posted
I know many folks on here are unable to do much if any exercise, but for those of you who can... do you get a herx out of it?
I'm not doing anything even close to what I was doing last spring right now, but I'm still pretty active. I ask because I'm coaching a track class that started this past Tuesday and the little bit of running that I did with them gave me mad neuro symptoms. Today (Thursday) was a tough day to get through work.
I was wondering if the little workout I got killed off some bugs.
BTW... I searched on this topic before posting and saw a lot of posts from people on both sides of the fence about whether exercise is good for Lyme patients. Of course I'm no doctor, but I would say that emphatically "yes" it is. You don't have to run a marathon, but try to do something. Whatever you can tolerate comfortably. Slow walking, fast walking, a few flights of stairs, yoga, anything.
There are an infinite variety of things you can do in a chair or in bed too (no, that is not what I meant by exercise in bed). If nothing else the friendly chemicals that your body releases during activity will give you a little "high". I did a very short run tonight and felt almost symptom-free for about an hour and a half afterwards. I'll also probably sleep better tonight.
posted
I've noticed consistently that if i go out for a day of climbing the next day, my fatigue and depression spike. Could it be a herx or flair up i don't know. my climbing isn't close to what it used to be but i can get by with a little here and there. until they decide to picc me again.
-------------------- Bit in March 2005. Posts: 58 | From Jersey | Registered: May 2008
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Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4715
posted
I've definitely noticed the buggers punishing me for exercising in the past but I think it's worth it...not to knock yourself out but to give them a little taste of their own medicine.
They HATE oxygen and warm body temperatures...TAKE THAT! It gives me some feeling of control in the situation.
Again, in moderation and if you can even get out of bed that day!
posted
I agree ....I try excercise every other day. Its important to rest your body in between.
Apparently to much cardio can strain your immune system so maybe stick more to weight training. A full body progressive weight training programme has helped me more than anything. If I run its usually for no more than 30 minutes.
I take creatine monohydrate as Dr B mentions in his notes and I have found it invaluable. I am not a weight lifter by any means but it has increased my strength and stamina no end as far as training goes.
It has also cleared up alot of the lactic acid build up in the muscles in my back that has been a feature for me in the past. I even trained normally during my cipro treatment with no tendon issues, but then again maybe those side effects are gentic more than anything.
I also tend to soak for an hour in epsom salts bath after I come home, and I feel it keeps my muscles from hurting the day after.
CT the dopamine(?) rush you get from working out is invaluable in recovery as I am sure you know, and nothing hurt me more mentally than when I was too sick to train.
Clarissa also makes a good point I think about oxygen and body temp changes. Not to mention detoxing through sweating, increasing circulation to help antibiotics penetrate deeper.
Alot of lyme docs say you will not recover without exercise. I also understand that its easier said than done in alot of cases especially for the older patients.
As far as herxing from working out. Don't know about that. Maybe....or maybe its a slight flare from putting too much demand on your already overburdened body, Its hard to say. I have definitely felt iike I was herxing if I pushed myself too hard the day before. Particularly cardio stuff.
Obviously discuss it with your doctor before you start any training programme. And stick within your limits. Your body will tell you if you have over done it. Thats my 10 cents worth!
Best of luck, and I'm sure you'll be back to your best in good time.
This TBI recovery is a marathon in itself
-------------------- Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos) Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007. Posts: 648 | From Ireland | Registered: Jan 2007
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
I dont recover after even moderate excersise. My muscles are in pain the next day./
YesterdaY I went for a walk and today I am in pain. Go figure.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
I woke up this morning feeling terrible but my daughter wanted me to chase her around the house. I did in kind of a half jog, pumping my arms but barely taking my feet off the ground.
It felt so good that I got on the treadmill for 10 more minutes!
I know it's good to get the lymph moving to get those toxins out. I'm going to try very hard to do this more often.
I find that I often think there's no way it's possible but if I make myself do just a little I feel better!
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
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tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
.....maybe it could cause a herx by increasing circulation and pushing abx deeper into your body.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
Early on in treatment exercise would make me herx, but not anymore.
