posted
Well I have Lyme and my husband does too. (Don't know about any other co-infections??)
Anyway, he has been off and on irritable over the years,that I think we have just gotten used to it, saying that's just the way he is...
However after doing some reading and finding the possility that this could not really be the "real him" but bacteria in his brain, I feel like I have hope to make it all (hopefully) go away.
So, what I want to know is: does anyone out there have experiences like his, where you are just easily angered, and are so enraged that you just come unglued??
And then poof you're fine again?
He's such a good guy, great Dad, with wonderful values, but I think this just takes over in him...
If you have experienced this, am I kdding myself? Is it possible that treatment could help him?
He's been on Omnicef and now Zith. Was very non-irritable for 2 weeks and now explosive again!
Thanks for any insight!
Laura
Posts: 232 | From MN | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I have the rage like that. When I'm on IV and shots it gets better. I have become extremely hateful and irritable at times. My 'real' personality is a low key, calm person but this disease makes me act like a monster with a hate and anger that overtakes my disposition.
Posts: 19 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2007
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
Dear Laura....could he be herxing?
Stirring things up a little?
My husband is like that except more manic when not treating Lyme.
I have to admit I have "lost" my temper on more than one occasion only
To come back down to earth very quickly and wonder where in the world did
That come from?
I don't do it nearly as often anymore. I've learned to recognize it most
Of the time and remove myself if possible until my unaffected part of my brain
Comes to the rescue.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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feelfit
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12770
posted
ME. I get these irritability and rage issues...like a switch is activated and then I'm all calm again.
Since beginning treatment this has been getting WAY better, but not totally gone yet.
Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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It comes and goes and over the years I've gotten better at handling it. I've had it for over 20 years and always thought I just had a bad temper.
The think that helps me the most is for someone to bring it to my attention. My Wife will say Steve, stop for a minute and think, are you really mad at anything?
That usually works but not all the time. It's a tough one for both sides of the barrel, hang in there.
Steve
Posts: 406 | From Rhode Island | Registered: May 2007
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posted
yes Geneal I do think , or I should say I hope that it is a herx, and things are being "stirred up " some...
That would mean progress anyway..
Feelfit, he says it is exactly like a switch that turns off and then he's calm again, you nailed it..
It is so frustrating to be on the other side of this...I actually feel sorry for him that he is so out of control, so frequetnly...it must be awful to feel sooo angry, about nothing.
Has this affected anyone's family????
Posts: 232 | From MN | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Yes! I had that and it's gone! Have hope that it will go away ....
It is something you have no control over. I read your post to my husband, laughing and asking how I should answer .... he said to say it's normal. He's experienced it.
The solution was either to hold me even though I was being mean, or to ignore me. Somehow he could tell the difference on which to do .... heaven help him if he chose the wrong one, LOL.
Hang in there, it gets better.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
My son, age 5, has had the rages, or flashes of anger, as part of his lyme symptoms as well.
He will get into moods and growl, i am SO angry!
He has on a number of occasions had impulse control issues (throwing things and hitting) and he has said some very threatening things.
All of which is often followed up by hugs and kisses from him. he says that the words just come out of his mouth, that he doesn't mean them.
It is getting better as he gets further into his treatment, and for what it is worth, as a child he has not had as much time in life to develop the self control skills that an adult would have, which i think exacerbates the behavior.
Also, as he is getting better, and thus is more able to understand and manage what is happening within himself, I have been explaining that Lyme is not an excuse for hitting or threatening, and that he has to learn how to control these impulses, which he has been pretty responsive to.
It has only been in the past month that he was well enough to be able to hear and respond to such things.
SO in answer to your question, at least from my expereince, Lyme can cause symptoms of rage and angry outbursts.
posted
Oops, I forgot the "poof, you're all better behavior."
yup, my son has that too. You can almost set a clock to when he is going to go into one of his moods (3-5pm, any week night) It used to be every night, now it's about once a week, after school, when he's tired, can't settle down, worn out from holding himself together.
