posted
Okay - so here's the deal. In the last 48 hours I've had two random panic attacks. I'm not stranger to panic attacks - but prior to this there has *always* been a catalyst.
These two - nothing. Nada. Out of the blue... same feelings, freaking out, shortness of breath, shaking, a few tears, racing heart, racing thoughts...trying desperately to think of what might be causing this but coming up with NOTHING.
Has this happened to any of you with Lyme? I know that there are soom emotional issues like short lived rage, etc, but this hasn't happened to me before.
I took an Ativan, and was better - just like I do when they happen about once or twice a year - and I was okay.
Yikes! I'm *so* not up for this.
Thoughts?
-------------------- Mal "Ready?"
Zoe "Always." Posts: 36 | From Pittsburgh | Registered: Oct 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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How long would these last ? Typical panic attacks are 10-15 minutes.
Even with typical panic attacks, I think there are many physiological connections that are ignored.
With lyme or other TBI (tick borne-infections), the sensation can go on for a day or more.Here are many things to consider:
Also, the inner/middle ear (vestibular system) may have some connection. If your balance center is off kilter, it sends signals to your brain, like hitting the panic button.
And . . . adrenal dysfuntion, too, can trigger the fight or flight "panic" response. The HPA axis is often very much affected with lyme.
If you take any supplements, cordyceps, Siberian ginseng (NOT regular ginseng), and ashwagandha may offer gentle support. Avoid any super charging supplements, even caffeine.
Can you take magnesium with the Rx ? Magnesium/calcium/ zinc are all excellent to help. They need to be balanced, though. Magnesium to the point of bowel tolerance.
MAGESIUM might be your best friend right now.
FISH oil, krill oil - and eating salmon, sardines. (fish oil supplements should be certified mercury free. some fish are not advised due to mercury. Tuna, for example, mentioned somewhere else here).
B vitamins, especially B-5 (for adrenals) and B-6 for calming. B's should be in balance and not too much of B-6. (Book reference below can help with this.)
Of course, it's best to consult with your doctor about any supplements. I realize that some don't have that option. I hope you do.
Hypomagnesium (low) can cause lots of neurological events.
HYPOGLYCEMIA, too, can trigger panic attacks. Be sure to have frequent small meals with complex carbs, protein and good fats all together.
Also, if the liver cannot detox properly through the Cytochrome P-450 pathway, excess porphyrins can build up and result in numerous neurological problems. But that is a huge topic in itself. Being sure to have a steady stream of complex carbs may help offset that.
Toxins can also trigger "panic" as the liver and all other body systems might go a bit haywire, so to speak.
Be sure to limit exposure to chemicals and perfumed air fresheners and if you have a gas stove be sure to use your exhaust fan just before turning on and off . . . and get a swoosh of fresh air in your home everyday.
Avoid sugar and processed foods. Avoid aspartame (nutrasweet)) and all forms of MSG. They are excito-neurotoxins. Many brands of tune contain MSG in a fancy name. You can google search for all the names of MSG.
And, tuna, anyway, is often high in mercury. Heavy metals can also contibute to panic attacks.
But, I assume you are at this site because of lyme.
Others will come along to ask if you have an LLMD, have been tested, dx, etc. but I am too tired to go into all that.
Below are some of the connections of lyme to the longer than typical "panic" attacks that are usually mislabeled. Be sure to to drop the emotional talk when discussing this with a doctor or you'll get put in that very category.
A good LLMD will know how to help, but it is a journey.
Good health habits, including sleep, can make a difference along the way, though.
Avoid, too, any supplements intended to "boost" your energy. Gentle, gentle support - not boosting - is the key.
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Most likely, this is neurological, with liver clearance and infection as a base, not just emotional. However, emotions, naturally, go along with this.
QiGong or yoga might help with that. Massage, too. And know that this can get better.
As you will see in the abstracts below or from articles at ILADS - www.ilads.org - or from the medical library here at the LymeNet site (scroll up and to the left for menu), with treatment for the underlying reason, this gets better.
And, all the possible connections mention above can all sort of go along with each other, cascading. If you can to to a quiet, darkened room (or cover your eyes) . . . maybe listen to soft music . . . but quiet itself . . . blocking out any stimuli that stresses . . . that can help.
Best of luck. It's a horribly icky feeling. I had some for days at a time long ago and had no idea of what was wrong. If you need to explain it to anyone in your life, let them read an article rather than you telling them. The articles usually hold more credibility.
If you like to listen to classical music, Mozart and waltzes (for 3/4 time) are very good for the neurological system. HARP music is very good.