I restrict my cardio if I'm having stamina problems.
I think exercise is critical ... at whatever level a person is capable of .... but I think it's counter-productive if you use too much of your energy for it ... you need that energy to get well.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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here are some cautions about aerobic exercise with infections - although there have been a few isolated cases of a patient here or there doing such and doing well, there are many more cases of severe setbacks from overdoing it.
As individual reactions may vary, of course, I think the key is to listen to your body, not the voice in your head that wants to push or punish, but what your entire body tells you about how good anything you do is for you. De-conditioning is a hazard, of course, but there are many ways for gentle movement to safely strengthen.
In his guidelines, Dr. B: "Aerobics are not allowed until nearly fully recovered"
TREATING CHRONIC LYME DISEASE J. J. Burrascano, MD April 24, 2004 outlined section:
. ENFORCED REST; NO CAFFEINE - Must try to prevent afternoon energy sags - Proper sleep is essential
. REHAB AND EXERCISE PROGRAM - Required for a full recovery
- Intermittent program one to three days per week - Toning, stretching, posture, balance - Aerobics are not allowed until nearly fully recovered
[ there is a full page of PT instructions in the guidelines from this set] Dr. B stresses that movement is vital, it's just the type and manner that matter.
Regarding questions of exercise, I've had setbacks of months just from a walk, a swim, a trip to a museum. Sometimes, I'd feel fine during it, but then crash hard later. From pushing, not necessary exercise, but physical stress that also taxes the adrenal/endocrine system.
I hope the three articles below can shed some light. We also don't know what mix of infections we have going on and each person has a different mix.
If exercise works for some, great. For others, there are other ways to move . . . slowly.
QiGong or gentle yoga seem to help the most for me. Tai Chi for those who like more movement. QiGong requires less turning and can even be done sitting or lying down.
Three citations below regarding the desire/tendency/instruction to push exercise during illness. While the research is about infections other than lyme, lyme could be a player as well as a lyme patient having a mix of conditions. Noting the similarities in reactions to exercise can help us understand the process and stay safe.
1.
In the book, The Clinical and Scientific Basis of Myalgic Encephalomyeltis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
authors: Byron M. Hyde, M.D., Jay Goldstein, M.D. and Paul Levine, M.D.
The Nightingale Research Foundation reprinted p. vii which shows three sets of SPECT scans. (1993, I think.)
Taken in resting, post-exercise and 24 hours post-exercise, the images show an immediate post-exercise effect with perfusion and
``illustrate the severely decreased brain perfusion of the same patient 24 hours after the brain has been stressed by physical exercise."
This is a most remarkable piece of paper. You can see the marked impact upon the brain in the nine photos from the SPECT.
I can't find a copy of the page on the web, but you could request a copy from the Nightingale Research Foundation at
WHEN WORKING OUT DOESN'T WORK OUT By Dr. Christopher R. Snell, Dr. J.Mark VanNess and Staci R. Stevens, Guest Contributors
The CFIDS CHRONICLE - SUMMER 2004
This article tells why and what we can do to improve this. Very good information on ATP and mitochondria - energy production, etc. Great information.
--------------------------------------------
3.
EXCERPT:
when mice infected with Coxsackie B3 were forced to swim in a warm pool, the virulence of the virus was drastically augmented.
In fact, viral replication was augmented 530 times. This did horrendous things to the animals' hearts. We all know that to play squash with the flu can lead to heart attacks. Much the same danger can be courted by undertaking hard exercise with M.E.
Post-Polio and Post-M.E. New book furthers polio hypothesis
Jane Colby
The CFIDS Chronicle - Fall 1996
excerpt:
[Post-polio expert] Dr. [Richard] Bruno points out that physical over-activity is the biggest cause of post-polio symptoms. [3] (See Dr. Bruno's "Fainting and Fatigue" in the Spring 1996 Chronicle, page 37.)
What are we doing to our teenagers with M.E. when we force them back to school, deny them home tuition and tell them to exercise as a form of therapy?