And yes, he can be an absolute terror, then, bam, he's back to being a sweet kid.
Kind of like having two kids, wrapped into one body.
When he gets into these moods, he also has very clear physical changes. His face is pale, the circles under his eyes are very pronounced, and his ears are bright red.
Might want to check the hubby out for that.
Best of luck to you, it can and should get better.
posted
My daughter, who is 20, and has Lyme and Babesia has these rages but they are subsiding as treatment progresses.
She would throw things and destroy things and after a meltdown and a good cry it was almost as though a pressure valve had been released. She would be calm and exhausted after.
Later she would say "Did that really happen?". My wife and I comfort her in those times because we know it's the Lyme "talking". We really walk on egg-shells when this happens but it eventually subsides.
Her LLMD, Dr. R in NY, calls it Limbic Rage for the part(s) of the brain that are involved.
If I'm remembering correctly he said it was either a type of seizure or almost like a seizure.
May you and your family make it through these tough times!
Posts: 80 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
lymemommy - this might not be the place to bring this up...if not, my apologies.
My son, who does not have Lyme, used to get the exact same symptoms, pale skin, really dark circles around his eyes, and red hot ears when he ate chocolate or anything with chocolate in it. He was found to have an allergy to it.
Normally a calm child, he would become a little demon after eating it.
Posts: 80 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Feb 2008
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Interesting thought, never, considered a chocolate allergy, as there is no history of that in our family.
My son was cdc positive for lyme, had over 20 em rashes just prior to diagnosis, and this behavior was not there prior to when we think he was infected.
from what I gather,these kinds of behaviors are not uncommon in kids with lyme. He has had a lot of neuro-psychiatric symptoms, including episodes of ocd, I only mentioned the rage and impulse control stuff as it was pertinent to the thread.
I'll have to see if there is any chocolate connection to his behavior, although at this point I think it is lyme and probable co-infections, which is what his llmd is thinking too.
Yes I have this too! It is exactly like a switch being turned on and all my caskets are going to blow- I'm a exploding volcano, and really there is no rational to it AT ALL...
It really feels like my brain is POPPING out of my head....then once it's over...ahhhh the pressure is released and I'm ok...
I have found it to improve tremendously with treatment! I still have these days..but they area happening less and farther apart..SMIELS!
I can still remember at the begining of this all (before I was diagnosed) the switch turned ON and I threw the glass I was drinking on the porch and shattered it....
I remeber throwing things accross the house, whatever was nearest to me...it was very upsetting to be acting like this, I didn't understand it at the time....
afterwards, I was stunned- I did that? That wasn't me...why did I do that? I knew something was seriously wrong.... it wasn't me just being this horrible angry mean person...which is so opposite from my real personality...
it really is like being taken over by some other 'force' ...very strange ...and not fun..but it will get better...
I used to have these crazy crying spells too- where I'd just cry for an hour straight holding my pillow, using a box of tissues, and then- ohh it was over and I was fine...
With the irritabilty, I have recently found that the moment I feel it- I step outside myself and say- this irritabiltiy isn't me...I become my own observer...
It really helps dissolve it and not let the mind become so attached to it and grow into something even more irrational...good old Eckhart Tolle...
SIXGOOFYKIDS: "The solution was either to hold me even though I was being mean, or to ignore me. Somehow he could tell the difference on which to do .... heaven help him if he chose the wrong one, LOL."
I love this...it's so true....heaven help him if he chooses the wrong one...LOL...my boyfriend will love this...ha....ha
my family and boyfriend have been wonderful in dealing with this and trying to love and comfort me through these rough times....it's been a rough HARD HARD road, as you all know-...but there is so much beauty that is coming from it too...so blesssed...
