Topic: Low serotonin= aggression, poor impulse control
minoucat
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posted
I think this is relevant to LD--so many Lymies take serotonin boosters for depression, but rage and poor impulse control are also common problems.
LONDON (Reuters) - Serotonin, the brain chemical linked to mood, plays a key role in regulating emotions such as aggression, British researchers said on Thursday.
Serotonin, the nerve-signaling chemical targeted by many antidepressants, appears to keep aggressive social responses in check, Molly Crockett, a psychologist at the University of Cambridge and colleagues reported in the journal Science.
The chemical's precise role in impulse control has been controversial but this study is one of the first to actually show a causal link, Crockett said.
"Because we directly manipulated serotonin levels and observed an effect on behavior we can say there is a causal link between serotonin and aggressive responses," Crockett said in a telephone interview.
Their research also helps explain why some people become combative or aggressive when hungry because the essential amino acid needed for the body to create serotonin is only obtained through diet.
The team used this knowledge to manipulate serotonin levels in 20 healthy volunteers who were then asked to play a situation game that tested their responses to fair and unfair offers of money.
People with lower serotonin levels were far more likely to deprive other players of money, even though they lost out as well, as a way to punish the person who made the offer, the researchers said.
"It is an anger-driven response," Crockett said.
This knowledge could help doctors treat people with depression and anxiety disorders by teaching them ways to regulate emotions during decision making, especially in social situations, she added.
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Cass A
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posted
Yuck.
They also can cause suicidal thoughts, homicidal rages, suicide, and many physiological problems.
Better to try B vitamins, especially B1, first.
ANY medication eats up the B vitamins, leaving you prone to mood problems.
Why take another drug?
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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klutzo
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I had a severe Lyme Rage problem. Two grams of L-tryptophan at bedtime has made it about 85% less.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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minoucat
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posted
Very interesting, since L-tryptophan is a serotonin precursor and B12 is involved in producing serotonin.
Given the digestive problems that many Lymies have, along with the Vitamin B depletion that they experience from abx and, apparently, the effect of the spirochetes, it's not surprising that depression, pain, and rage are so common.
HOWEVER -- the kind of B12 you take can make a huge difference, especially if you have a problem with detoxing sulfur.
Several Lymies in our support group have switched from methylated B12 to other forms and felt MUCH better. The methylated B12 was exacerbating their problems because their methylation pathways were blocked.
They were dx via genetic testing, in accordance with the Amy Yasko research.
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Deficiencies of specific nutrients are quite common in depressed individuals. The most common deficiencies are Folic Acid (Vitamin B9), Vitamin B12,Vitamin B6, and omega 3 essential fatty acids.
Folic acid and vitamin B12 function together in many biochemical processes. In studies of depressed patients, about 31-35% have been shown to be deficient in folic acid.(Alpert, 1997)
Depression is the most common symptom of a folic acid deficiency. Many patients with megaloblastic anemia - anemia caused by a deficiency in folic acid - commonly suffer from depression. (Wardlaw,1999)
In addition, low serum folate levels are associated with poor response to antidepressant mediations. Although less common than that of folic acid, Vitamin B12 deficiency can also cause depression.
Lots of evidence show that correcting the folic acid and/or vitamin B12 deficiency with supplements or proper food intake result in a dramatic improvement in mood. The serotonin-elevating effects are undoubtedly responsible for much of the antidepressive effects of folic acid and vitamin B12.
Major food sources that are rich in folate include legumes, seeds, leafy green vegetables, yeast, liver, and kidney and ones that are rich in vitamin B12 are animal products such as meat, fish, poultry, milk, cheese, and eggs. (Dupuy, 1995) A dosage of 800mcg of folic acid and 800mcg of vitamin B12 should be sufficient in most circumstances to prevent deficiencies.
posted
Hubby definitely had a problem with serotonin in the past. However, for him taking B vitamins or l-tryptophan or 5-HTP actually aggravated his neuro symptoms.
The answer for him was to add resveratrol which blocks the alternate pathway by which these things are converted to quinolinic acid in the presence of brain inflammation.
A well meaning doc had hubby do a trial with 5-HTP. This was before diagnosis and treatment. He could take a 50 mg 5-HTP capsule every hour. It would stop his tremors/myoclonus for maybe 30 minutes. After a couple of days he was a nervous wreck and had to stop. He had some test results around this time which confirmed elevated quinolinic acid in his bloodstream.
He used to take 5-HTP or l-tryptophan for sleep. He would go to sleep and then wake up with seizure-like episodes. This stopped when he added in the Resveratrol per Buhner's Healing Lyme book.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Here is a recent discussion of excitotoxicity and hubby's experiences. He has had many tests for amino acid levels -- serotonin precursors always used to be low. Also neurotransmitter metabolites got worse with SSRI's -- improved with the correct amino acid supplements.
I used to adjust hubby's dose of 5-HTP/ l-trytophan (he took a compounded supplement) based on his moods. Finally after a year or so on Resveratrol he doesn't seem to need extra 5-HTP except on those rare nights when he has trouble sleeping. He does continue to take 2 Resveratrol 3 times daily (Source Naturals brand).
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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minoucat
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posted
very interesting thread, Bea. I wish we could all work with a suite of specialists in a variety of areas. There is so much more to treating this disease than just killing bacteria.
Several people in our LD group have found that treating underlying causes -- blocked methylation pathways, food allergies, etc. -- have helped them enormously. What they thought were herxes were, in fact, toxic overloads caused by their own genetic predispositions.
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posted
glad i brought this up; good discussion going on!
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TerryK
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posted
People who have certain problems in their methylation cycle need the active form of folic acid, 5-MTHF.
Adding the folic acid and intrinsic factor from Dr. Yasko's supplements has really made a big difference in my sleep. Just a caution though, if you have a problem with methylation, you have to be careful not to add too much or you can start detoxing too quickly and become very sick.
Excitotoxins are a big issue for some people with methylation cycle problems.
The problems that my sister has with her methylation cycle causes an imbalance in dopamine and serotonin. I'm waiting for test results but after looking at my organic acid test, it seems clear that my dopamine and serotonin metabolites are all messed up.
A few years ago I started taking tyrptophan but kept it low at 500 mg due to the possibility of it increasing quinolinic acid. My quinolinic acid was not elevated according to testing at that time. I also added 5-htp. These things helped greatly with pain and sleep.
Over the past year, my pain levels increased, especially since starting levaquin and an organic amino acid test revealed abnormally high quinolinic acid.
I'm now cutting out the tryptophan and 5-htp and opening the methylation cycle.
Methylation cycle problems can cause some serious detoxification issues for some people.
My LLMD mentioned that they are amazed at how many chronic lyme patients seem to have genetic issues.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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