We know that muscle cells in M.E. have faulty "battery" mechanisms and that energy cannot be readily regenerated.
The aerobic/anaerobic cycles are disrupted, so that if we overwork muscles affected by M.E., the fibers that can work without oxygen, (and)
and that are there for use in emergencies, get over-used, potentially causing damage.
It is well-known amongst people who are trying to get over M.E. that exercise, often undertaken early on in the disease in attempt to get fit again, can make them a great deal worse.
This is partly because the muscles are not able to function like healthy muscles.
But knowledge of the behavior of enteroviruses goes even further towards explaining why this should be.
Right back in 1970, it was shown by Gatmaltan, Chason and Lerner that
when mice infected with Coxsackie B3 were forced to swim in a warm pool, the virulence of the virus was drastically augmented.
In fact, viral replication was augmented 530 times. This did horrendous things to the animals' hearts.
We all know that to play squash with the flu can lead to heart attacks.
Much the same danger can be courted by undertaking hard exercise with M.E.
In 1988, Reyes and his colleagues exercised mice suffering from Coxsackie B3 myocarditis -- inflammation of the heart muscle caused by the virus.
They showed that the effect of exercise on the production of the neurohormones which regulate immune response and inflammation led to an increase in susceptibility to Coxsackie virus infections -- the host response was altered in favor of the virus.
Roger Loria, discussing not only these very grave findings, but also those of Jamal and Hansen in 1985,
who reported that abnormal single-fiber electromyographs (muscle graphs) were evident in 40 patients with postviral fatigue syndrome (PVFS, analogous to M.E.), 35 of whom had a Coxsackie infection, said:
"These observations, as well as the recent interest in postviral fatigue syndrome (M.E.) may have considerable application." [4]
The year in which he said this was 1988. We seem still to be waiting for someone to apply them.
The treatment of choice for those with post-polio is: "adequate rest, energy conservation, the pacing of activities, and reducing physical and emotional stress." [5]
What on earth will happen in 30 years' time to children now getting M.E. in a climate where they are disbelieved and told to push themselves through the pain barrier?
The condition "post-M.E.," which we may already be seeing in adults, could well await them with a vengeance.
The seriousness with which we take M.E. ought to parallel the seriousness with which we regarded polio. Byron Hyde and his team speak for us all:
"There is a myth among large numbers of physicians... that this is a short-term illness. We have reviewed the literature and can find no published study that supports the thesis that M.E./C.F.S is an illness of a short duration... . . . . =====================================
All this said, adjusting . . . finding the activities that nurture and strengthen us (wherever we may be in this process) can be so vital to healing.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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links to the work of Paul Cheney,MD
(as mentioned previously, some CFS may be undiagnosed lyme or other infections - still this research may be helpful for understanding how our bodies work - and to guide us to better health.)
To view a streaming video of a three-hour talk by Dr. Cheney on diastolic cardiomyopathy and ME/CFS, click here. (access through link above)
New Research on Cardiac Insufficiency several articles
There is new research from a New Jersey team, authored by Doctors Arnold Peckerman, Benjamin Natelson et al., which found left-ventricular dysfunction following exertion and orthostatic stress in patients with myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome.
link at this site.
In an NIH-funded study on impedance cardiography also linked below, Peckerman and Natelson found that low cardiac output correlated with symptom severity in ME/CFS.
Dr. A. Martin Lerner . . . Viral infection persists in the heart, causing left-ventricular dysfunction, producing exercise intolerance. Exercise, in turn, worsens the cardiac dysfunction. . . .
More recently, physicist, physician, long-time ME/CFS researcher and clinician, and heart-transplant recipient Paul Cheney, M.D., Ph.D., has offered an alternative theory that a subset of ME/CFS patients suffer from a diastolic cardiomyopathy, a problem with ventricular filling resulting from mitochondrial dysfunction and low ATP energy in the heart.
==
VIDEO (not sure if different from above - this video starts right away:
posted
My goal this year, prior to getting diagnosed, was to get healthy, lose weight, and just be active. Lyme's and my doctor suggest that in order to speed up the removal of bacteria, exercise is the way to do it.