Love to all~ Fawne
-------------------- Energy flows where attention goes~ Posts: 302 | From Kauai | Registered: May 2007
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posted
I can't tell you how meaningful it has been to hear everyone's stories and insights!
It just gives me even more hope that this will go away someday.
This truly sheds light on to my situation...
As for the red ears, I have heard that it is a Lyme sx, and my son gets these off and on, but not always with irratibility or anything..interesting!
Thanks again everyone!
Laura
Posts: 232 | From MN | Registered: Jul 2007
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merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
I have this. I dont like it. I snap a lot. I swear my head must spin around.
I started Abilify last week and it is helping. it is a Mood stabilizer.
Hope you feel better
Melissa
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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LisaS
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10581
posted
Ive gone through three cell phones this year. I tend to throw things in my rages. Not proud of it and its embarrassing afterwards. But at the moment I truly feel like I have no control.
posted
There have been times that I've had rage like this. I've seen many articles documenting states of mind (rage, depression, among others) with Lyme, especially late stage Lyme, once the spirochetes have gotten into the CNS. Sometime something *really* stupid will just set me off to the point of just one shriek or a slam of a door like a six year old and then... I'm over it. This really isn't my normal state of being.
Hope this helps.
-------------------- Mal "Ready?"
Zoe "Always." Posts: 36 | From Pittsburgh | Registered: Oct 2007
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
I really get the out of control emotion scene--I have had that, too. Don't throw things, however. I was much more even-tempered before Lyme.
Something that has worked for me is B vitamins, especially B1. That and a magnesium supplement.
Especially when taking any kind of drug or when ill, the B vitamins get burned up really quickly, and the emotional meltdowns are more intense.
And, these have none of the nasty side-effects of psychiatric drugs.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
Hi,
Bartonella is also renowned for anxiety and agitation. Did his latest irritability bout come on with Zithromax? Zith can work on Bart. I have horrendous Bart herxes, so I'm just throwing that out as a possible coinfection to consider.
Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
I have this rage problem so much at the moment. Actually physically assaulte my brother and we havent spoken since. I try to explain that I need some space and its not me.. It doesnt help that he's an assh*le either
I went off meds and came out in a bartonella rash all over yesterday. scratche everywhere and they disappeared within 20 mintutes. Any help anyone??
LLMD has me off meds for Igenex testing. Cipro did'nt have any effect really. What are my treatment options?? I hate who I have become with this disease. My normal personality is calm and laid back.
-------------------- Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos) Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007. Posts: 648 | From Ireland | Registered: Jan 2007
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kam
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 3410
posted
I just beginning a class on anger management when this hit. How ironic.
Another person I put the program together. I learned a little from her and then was on my own to teach it.
One of these days I will find my notes.
Didn't quite understand rage or anger until this hit.
First time was at a dentist office. I had to walk outside and try and figure out why I wanted to bite the receptionists head off.
It helps me to identify what the anger is coming from and attack it not the person.
I also don't like people when I don't get my sleep...this is magnified with this condition.k
And there are days when I will go out in my power chair and someone will just look at me wrong and I want to go for the throat.
I usually turn around and hibernate in teh house on those days.
Hard when it is the other person. Guess you can just remove yourself from it.
Posts: 15927 | From Became too sick to work or do household chores in 2001. | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
I had the same problem off and on and this past fall it became so severre I ended up in a psych ward for a while with suicidal ideation as well.
I am now taking a mood stabilizer (started first) and an antidepresant and this is helping me considerably with control and more even keel.
Lamictal 200mg
Effexor XR 150mg
These drugs are being managed by a psychiatrist but also my LLMD closely watching out for affects/improvements.
I also started seeing a counselor, this has been very helpful as well.
BJK
-------------------- BJK
Nothing I write here is medical advice...I'm just another lymie sharing how this disease has affected me personally Posts: 175 | From Central Maine | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
Mood-rage-irritability-wide swings.... all mimic bipolar disorder. I walked into my psychs office, with 96 pages printed up on the neuropsychiatric aspects of lyme disease...about as manic a state as I remember getting...and he calmly said..lets try depakote... Two months later, I suddenly realized that my irritability, rage, desire to strangle people for no apparent reason....was GONE!
