posted
Can we spread Lyme disease to our partner thru sex?What about our friends,drinking out of the same glass Etc? Sorry to sound so dumb..but this seems to be the best web to get the right answers. Atheana
Posts: 196 | From from a far | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
atheana. Good question. It's been asked before and I think the concensus was that we should believe we are infectious/contagious and avoid sharing food or drinks, and toothbrushes of course. Sex-wise it's not proven though suspected, so safe sex would make sense. Did anyone ever ask about kissing?
I think this is an especially interesting question in the germ-laden world we live in today. MRSA remains terribly infectious and contagious on dry surfaces for an unbelievably long time. Yes, it's a staph bacteria and not a spirochete. Still. . .
It makes me wonder about the ticks (and other vectors)because people have sworn they got Lyme disease from "touching" or pulling off ticks and that they had not been bitten, though of course that's hard to prove--they might have been unknowingly bitten at the time.
On the other hand, isn't it curious that Bb is so hard to grow in the lab, which would make one think it can't live but a split second without a medium.
Again, good question.
Posts: 422 | From Luck home | Registered: Sep 2005
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
A tick does not have to be attached to transmit Lyme--all
it has to do is inject you with some sort of fluid.
I wasn't human saliva was infectious--is there any
documentation of this?
I do remember that someone on this board once said you could
get it from touching an EM rash=-any truth to that?
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posted
If there is actually any documentation that states that Lyme is contagious and can be spread through sex or saliva please post it. I just assumed there was no way I could really be contagious. Though, if it someone can find that we can really spread it by sharing a drink/toothbrush, please post it. That would mean kissing too would spread it-God let's hope it's not!
Posts: 98 | From WI | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
well, who knows? But I think it has been established that it can transmit through sperm and breast feeding.
I think about lyme as HIV in ways of transmission. But who knows, I think there are far to many familys that are beeing affected all of them.
Posts: 347 | From sweden | Registered: Feb 2008
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Read Newbie Links theres lots of transmission files there.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
I still know three of the guys I've kissed before being married and after contracting Lyme .... none of them have symptoms.
My husband has no symptoms. We've been married for 23 years and do not use condoms.
I know this is anecdotal ..... but I really do not think it's transmitted by saliva! It would be more epidemic than it already is if it were.
Many people who live in the same vicinity are going to be infected, not from kissing, etc., but from the ticks in that area.
Sexually? We really don't know. If my husband were going to get it from me, he would already have it .... BUT if I were not in the situation I am in, I would protect my partner from it at least until the disease was in remission.
Congenitally? Yes. You need to be under the care of an LLMD throughout a pregnancy.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
There are no real studies on how contagious BB is. There is much controversy even by the different LLMD's. If you search the board you will find a great deal of threads on the subject.
My LLMD believes 100% that Lyme is sexually transmitted. He treats way too many for it to be a coincidence. I believe it might be more contagious than just sexually. In 1983 my father got a bullseye and was treated with doxy for ten days. He has had health problems ever since. I can trace classic Lyme symptoms back shortly after that incident occured. The symptoms gradually got more pronounced through the years.
There was a article a some time back about a study done in Germany where they cultured Lyme bacteria from door knobs and public phones, etc. I searched but cannot find that article now.
Posts: 649 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2003
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
I remember reading the following which I cut from the following link:
Lyme Q&A A Panel of Experts Answer Our Questions About Lyme Luis Romero, M.D., Ph.D. Svetlana Ivanova, M.D., Ph.D. Sue Massie, CNHP, N.D. Candidate Rick David Bierman, L.Ac
Q: Can you say something more about the potential contagious aspects of the disease?
A: Massie: Lyme disease is potentially contagious. There are numerous scientific abstracts, documented cases, websites, etc. to prove this statement. According to Dr. Charles Ray Jones, Pediatric Lyme specialist, "Of more than 5,000 children I've treated, 240 have been born with the disease. Twelve children who've been breast-fed have subsequently developed Lyme. Borrelia bacteria (Bb) can be transmitted transplacentally, even with in vitro fertilization; I've seen 8 children infected in this way. People from Asia who come to me with the classic Lyme rash have been infected by fleas and gnats." Dr. Gregory Bach, D.O., presented a study on transmission via semen at the American Psychiatric Association meeting in November 2000 in which he confirmed Bb DNA in semen using the PCR test. Dr. Tang states "Transmission may also occur via blood transfusion and through the bite of mosquitoes or other insects." I do not believe we all need to panic, but we should take necessary precautions. I have found time and time again that when one spouse is Lyme-positive, the other spouse usually has Lyme as well.