Since being diagnosed 3 weeks ago, I've lost 15 pounds and try to walk every day...granted my small dog needs to lose a few pounds so she goes with me. I also try to do 30 minutes on the elliptical at least 3x per week if not more. Yes - I have weird symptoms, muscle weakness, can't remember words, excessive fatigue, extreme pain in my back and shoulders, but overall - I know that those little buggers are dying and when they die or the faster they die the happier I am...Actually, my method of exercise is that when I'm on that elliptical I visualize those little spirocetes, l-cells and cysts blowing up and leaving through my sweat. Hey - if visualization works for cancer patients - why can't it work for us, right?
So - when you exercise you build up the temperature of your body (so says my doc) and the little buggers don't like the heat - it kills them. So, as they die the toxins are released...hence the reaction for the next few days after exercise. Since I exercise almost every day (whether I feel like it or not - it's a will power game I play with myself - do I want to feel like this forever? No - so I'll get my fat butt on that elliptical and kill those suckers) I'm experiencing a few more twinges than I'm used to but know overall it's a good thing.
One other thing my doctor warned me about - and unfortunately for me, it's true - if you don't get enough sleep it can lead to a herx reaction. My lucky herx reaction to this stupid issue (I have problems sleeping sometimes - the stupid one would be me) is nausea...Yippee
Thanks for starting this topic - very important!
Amy
-------------------- If you think it you can achieve it; if you dream it you can become it! Posts: 22 | From Germantown, Maryland | Registered: Apr 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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This PT referral form might not be for everyone at every stage. Be sure to check with your doctor as to if this is right - and the right time for you - or how to adjust it.
Please enroll this patient in a program of therapy to rehabilitate him/her from the effects of Lyme Disease. If necessary, begin with classic physical therapy, then progress when appropriate to a whole body conditioning program.
Such therapy must be graded, carefully individualized, and be performed on a one-on-one basis, at least initially, to ensure the maximal amount of supervision and guidance.
THERAPEUTIC GOALS (to be achieved in order as the patient's ability allows):
Physical therapy (if needed):
1. Relieve pain and muscle spasms utilizing multiple modalities as available and as indicated: massage, heat, ultrasound,TENS, "micro amp", etc
2. Increase mobility while protecting damaged and weakened joints, tendons, and ligaments, to increase range of motion and relieve stiffness.
3. The role of physical therapy is to prepare for the required, preferably gymbased, exercise program outlined below.
EXERCISE Begin with a private trainer for careful direction and education.
PATIENT EDUCATION AND MANAGEMENT (to be done during the initial one-on-one sessions and reinforced at all visits thereafter):
1. Instruct patients on correct exercise technique, including warm-up, breathing, joint protection, proper body positioning during the exercise, and how to cool-down and stretch afterwards.
2. Please work one muscle group at a time and perform extensive and extended stretching to each muscle group immediately after each one is exercised, before moving onto the next muscle group.
3. A careful interview should be performed at the start of each session to make apparent effects, both good and bad, from the prior visit's therapy, and adjust therapy accordingly.
PROGRAM
1. Aerobic exercises are NOT allowed, not even low impact variety, until your stamina improves.
2. Conditioning: Follow a "Body Sculpting" program-This consists of light calisthenics and weight lifting, using very low resistance(small weights) and many repetitions., and must involve the whole-body. This can be accomplished in exercise classes, with exercise machines, or carefully with free weights.
3. Each session should last one hour. If the patient is unable to continue for the whole hour, then modify the program to decrease the intensity to allow him/her to do so.
4. Exercise no more than every other day. You may need to start by exercise every 4th or 5th day initially, and as your abilities improve, work out more often, but NEVER two days in a row. The days you do not exercise should be spent resting.
5. This whole-body program is required to achieve wellness. Simply placing the patient on a treadmill or an exercise bike is not acceptable (except briefly as a warm-up), nor is a simple walking program.