All these infections affect the central nervous system...the brain. Psych meds work on the central nervous system. While we are killing off the buggers, we need to treat the symptoms. Depakote is used for seizures as well as bipolar. (Yes, I pulled a knife on my husband's boss at the annual holiday party..."red out" I don't remember doing it.)
Check out your mental health options. See a psychiatrist. Look up the neuropsychiatric aspects of lyme disease. The psych most likely will prescribe based on your symptoms.....I do whatever I have to. I take pills because they improve the quality of my life.
-------------------- Lyme is like the flu. You can get it and recover, but you can always get it again. Posts: 607 | From (deer tick)Heaven! Angeles National Forest | Registered: Oct 2000
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It does get better with treatment. It could take a long time though. I am a very calm person and when I was sickest with lyme I was a mean SOB. I never even realized what I was doing until I'd done damage....verbally to people, physical damage to inanimate objects. I really could not control it. After 2 1/2 years of treatment it was alot better but now its just about gone. I've continued with rife treatment/herbs/etc. its now 4 years from when I got sick. Its so nice to have my mental health/personality/me back. It came on with the flick of a light switch, but took years to get rid of.
You and your husband just keep at it.
- Mike
Posts: 153 | From Watertown, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
See the "Yikes" thread for more discussion.
D Bergy
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I can relate to much of what has been discussed in the thread. My life has been totally changed over the last three years. I can be fine one minute and then totally lose it the next.
My wife now wants us to go for help (counseling). Someone earlier mentioned "walking on egg-shells". My wife has said that she and the kids have to walk on egg-shells around me because they don't know how I am going to respond.
I guess I really don't understand how this has totally affected my mental state. My wife doesn't know what to do or how to help. She is busy taking care of our four kids (16-7)and a home business. I feel so alone in dealing with this at times it is overwhelming.
I am currently researching LLMD's and considering switching to a different LLMD who will take a more aggressive approach. The LLMD I have been with since June of 2006 uses a consistent protocol without changing it up concerning the antibiotics. He does add natural products as needed.
Posts: 59 | From Indiana | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Alias, The consistent protocol approach didn't seem to work for me. If you take a look a my other posts you will see, once something stopped working, I have to switch to something else to make progress. My LLMD for the most part used the consistent approach and I would switch different things like herbs, rife, etc. He finally agreed to a different abx at one point and it made a big difference.
Also, I wanted to mention that different drugs and different herbs seemed to help different symptoms. For the mental symptoms, the abx didn't do too much for me except maybe minocycline and tinidozole (not necessarily together).
Also, no Rx was as effective on my mental stuff as the rife machine was. The first time I used it, I got a herx so severe a couple days later that I have a patchy memory of that day.
- Mike
Posts: 153 | From Watertown, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
We had a similar experience with the Rife machine. It seems to work remarkably well on the head for some reason. I think it may be either because of the large water content or the large blood supply.
Conversely, it does not seem to work as well in the areas without good blood flow.
D Bergy
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I can understand. I also hope that these rages and moods and irrational, emotional phases don't reflect who I am at heart...
That said, I am feeling a million times better emotionally since I stopped taking doxycycline!!
I almost started antidepressants and I did start counseling. I don't want to antidepressants, but the counseling is a great thing, even though I no longer feel so crazy, out of control!
-------------------- 09/29/07: bitten since 05/01: omnicef+biaxin+plaquenil 350 cats claw + knotwood thruout. Posts: 227 | From Northern CA (bitten in Illinois) | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
BugBarb Do you really not remember pulling the knife.Was you upset with this person? I posted about doing things like that and having no memory of it a few days ago. It amazes me that we have no memory of it. Has anyone else done things like this and not remember doing it?
klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
I have this problem so bad that I've had to dropp all associations except with a few really close friends whom I never get upset with, and my long suffering husband. I am a hermit and don't answer the phone.