Q: Do you find that if one family member has Lyme, the other family members have it as well?
A: Massie: What I have found time and time again (myself included) is that people diagnosed with Lyme usually find that several, if not all of their family members, are Lyme-positive as well. There can be several reasons for this. First of all, families are exposed because they share the same environment. For instance, a family can have a home in Howell, NJ, which is rural and highly endemic for Lyme. Their backyard can be all woods, with the family taking walks together. Also, they may have a family dog/cat that frequents the woods, bringing the ticks back to the home, lying on beds/couches, etc. The family is now highly exposed.
When I work with a new client, I always ask about other family members and their health. Every time I hear how a son/daughter/husband/mother/aunt has MS, ALS, kids with ADD/ADHD, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, Alzheimer's, etc., I get suspicious. These are often a misdiagnosis and I usually recommend that these family members all be tested for Lyme. Lyme can also be transmitted person-to-person.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Great information Melanie!
The saddest part of it is how it was created and unfortunately it is only the beginning. These pathogens are only going to get stronger and more prevalent.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Thanks Bob.
Yes, it will remain a 'work in progress' for awhile I am afraid. But, information is power, so we need to try to keep compiling as much as we can.
Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
If Lyme were transmitted through casual contact like sharing a glass, then think about how fast it would spread in groups. It would spread like mono can spread in college dorms. Think of all the people each one of us on this board would have infected.
Nobody else in my life has Lyme or symptoms of Lyme. Not my family, my boyfriend, my ex-boyfriends or my friends.
I'm not talking about sexual transmission here.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
Recovery of Lyme Spirochetes by PCR in Semen Samples of Previously Diagnosed Lyme Disease Patients
OBJECTIVE: Lyme disease, being a spirochete with pathology similar to syphilis, is often found difficult to treat due to the spirochete invading sanctuary sites and displaying pleomorphic characteristics such as a cyst (L-form). Because a significant portion of sexually active couples present to my office with Lyme disease, with only one partner having a history of tick exposure, the question of possible secondary (sexual) vector of transmission for the spirochete warrants inquiry. Additionally, sexually active couples seem to have a marked propensity for antibiotic failure raising the question of sexually active couples re-infecting themselves through intimate contact.
METHODS: Lyme spirochetes/DNA have been recovered from stored animal semen. Recovery of spirochete DNA from nursing mother's breast milk and umbilical cord blood by PCR (confirmed by culture/microscopy), have been found in samples provided to my office.
RESULTS: Surprisingly, initial laboratory testing of semen samples provided by male Lyme patients (positive by western blot/PCR in blood) and the male sexual partner of a Lyme infected female patient were positive approximately 40% of the time. PCR recovery of Lyme DNA nucleotide sequences with microscopic confirmation of semen samples yielded positive results in 14/32 Lyme patients (13 male semen samples and 1 vaginal pap).
ALL positive semen/vaginal samples in patients with known sexual partners resulted in positive Lyme titers/PCR in their sexual partners. 3/4 positive semen patients had no or unknown sexual partners to be tested. These preliminary findings warrant further study. Current a statistical design study to evaluate the possibility of sexual transition of the spirochete is being undertaken.
Our laboratory studies confirm the existence of Lyme spirochetes in semen/vaginal secretions. Whether or not further clinical studies with a larger statistical group will support the hypothesis of sexual transmission remains to be seen. A retrospective clinical study is also underway.
We are reviewing the medical records, collecting semen samples of patients who were previously diagnosed with current and previously treated Lyme disease are bring asked to provide semen, pap and blood samples for extensive laboratory testing. CONCLUSION: With the initially impressive data, we feel the subsequent statistical study on the sexual transmission of the Lyme spirochete will illuminate a much broader spectrum of public health concerns associated with the disease than the originally accepted tick borne vector.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
Scary, isn't it?
Here's my story:
I had had Lyme for quite a number of years and we think that my partner developed it about 9 months after we started having unprotected sex (he got a clinical diagnosis recently, took doxy, herxed, got better, will test soon to find out what it really was).
He was previously very Lyme-aware regarding ticks, knew how to avoid them, checked himself whenever in a tick danger area, and is convinced that he had NOT been bitten in the years prior to this, and while it's still possible he picked it up from a tick without knowing it , the timing is very suspicious.
When we figured out that he was sick, I promptly did the partner notification thing as if I'd been HIV positive or something, and tracked down the former partners I've had unprotected sex with since acquiring Lyme.
On the other hand, my current partner chose to take his chances given the information available to us at the time we were debating unprotected sex (I was symptom-free at the time, which factored into his decision).