======================================
poster's note: it would be best to have a PT/trainer who is very well educated not just with lyme (ILADS) but with CFS and exercise considerations and research from that body of work as well. The CFIDS Association has done much to shine a light on this area.
Also - there may be changes made since this was written in 2002. Always check with your doctors - the ones who are educated in all this, that is.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Okay, with apologies for highjacking and for doing a "school report" on this - one other note. More than one of my doctors reminds me that an exercise herx can be related to how well my liver is detoxifying.
Exercise stresses the liver, too. Of course, getting stuff moving through is a good thing, but if the liver can't handle the volume of filtering, etc. that stresses then entire body. So pushing beyond what the liver can do may also be a consideration in the exercise pay-back/ herx effect. We have to be kind to our liver.
Most are familiar with certain support for liver such as milk thistle, NAC, etc.
There are many supplements to help support the ADRENALS that also help with exercise endurance. Some of those are Siberian Ginseng, Ashwagandha, Cordyceps, Rhodiola (though it can be a little too stimulating for some). SAMe may help, but, again, that can be overstimulating.
D-Ribose has helped many. the CFIDS literature above may mention that. If not, it's easy to search out.
posted
Keebler - Dr. B states that aerobic activity is not allowed IF the individual was in poor shape to begin with...However, if you were in good health and had been exercising to high levels of aerobic activity, continuing on is fine.
I read that article and showed it to my doc, Dr. J, who has done research with Dr. B. at NIH and he agreed with that statement - "If you were exercising prior to being diagnosed, you should continue as possible."
It is for those who have been severely limited due to complications of chronic lyme that have caused misdiagnosis to the point of recommending inactivity, which even in some cases is not recommended. Even in patients who have ALS, MS, CFS, fibromyalgia, etc. gentle exercise is recommended. Maybe not going out and running 15 miles - but yoga, pilates, physical therapy, etc. will assist in getting muscles back in shape.
It is for the DOCTOR to determine - not the individual - through proper testing (EKG, MRI, CAT and imaging and blood tests) whether exercise is a good idea as well as whether or not the heart is capable of handling the exercise. My doctor determined my heart was fine - through the aforementioned testing (My C-Reactive Protein (aka CRP) test was outrageously high - normal is less than or equal to 1; mine was 24 - and CRP can also be a preview as to whether or not an individual has heart disease). I had an EKG, a stress test, CAT and MRI to determine and either confirm or deny heart disease. I don't have heart disease. I don't even have any problems with my valves which is awesome.
It should be up to the doctor who is treating - rather than the individual to determine safety with exercise.
Also - some of the examples that you gave in your post were on research regarding viral diseases. Viruses are completely different than bacterial infections - they are also much easier to study due to the ability to easily replicate them. Also given the examples provided (Coxseckie and flu) rest is generally the number one thing a physician will tell you to do when you have a virus. Bacterial infections are completely different and require different methods of treatment.
It is important to recognize that your doctor has the ability to determine YOUR best interests. The internet is out there and is able to provide vast quantities of information - but it is important to realize and to recognize that many of the information out there CAN be misleading.
It was the same for me while researching Lyme's. I've read about every document out there - and when I found out my doctor was lyme literate - well, it freaked me right out. Want to know why? Because not all lyme literate doctors are actually lyme literate. Some ARE quacks. The fact that I asked for a second opinion, got one, got a referral and went for a 3rd opinion yet wound up back at my first doctor says something - these other doctors in my area stated that my doctor actually DOES have a vast experience in research AND treating patients with lyme disease. He's been around for a long time. He gave me the papers he's written, he gave me references to the other doctors he worked with at NIH who are still there, as well as with some doctors that are doing research at the CDC that he has worked with as well.
He also pointed out to me what articles were correct, which ones didn't have a clue, and which ones were from outer space. That helped a lot.
So basically what I'm saying, is to trust the opinion of your doctor. Ask LOADS of questions and do what HE/SHE says.
Just my own opinion,
A
-------------------- If you think it you can achieve it; if you dream it you can become it! Posts: 22 | From Germantown, Maryland | Registered: Apr 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Very good point about the shape a person is in before lyme diagnosis. Sometimes I forget that some people actually didn't have to nearly drop dead before they get diagnosed and treated.