I mentioned Mozart, some of his work is energizing, but "Mozart for Meditation" or "Mozart for Massage" CDs are good. "Mozart at Midnight" is actually rather stimulating. They must have meant for Robin Williams' midnights, I think.
Generally, in classical music, the adagios are the more calming movements and many CDs now have just that.
Again, I hope you can find a sense of calm and hope.
at the bottom of this page, you can see a video of Dr. Perlmutter.
David Perlmutter, MD, FACN is a Board-Certified Neurologist and Fellow of the American College of Nutrition . . . Dr. Perlmutter was awarded the 2002 Linus Pauling Award for his pioneering work in innovative approaches to neurological disorders. . . .
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[ 09. March 2008, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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If you are wondering about lyme, this explains a lot about the thinking of two groups of doctors. It's vital to read before proceeding with any appointments for evaluation.
And . . . support groups near you ? scroll up and over to the left for the link right on this site
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Keebler: [QB] -
*How long would these last ? Typical panic attacks are 10-15 minutes.
Yeah... about that... 20 minutes max, less if I *have an Ativan right away. It's just that there's ALWAYS been a reasonable catalyst (which is why I had the Ativan in the first place). These just came out of the blue - and that's never happened before.
*With lyme or other TBI (tick borne-infections), the sensation can go on for a day or more.Here are many things to consider:
Oh god... I don't know if I could tolerate that, let alone put my guy through it.
* Also, the inner/middle ear (vestibular system) may have some connection. If your balance center is off kilter, it sends signals to your brain, like hitting the panic button.
Balance is okay, but lots and lots of ringing in my ears.
*If you take any supplements, cordyceps, Siberian ginseng (NOT regular ginseng), and ashwagandha may offer gentle support. Avoid any super charging supplements, even caffeine.
I take Source of Life Vitamins, and others... they are really wonderful. I also take chlorella. I take some other meds for med conditions unrelated to Lyme... but I've been on those regimens for 10+ years, so it's a toss up.
*Can you take magnesium with the Rx ?
Not on any Rx yet.
* Magnesium/calcium/ zinc are all excellent to help. They need to be balanced, though. Magnesium to the point of bowel tolerance.
Will keep this in mind.
*MAGESIUM might be your best friend right now.
OK
*FISH oil, krill oil - and eating salmon, sardines. (fish oil supplements should be certified mercury free. some fish are not advised due to mercury. Tuna, for example, mentioned somewhere else here).
I take fish oil and as for tuna - YUK.
*B vitamins, especially B-5 (for adrenals) and B-6 for calming. B's should be in balance and not too much of B-6. (Book reference below can help with this.)
Will do.
*Of course, it's best to consult with your doctor about any supplements. I realize that some don't have that option. I hope you do.
I'm really well versed in supplements in addition to my med regimen... adding the Lyme stuff is going to be adding quite a bit to my already complicated medical soup. oy.
Hypomagnesium (low) can cause lots of neurological events.
* Also, if the liver cannot detox properly through the Cytochrome P-450 pathway, excess porphyrins can build up and result in numerous neurological problems. But that is a huge topic in itself. Being sure to have a steady stream of complex carbs may help offset that.
Can you tell me more about this? Private email would be fine. I'd really appreciate it.
*Toxins can also trigger "panic" as the liver and all other body systems might go a bit haywire, so to speak.
Oh yeah...
*Be sure to limit exposure to chemicals and perfumed air fresheners
ICK ICK ICK
*and if you have a gas stove be sure to use your exhaust fan just before turning on and off . . . and get a swoosh of fresh air in your home everyday.
already do.
*Avoid sugar and processed foods. Avoid aspartame (nutrasweet)) and all forms of MSG. They are excito-neurotoxins. Many brands of tune contain MSG in a fancy name. You can google search for all the names of MSG.
This is a struggle, but it's much better for me than it's been in the past.
*And, tuna, anyway, is often high in mercury. Heavy metals can also contibute to panic attacks.
Tuna. Blech.
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*QiGong or yoga might help with that. Massage, too. And know that this can get better.
Thanks. I meditate and do yoga.
Thank you for your informative, thoughtful and kind help. Much appreciated. Wishing you all the best.
-------------------- Mal "Ready?"
Zoe "Always." Posts: 36 | From Pittsburgh | Registered: Oct 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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thanks for going though and answering.
you asked for more about excess porphyrins. It take more brain power than I have right now, but later or tomorrow I'll have some info. and will PM you.
Also . . . I have some links for tinnitus (ringing in the ears) for you. That's the vestibular / or brain / or liver. Try to think if you have had any loud noise exposure in your life time. Tomorrow, then.
Hopefully, others can offer some helpful suggestions.
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