Incidentally, for a while, when I was still dating the guy whom I may have infected, I was on the opposite coast from him for several months, and I found that every time I came out West and visited him and we had unprotected sex, I'd find some of my symptoms returning (I travel all the time for work so it wasn't just the stress of travel that was responsible). It could have just been coincidence, too, but I find it really scary in light of the above article (whch I just found today). He was very actively sick at the time.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
The problem is how many folks are asymtomatic. You can have this disease for as long as 30 years or even longer with unnoticable symptoms. It is too hard to tell who is or isn't affected in the general public. For some, their immune system might just be able to hold it back while others can't.
Some of the folks on this board have put the disease into remission. It could be their immune system is strong enough It is here in this forum that we maybe the ones to help science solve the riddle. We want to get well and we're willing to be inovative. Our main asset is information.
So I sooooooo agree with Melanie about information. And we create information here all the time and the information continues to improve.
I think the main advantage we have, is in the combination of things we are willing to try and then discount until we have something that works better to best. This forum is a collection of our results.
Just a comment on vectors and ticks being the only one, they are only created as a means for some to limit their understanding of the issue. It seems a little ludicrous to think only humans, animals and ticks can house lyme.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
If this is the case - how about those mosquitoes??? and fleas?
My cat had fleas last summer & I was afraid that the fleas might bite me & give it to the cat or my boyfriend... I live in NJ & we have loads of mosquitoes, too...
Maybe everyone will be dosed with some amount of Lyme in time?
It's a pretty screwed up situation.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
Bear in mind that the reason that ticks pass Lyme so well is that ticks have enzymes (?) in their saliva that suppress the immune system so that the bitten animal doesn't attempt to reject the tick, and Lyme takes advantage of this 'tick saliva factor'. So there's reason to believe that Lyme is more likely to be transmitted via ticks than it is via mosquitoes or other biting insects, of which there is little evidence.
I don't remember all the details of this but it's well-described in Stephen Buhner's book Healing Lyme.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Yes. I remember reading this too about the tick saliva...
If that is the case, then the same should be true about spreading Lyme through sex, dishes, doorknobs, etc.
It may be that minute amounts of the illness can be present in the blood of mosquitos, fleas, etc. Maybe it acts as a natural vaccine? Just a weird guess...
People in the same family or in relationship may get Lyme because they are in the same area, go for walks together, etc.
Maybe they are bitten by ticks & didn't know it? It would be hard to prove that this isn't the case as opposed to spreading the spirochete through sexual contact or saliva.
I think it's good to have some caution but not go nuts over it.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
My husband was bit by a tick in 2003, and received immediate and long-term treatment. Luckily we researched what he had and found the only LLMD in Houston at the time. This LLMD told us it was sexually transmissible so for the year and a half we were using protection. I was pregnat when he got bit, and so to be even more cautious we barley even kissed. Well, after he was fully recovered and stopped treatment we stopped using protection and after 3 months I started to get symptoms. I was tested and came back positive for lyme and babesia. My husband did not test pos for babs initially but did the second time. So he went back on abx and I did abx for a year and a half as well.
I am so worried this is contagious I will not let our son drink after us with the same cup.
I have also decided not to have any other children because I think they would get this from me even if I went back on abx.
All sad but very true.
Posts: 101 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Jul 2003
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cottonbrain
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13769
posted
I had undiagnosed lyme disease for two years before my husband developed a bullseye rash -- We always had protected sex --
he got immediate treatment and recovered but i went undiagnosed another thirteen years and am still ill.
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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sparkle7
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posted
re: "I was pregnat when he got bit, and so to be even more cautious we barley even kissed. Well, after he was fully recovered and stopped treatment we stopped using protection and after 3 months I started to get symptoms."
If your husband was "fully recovered" how could you get Lyme from him?
I don't mean to be disrespectful or negative towards your comments but it doesn't make sense.
Is there any possibility that you were bitten by a tick rather than contracting Lyme via exposure to your husband? There is often no rash or marks from infected tick bites. How can you be sure that you got Lyme from him? If it spread that easily, so many more people would be ill now. Over 10 years, I had 2 ELISSA tests & a Western Blot & I was negative for all of the tests. The tests are notoriously inaccurate. There seems to be something wrong with this situation.
As I stated - I have nothing against you, KH... it just seems like there is something wrong. Keep in mind that syphilis is similar to Lyme. Is there any possibility that you had something other than Lyme? I don't mean to imply anything but I just don't get it. If you say your husband was cured, how could you be exposed through him?
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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