Also - great reminder above about " . . . if you don't get enough sleep it can lead to a herx reaction . . " So true.
The reason I included information about viruses is that that they sometimes are also part of the larger mix many patients. So, if one has trouble, it's good to keep in mind that, if a virus is involved, that can alter things. And some viruses are chronic, not just like a week-long flu. That would need specific advice, then.
Before I was dx with lyme, etc. I would just push and push and crash and crash. I did a lot of damage because I did not understand the processes taking place and so many others said to just push the exercise. I learned QiGong was my speed. I wasn't happy about it, but it was all I could do.
And, there have been years where just any daily living chores were all the exercise I could tolerate. I had to learn not to beat myself up about that.
After years of trying to treat lyme and other tick-borne infections, finally I got a test for a few viral infections and, yes, several strains of Coxsackie showed positive. So did HHV-6.
Some people who have chronic fatigue may also have chronic viral infections such as HHV-6 or Coxsackie.
Also in the news from doctor 2 days ago, I'm positive for Cpn, Chlamydia Pneumonia (bacteria). So, for those who have problems with advancing, it may be that further testing will prove helpful.
=============
Re: Cpn
excerpt: " . . . There again Cpn bacteria metabolize and damage these cells by "stealing" energy. . . . "
Chlamydia Pneumoniae in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia - An Opinion, by Patient Advocate James Kepner
ImmuneSupport.com 04-23-2007
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[ 02. May 2008, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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lou4656
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10300
posted
There are a number of us who believe that exercise is a part of the healing process. We support and encourage each other on the Hikers/Walkers/Movers thread in General Support.
Some of us are walking miles a day, and others are happy to just get one foot in front of the other for just a few minutes. We are a myriad of fitness levels.
But our goal is to get moving the best that we can because we think it will be beneficial to our health. And, as I said earlier, to encourage and support each other.
We welcome new hikers/walkers/movers to join us on the thread. Hey, the more the merrier.
-------------------- LouLou Posts: 1276 | From maryland | Registered: Oct 2006
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
It believe it's a negative consequence of the body being under too much distress, thus stress hormones, cortisol are released, inflammation climbs, and as a result -- symptoms increase dramatically.
Just my opinion.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
I can vouch for the effectiveness of Dr. B's excersize recommendations. I began with his physical therapy referral, which I put in front of my doctor, for her signature.
At the time, I was coming out of bad muscle atrophy at my neck and shoulders.
After that and while only about 5 1/2 months into treatment, (having once had Bell's palsy, for example) I began weightlifting with machines. I'd drag my hurting right side muscle pain from machine to machine.
At each machine I got to sit. For a lot of we Lymies, it's great to sit! Then all I had to do was push one muscle group. No HE-MAN stuff-no lifting all you can. No. Not at all. If we pant, grunt, or our heart pounds, we are overdoing it!
Yet-the Lymie workout has to be challenging--just enough. Then, like tortoises (and depending on the intensity of our illness) we keep going to the gym 3 times a week (one hour each time including stretchhhhhhhing--feels wonderful) and it all adds up!
Then we go home and rest, because we need our energy to recover from Lyme. I never had anything like a "herx" from this program. (Taking heavy antiobiotics does that, thank you very much!)
Aerobics takes it out of me RIGHT NOW.
When we spend our energy using aerobics, we get directly WORSE, like a car wreck. Our body requires an energy bank to get better and we've got to pace ourselves and spend it wisely.
When I'm done at the gym, I go home with muscles that feel a bit more weak, yet I feel renewed; tired, but in less pain from arthritis, muscle pain and especially head pain and brain fog.
I know my GI tract will hum along a little better. I expect my immune system will be a bit more responsive. I'm building healthy, new cells (with fish oil, too.)
I get home and flop on my bed for a nice Lyme rest or nap.
posted
I was active before I got bite by my tick. In fact, I was on a long hike when it attached.
I have kept up the cardio exercises including elliptical and jogging.