However, 90% of my rages are directed at two people who did horrible things to my family that will severely negatively affect us for the rest of our lives. They live right next door, and we can't afford to move. Whenever I think about what they did, or see one of them, I fly into a rage so bad it sends my blood pressue through the roof. I would be afraid that I might hurt one of them physically, but I would most likley keel over from a stroke or heart attack first, before I had a chance to hurt them. They are not worth dying over, and I don't want to give them the satisfaction.
I tried to get help. The shrink spent only five minutes with me and prescribed Abilify. I only took half of one dose and it had the exact opposite effect of what he told me to expect, ie. it made me so sleepy I could not stay awake, and so moody that one minute I was crying and the next I was laughing hysterically. I was terrified until it wore off, as I had no control over my emotions. I sent back the free samples and did not go back to him.
So, I went to a NeuroPsychologist instead. He did not think I needed any drugs because I meditate regularly, but I can't control this on my own. It is like being possessed. I never used to have a temper. I think the problem is that neither of these ducks knew anything about Lyme.
I am taking L-tryptophan, and it does help to make the rages less severe and also helps me sleep, but it's not enough. I have taken B Complex and tons of Magnesium for years now.
TO BJK - I read your story and my heart goes out to you. Did you have any side effects from the Lamictal when you started it? I am so glad it is helping you.
TO BugBarb - did you have side-effects from the Depakote when you started?
I take 6 other drugs and am afraid to add another one. I wonder if the Abilify made me so sick due to drug interactions. I need all six for the things Lyme has already done to me.
Does anyone have any ideas for me? Thank you, and you all have my empathy. This disease sucks. klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
WoW have I been on the receiving end of so many of these symptoms you all mention. My 27 year old daughter has said so many hurtful things to me over the years I can't even remember them all.
If I didn't know it was Lyme and Co related I would have been gone a long time ago, not to mention the put downs I have gotten from family and friends for being the care giver. They all think she should be on her own and grow up.
We just had an episode not even 2 weeks ago. I had to unfortunately call the police to get her under control!! She was going to run out of a motel room in a strange place. If she was normal, I would have let her go with my blessing!
Then, I had to get into a car with her for 12 hours of insults and rage so we could get home. Her poor DH has also been at the receiving end of these outbursts.
My dang finger still hurts from her trying to take my purse from me because she thought her phone was in it. She has no memory of this.
I know this is not her........until she got bit at 11, she was the sweetest, kindest little girl you would ever want to be around. She was a very easy little girl and baby. The best disposistion ever.
She refers to this as the evil and good person inside one body. The sweet, good one is here most of the time thankfully. She does get irritatable often, but not with the rages.
About a year ago she had a rage so bad it put her into a seizure, we had to call the paramedics it scared us so bad. It is like when she goes past a certain point there is no turning back.
I know for a fact this is all Lyme, babs, Bart, Erich, mycoplasma caused. How could anyone have this many things taking up residence in their body and NOT have emotional/rage problems?
Hang in there everyone, this to shall pass.
HUGS,
-------------------- ICEY Posts: 468 | From Las Vegas NV | Registered: Jun 2005
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I learned a lot about why I have the rages like I do. Just thought I would share and hopefully it will shed some light to others and help them to realize what's going on. It's a scary thing, but now I know!
Posts: 33 | From Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
Hey--
just thought you should know that I've been on Prozac for
the past three weeks, and it's worked wonders for the
mood/personality problems I was complaining about a few
weeks ago.
Everyone reacts differently to these mds, though, and my issues
were, compared to what many here deal with involving this,
extremely] subtle, I gather. I definitely would not
take them without the oversight of a good psychiatrist.
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