posted
It's all the same exact group symptoms. Clinicaly anyone with CFS or Fibro could be diagnosed with Lyme.
They say that Lyme is the "great imitator" and can imitate CFS and Fibro.
But is it really imitating these conditions, for which there is no known cause, or is it just the same condition?
While I don't think anyone knows anything for sure, I'm willing to bet that eventualy they're going to prove that CFS and Fibro are nothing more Lyme disease.
-------------------- I was diagnosed with and treated for late stage Lyme in 1991 with 6 weeks of doxycycline. Initially felt better, but then developed health problems that last until today. Posts: 83 | From New Jersey | Registered: May 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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First, I assume that a person has reasonably good health habits and self-care (avoiding nutrasweet/aspartame/Equal as well as MSG which are excito-neurotoxins). From there:
There are several chronic stealth infections. These can be of a bacterial, viral, fungal or (other) nature.
Hepatitis is one such viral infection can also cause chronic fatigue, brain fog and pain (and that is just a beginning).
All CFS or FM may not be lyme, but my guess is that there are underlying stealth infections in most cases. All should be considered by the patient's doctor - who, hopefully, is fully aware and educated in these matters.
Many patients with lyme and TBD (tick-borne diseases) also have other chronic infections. In addition, liver and endocrine dysfunction is common.
While these may not be the underlying cause, multi-system support is often necessary for progress to be made in addressing infections.
Lyme (and other TBD) can affect every system and every function of the body.
One premiere researcher is found at the link below. This is one place to begin The article below is of major relevance. Then, moving on from there, finding a good diagnostician is key.
For chronic illnesses (CFS, FMS, RA, among other illnesses) that could have an infectious component, The Institute for Molecular Medicine suggests the following lab tests (codes are CPT codes):
1. MycoplasmaTest Panel (CPT: 87798x3, 87581)--Mycoplasma species panel of 4 pathogenic mycoplasmas (M. fermentans, M. penumoniae, M. hominis, M. penetrans) by PCR. Alternatively, a Mycoplasma general (all species) test by Qualitative PCR can be substituted.
Continued at link.
Other tests are discussed, too.
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THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST NEW ARTICLES I'VE READ ABOUT ALL THIS:
"The Lyme Disease Solution" by Singleton can be found at Amazon Books. Reviews are helpful.
"Cure Unknown" is another current book that details one family's struggle with undiagnosed lyme.
You will find many books about lyme at Amazon. Schaller has some good books about babesia (another TBD).
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Due to space limitations, lyme is the major focus of the Savely article below. For information on common co-infections (other tick-borne diseases), should be reviewed from other researchers such as those at
ILADS, www.ilads.org THE INTERNATIONAL LYME AND ASSOCIATED DISEASES SOCIETY
CONTROVERSY CONTINUES TO FUEL THE "LYME WAR" By Virginia Savely, RN, FNP-C
*****
As two medical societies battle over its diagnosis and treatment, Lyme disease remains a frequently missed illness. Here is how to spot and treat it.
Excerpts:
`` . . .Patients with Lyme disease almost always have negative results on standard blood screening tests and have no remarkable findings on physical exam, so they are frequently referred to mental-health professionals for evaluation.
"...If all cases were detected and treated in the early stages of Lyme disease, the debate over the diagnosis and treatment of late-stage disease would not be an issue, and devastating rheumatologic, neurologic, and cardiac complications could be avoided..."
. . . * Clinicians do not realize that the CDC has gone on record as saying the commercial Lyme tests are designed for epidemiologic rather than diagnostic purposes, and a diagnosis should be based on clinical presentation rather than serologic results.
- FULL ARTICLE AT LINK ABOVE.
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Another excellent article is "GU SYNDROME: A forgotten Clinical Approach to Chronic Parasitism" by Heiner Fruehauf.
Attorney General Richard Blumenthal today announced that his antitrust investigation has uncovered serious flaws in the Infectious Diseases Society of America's (IDSA) process for writing its 2006 Lyme disease guidelines and the IDSA has agreed to reassess them with the assistance of an outside arbiter.
posted
there is at least one if not more posts with similar phrasing....
suggest you go to do and click on search
perhaps same question or similar
medical topic any date leave membership no. blank; hit enter
read any/all posts/replies
if none; use different words in search at top.
this was just on the board in last 3-4 days TOPS; so go down to bottom and go thru more screens until you find it ..... great replies there.
KEEBLER outdoes herself in providing documentation on all replies; she works so much for all here! here's to you keebler!
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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[Betty, thanks. ohhh . . . it's largely diversion, part puzzle and a challenge for my brain to take one post and do a bit of research.
Sometimes I pity the poor sole who has a thread that I've latched onto - but I'm getting pretty burned out and need to focus soon on figuring out the next steps in my own course. I've been avoiding that, for sure.
And, Betty, you are the one with the catcher's mitt - sure to be there for the first-time posters, there with the links, etc. pretty impressive. ]
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I have been searching for a particular professional article about lyme and CFS. I have not found that as my computer files are a mess.
However, I copied these posts below from a similar thread right here on LymeNet (I think). Usually, I record the name of the person who posted or the link - or the date. But not this time, it seems. It looks like Marnie's work, though.
"The clinical features of chronic Lyme disease can be indistinguishable from fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. These illnesses must be closely scrutinized for the possibility of etiological Borrelia burgdorferi infection."
Fibromyalgia
"The outcome of treating fibromyalgia secondary to Lyme disease with nonantibiotic regimens has been poor.
The most encouraging clinical trial showed success in only one of 15 patients and only modest improvement in 6 of 15 individuals with fibromyalgia despite 2 years of treatment.