One thing I have noticed, I always feel my best for several hours after a work out. It's like a natural high.
Has anyone else experienced this? Feeling good after a work out?
I hope it's not a result of me pushing myself too hard and suppressing my own immune system!
Posts: 28 | From Northern Virginia | Registered: Oct 2007
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daise
Unregistered
posted
Hi John622,
I'm happy for you that you don't have serious disease.
quote: Hohn 622 wrote: One thing I have noticed, I always feel my best for several hours after a work out. It's like a natural high.
Has anyone else experienced this? Feeling good after a work out?
Yes, I feel that, as much as my brain and my body are able. You would never recognize the high that I feel, and I thank God for that. But you have to understand, some of us have escaped death. Our illness has been that intense. Recovery takes years.
lymednva
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9098
posted
i was at a dysautonomia support group one day when the topic of exercise came up. as we talked we realized that despite attempts to exercise in the past almost all of us had never experienced the endorphin highs so many describe.
my llmd and i talk about when i will be able to exercise, and some days i can walk about two blocks in my neighborhood.
that doesn't happen very frequently and i usually come home tired out.
i do make an effort to rest/sleep every afternoon, and at other additional times when i am herxing, since fatigue is one of my worst symptoms.
i have been ill for over 40 years, and in treatment for two, so i have a ways to go.
overall, though i am able to do more than i could two years ago. when i was in nyc for three weeks in feb i walked to and from the subway every day, about half mile each way.
i rested as much as possible, sometimes nodding off in a chair in my son's hospital room. after he was released i was still needing to walk in his neighborhood, but never more than once a day since they live in a fifth floor walk-up.
after i returned home i spent the month of march recovering. just when i was feeling "normal" again i fell and broke my shoulder. one good thing from that...my abs got a lot stronger!
once i am allowed to remove the sling (the pins came out today) i will be doing pt, but will discuss it with my llmd beforehand.
-------------------- Lymednva Posts: 2407 | From over the river and through the woods | Registered: Apr 2006
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daise
Unregistered
posted
Hi lymednva,
You poor thing. Aren't you the trooper!
You have staying power. You are a wonderment to behold!
posted
Sorry if my response came off as insensitive. Certainly not my goal or intention. I've been very fortunate that I've been able to stay somewhat active most of the time.
Posts: 28 | From Northern Virginia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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John,
Thank you for your words.
This is clearly a very tender subject as, my guess is, even those who don't tolerate activity well would love to be out there running with the team, so to speak. However, I think we don't all have the same energy circuitry anymore. So, we have to learn a new owner's manual that we can't quite yet find.
I still can't believe it myself, after many years of all this, but some of the basic principles of existence seem to have been drastically altered. Fortunately, there are some researchers who are working at understanding "when working out doesn't work out" and how certain infections can change physiology.
I tend to think had we been promptly diagnosed and properly treated that many would have seen a quicker and more thorough resolution. So, now, education . . . awareness . . . prevention.
-
[ 03. May 2008, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
I used to herx SO bad from just walking down the street. My hips and groin and lower legs would be dead for the next couple days. It was brutal.
But I just kept at it and I'm slowly building up a great workout tolerance.
The better you get the easier it is to forget how bad it once was.
Man it was bad lol
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
The only thing that's consistent with my response to exercise is the inconsistency. Sometimes I feel "okay" (and I do mean okay, not great, but not lousy) and other days I'll get post exertional malaise, brain fog, pain, the works. I do the exact same thing, say a slow 2 mile run on the treadmill and a few light weights and it's always a crap shoot.
I'm not complaining...I was in the "can't walk to the mailbox" club a few years ago, just hoping to get past this plateau that I've been on for while.
-------------------- IV graduate. As of 1/10, oral Omnicef, Minocyline, Mycobutin, Levaquin, and Flagyl. Lyrica and a bunch of supplements. Posts: 123 | From Atlanta | Registered: Mar 2009
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
All these people talking about going to the gym 2-3x a week. I'd be happy to be able to DRIVE to the gym. Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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