Clostridium botulinum, a spore-forming bacterium; it is moreover the strongest bacterial poison known to man. Another bacterium of the same genus, Clostridium tetani, plays an accompanying (not causative) role in Tetanus.
As we know, the Tetanus vaccine, which is administered with increasing frequency by allopathic medicine, is involved as a causal agent in the origin of chronic neurological diseases. The connection with Multiple Sclerosis has been frequently demonstrated.
In a case from my own practice, a young woman became ill with MS shortly after receiving a second tetanus shot. As we know, many neurological cases of Lyme Disease are misdiagnosed by specialists as MS. It would thus be desirable to establish which of these factors exerts an influence. But here we need more accurate observations using a consistent recording format.
Both Ledum and Hypericum are common remedies used in the successful treatment of Lyme Disease.
Historically, homeopathic Ledum and Hypericum have been the most prominent remedies used in the treatment of Tetanus.
And both Ledum and Hypericum are often used for bites from animals or insects.
So, based on the remedies often used in treatment of Lyme and Tetanus, there appears to be some similarity between the two diseases in the ways they manifest in the body.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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tdtid
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Wow...this topic is getting deep. I wish I was able to use to brain cells tonight to comprehend. Maybe I'll be more clear tomorrow. Fog is bad tonight.
Thank you for the deep insight and will get back to this in a day or two when I'm thinking more clearly. Hopefully my LLMD will give me the advice I need since from what I'm seeing, this could fall either direction with people fighting our battles.
Cathy
-------------------- "To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I have had lyme for many years. In the past year I had a tetnus shot and the flu vaccine with no problems. My physician said it is a good idea to have the prevention as not to add anything else to the many symptoms I already have. Good luck. Kris
Posts: 15 | From Connecticut | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
I had a tetanus shot 9 months before I was diagnosed with Lyme disease, but had obvious lyme symptoms.
I had a terribly bad reaction to the shot. I lost control over my muscle function and had difficulty breating. It was after the shot I started having muscle twitching and tremors.
Before getting infected with Lyme disease, I had had a handful of tenatus shots and never had the slightest problem. I am convinced that is was the lyme disease that triggered my bad reaction, and I would personally never have another tenatus shot.
Posts: 187 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Have your dr test you for tetanus antibodies, if they are present at a certain level, you can skip the shot... merthiolate is poison to many and the adult tetanus boosters all have merthiolate. Childhood tetanus vaccines have none. Some people have a detox defect in the liver that makes the mercury from merthiolate accumulate. It DOES NOT belong in the human body. The idea of immunizations/vaccinations is sound, the practice is distorted by the profit motive...
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Keebler
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tdtid
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posted
Again, such great information. I'm going to bring this topic back up since Wiseforit was asking about this topic after she cut herself on a soup can top.
I still haven't heard back from my LLMD on this topic but since I'm heading out of the country for a few weeks, he probably wouldn't have wanted me getting it before then and I see him shortly after I get back, so will ask him face to face on his personal opinion.
Thanks again to all those that had personal experience.
Cathy
-------------------- "To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006
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tdtid
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posted
Again, such great information. I'm going to bring this topic back up since Wiseforit was asking about this topic after she cut herself on a soup can top.
I still haven't heard back from my LLMD on this topic but since I'm heading out of the country for a few weeks, he probably wouldn't have wanted me getting it before then and I see him shortly after I get back, so will ask him face to face on his personal opinion.
Thanks again to all those that had personal experience.
Cathy
-------------------- "To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006
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I posted this in my initial inquiry and I am posting it here too!
Thank you for your research and replies! __________________________
Truthfinder, I did go to the link you suggested and was truly helpful in my thinking about what to do.
I chose NOT TO GET THE TETANUS SHOT. The stitch doctor said he was sure that the soup can wouldn't give me tetanus. He added that stepping on something embedded in soil transfers bacterium from the soil...rust is not the issue...possibility of soil garbage/bacterium is the issue.
The doctor said it is wise to get the tetanus shot every ten years as a preventive in case of accidents.
i've been feeling a little stronger lately and couldn't bring myself to introduce the possibility of messing with my system with the tetanus shot... the odds were too dicey.
I am relieved and grateful for all the sound research folks have shared on this topic.
Best to all,
wiserforit
P.S. Dr. Luddite, thanks for your quick thinking. I did ask for an antibody titer rather than the shot and the doc said tetanus antibodies don't show up!?!? Duck reply? True? False? Luckily I didn't have to get the shot... I valued your advice nonetheless...smartness in you!
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posted
Incidently, I don't care how well immunized you are against tetanus, if you are exposed to a C. Tetanii load that is greater than the capacity of your immune system to react to, you will develop the stigmata of tetanus, and likely die.
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