Antibiotic therapy has been much more effective than supportive therapy in symptomatic patients with fibromyalgia secondary to Lyme disease.
Fibromyalgia treatment alone without antibiotics raises the risk of conversion to refractory chronic Lyme disease and/or exacerbation of an undiagnosed persistent infection and is not recommended.
Increasingly, clinicians do not feel comfortable treating fibromyalgia in Lyme disease without antibiotics."
Nowakowski G, Kocha_ska-Dziurowicz A, Widala E. Instytut Medycyny Pracy i Zdrowia, Srodowiskowego w Sosnowcu.
Lyme boreliosis is currently the most common tick-borne infection. It may cause various clinical symptoms depending on organ localization and duration of the infection.
The disease may be symptomless, subclinical or with full clinical manifestation.
Usually three clinical stages may be distinguished. In stage I erythema migrans and flu-like symptoms usually develop.
In stage II, connected with the infection spreading with blood and lymph, beside joint pains, neuroboreliosis appears, sometimes the disease involves other organs such as heart, eyes, testicles, joints.
Stage III, chronic in its character, usually develops in patients who had previously reported joint and neurological complaints. Encephalopathy and fibromyalgia accompany joint involvement.
Diagnostics of Lyme borreliosis is based on clinical evaluation and laboratory test including culture of the bacteria obtained from biopsies and serological tests.
There are no established standards of the treatment--some examples of the therapy are presented in the paper.
The disease if not treated has a progressive course in most causes, however in some patients it can resolve spontaneously even with no treatment.
PMID: 11109319 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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East Afr Med J. 2005 May;82(5):267-9.Links
Lyme disease: report of two cases.
Jowi JO, Gathua SN. Kenyatta National Hospital, P.O. Box 19624-00202, Nairobi, Kenya.
Lyme disease is a tick-borne multisystem disease.
It was first described in Lyme, Connecticut, USA in 1975. Cases have been reported in Canada, Switzerland, Austria, Australia and Great Britain.
It is an inflammatory disease that has varied clinical manifestations ranging from skin rash (erythema migrans), arthritis, fibromyalgia, and regional lymphadenopathy, cardiac conduction defects (to)
to neurological manifestations of meningoencephalitis, Bell's palsy, peripheral neuropathy, and painful radiculoneuropathy.
There has been no case record of Lyme disease in Kenya and indeed literature on Lyme disease in Africa is very scanty. We present two cases of Lyme disease with predominant neurological manifestations; outline their clinical presentation and management.
PMID: 16119758 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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1: Curr Pain Headache Rep. 2002 Aug;6(4):284-8.
Rheumatic mimics and selected triggers of fibromyalgia.
Daoud KF, Barkhuizen A.
Oregon Health and Science University, Division of Rheumatology, 3181 SW Sam Jackson Park Road, Portland, OR 97201, USA.
Fibromyalgia is a chronic pain syndrome of unknown etiology characterized by diffuse pain and tender points, which have been present for more than 3 months.
Many patients with systemic illnesses can have diffuse pain similar to that found in fibromyalgia, including rheumatic diseases such as polymyalgia rheumatica, rheumatoid arthritis, idiopathic inflammatory myopathy, systemic lupus erythematosus, and joint hypermobility.
Osteomalacia and thyroid disease are also in the differential diagnosis of diffuse pain and are imminently treatable.
In addition, there has been interest throughout the past 10 years in infectious diseases including hepatitis C, Lyme disease , coxsackie B, HIV, and parvovirus infection, which may cause or trigger fibromyalgia.
This paper provides a framework to use when identifying these diseases as part of the evaluation of a patient with chronic widespread musculoskeletal pain.
Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Lyme Disease - by Bonnie Gorman RN
EXCERPT:
Parallel Symptom Patterns
Dr. Donta presented the symptom lists for chronic Lyme disease, chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), and Gulf War Illness (GWI). He pointed out the similarities between them, and found there were few differences.
He has treated hundreds of patients with these illnesses. He found that CFS and GWI have identical symptoms, and FM is only distinguished by a positive tender point exam, that is often positive in CFS and GWI as well.
Clinically it is almost impossible to distinguish or differentiate these illnesses.
posted
wow I must say I am impressed with all of your answers! Keebler, thanks for the thorough response with references. I especialliy appreciate the references.
I'll be sure to read over everything and sort through it.
-------------------- I was diagnosed with and treated for late stage Lyme in 1991 with 6 weeks of doxycycline. Initially felt better, but then developed health problems that last until today. Posts: 83 | From New Jersey | Registered: May 2008
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
A simple answer to a complicated issue:
Based on the scientific evidence, Lyme Disease is not the agent responsible for the pattern of symptoms which encapsulate all Fibromyalgia or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Diagnosis.
However, based on the scientific evidence, it is clear that Lyme Disease "is" the agent responsible for the pattern of symptoms in "some" patients diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
So, does this mean Lyme is one of the causes of both conditions? Yes.
Other infectious and non-infectious disease can create the exact same pattern of symptoms leading to a diagnosis of either of those conditions.
We know various toxins and gases, as well as viral and fungal infections can create this pattern. We know that Autism -- portions of those with it -- actually have it as a result of having an infectious disease.
So, it's complicated.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
2 of my Lyme docs are convinced a large portion of the CFS and FM sufferers have/had Lyme. Not to say 100%, but a large number at least.
Posts: 168 | From Delaware | Registered: Aug 2005
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Yes, METALLlC BLUE's mention of autism having a connection to lyme is very important.
There are some specific groups that offer more detail about that if that is needed.
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