Several months ago, my left leg swelled up nearly twice the size of my right, from my knee down.
I called my family doctor, who told me to go to the emergency room, because they thought I had a blood clot.
The ultrasound performed on my leg, as well as all of my blood work, found nothing wrong to explain it.
After a week or so, it passed, even though I didn't do anything different.
Now it's happened again, except my right leg is swollen some too, but not near as much as my left, which is about the same size as when it happened before.
This time, I discussed it with another one of my doctors, who has put me on 20mg/day of Furosemide.
I've been on it for a week now, but I can't even tell it's helping.
It's actually gotten a little worse.
They seemed to think it's just a buildup of toxins from dieoff.
So, they suggested, throughout the day, I drink a mixture of 8 oz. of pure, no sugar added cranberry juice and 56 oz. of water.
I've been doing that too, but I can't even tell it's helping either.
It's already been several weeks, since it started, thus it's lasting longer than when it happened before.
The skin over my calves and feet is really tight, from the pressure it's causing.
It's making my legs and feet hurt so bad, it really hurts when I walk.
Do you know what could be causing it, especially again?
Do you know what I can do to get rid of it?
The antibiotics I'm taking are in my signature line.
I've been treating my bartonella with Rifampin for quite awhile now.
I haven't changed anything I take, except for the Furosemide.
I don't know how this fits into the picture, if at all, but when I look at the edema pictures in Dr. Schaller's new bartonella book, they're a mirror image of what I see happening to myself, only I'm worse.
As always, I appreciate any help you can give me.
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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bettyg
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posted
jennie, do you have your legs up at all and VERY LONG during the day....ABOVE your heart; that helps!
i do know many here have swelling that you speak of. good luck.
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
How technical do you want me to get? I'll start out "technical" and then will give you ideas that may help.
"An enzyme called Na+- K+ ATPase cleaves (breaks apart) ATP to ADP and Pi (photon).
Normally ATP -> ADP -> ATP...
Using oxygen = 36 ATP made. Using glucose, only 2 ATP made.
The infected cells are making a LOT less energy. The mitochondria of the cells (powerhouses) are low on "fuel". ATP is referred to as the energy carrier.
The energy released from the hydrolysis (a chemical reaction or process in which a chemical compound is broken down by reaction with water)
of ATP
drives the Na+-K+ pump which
***normally pumps Na+ out of the cell and K+ into the cell.***
(We have several cellular "pumps".)
If, however, this pump is disabled by the inhibition of this enzyme, the net effect is the malfunction of the pump
***and an increase of sodium inside the cell***
with a loss of intracellular potassium to the extracellular space.
The influx of Na+ is partly due to the passive re-entry of sodium inside the cell while the efflux of K+ is passive to the outside of the cell."
Bb impacts the Na-Ca pump. It needs Na. See my post that talks about CO2 "fixation".
Bb is using CO2 to obtain "methyl" groups (CH3) and looks to absolutely need Na.
Our ATP has Mg attached as Mg-ATP.
Now...practically speaking. You need to help return the blood flow to the heart.
Support stockings...TEDS. Forget "fashion". You NEED THEM. Elevate your legs as often as possible, though you do need to walk some.
Both of my sis' legs are edematous, but her left arm is horribly so by the end of the day. She had a special "stocking" made to reduce the arm edema (swelling) at night. It is really tight and hard to put on. In the morning, her arm edema is MUCH less, but increases again throughout the day.
Another factor that can cause leg swelling:
Low protein levels in the blood that can be seen in malnutrition, kidney and liver disease.
The proteins (amino acids) in the blood help hold salt and water inside the blood vessels so fluid does not leak out into the tissues.
If albumin (the most abundant blood protein) gets too low, edema occurs especially in the feet, ankles and lower legs.
Processed food often has salt added as a flavor enhancer to encourage product sales.
Significantly reducing processed food consumption is always a good idea.
The general rule is that any food in a package has had salt added. Look at the labels on the food that you eat. If the sodium content per 100gm is greater than 0.2gm, the food is high in salt.
I like Mortons "Lite Salt". It actually tastes good. It is in the aisles near all the salts, but look for a turquoise paper "can" of it...about 1/2 the size of the famous Navy Blue Traditional salt.
Another possibility:
Thyroid dermopathy: an underrecognized cause of leg edema. Hypothyroid. Common, very, in lyme.
Doc also should evaluate your heart functioning, kidney and liver functioning. If any one of those organs isn't functioning up to par, that can cause edema of the lower legs too. How is you K level? Have you had your blood electrolytes run?
Lasix did do nothing to stop my sis' edema.
While it is important to drink healthy water, do not overdo it.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I found drinking a cup of dandelion tea a day helps much,found this out thanks to Tincup!thanks Tincup.
Posts: 71 | From Mass | Registered: Apr 2008
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Dandelion has more uses than you maybe aware of.
It crossed my mind a long time ago.
Not to be used with a diuretic and I see you are on one.
see page 107 re: dandelion in Prescription for Nutritional Healing (THE book in many vit-mineral stores)...
diuretic, lowers cholesterol, etc.
The granny-to-be above really knows her stuff!
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I have that problem and am CONVINCED it is Lymphedema.
The fact that diuretics do not help is the proof (I am on also, no help).
Lyme affects the lymph nodes...if they get totally full of infection the lymph fluid your body is producing can't get back into the blood stream, ergo edema.
I believe this is the reason for protein in urine!
But so far doctor says I am just fat! New doctor (fat caller is fired!)this month, I pray she will help.
Can't keep buying bigger clothes and am horrified at how I look.
Jan
-------------------- 3 Strains Mycoplasma and Chlymedia 2001. After treatment fine for all 2004. Major symptoms since 2005. Diag Aug 2008 Lyme. 400 mg/d doxy 500 2/d Ceftin Posts: 164 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2008
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Vodder massage helps.
It is a very gentle form of lymph massage.
We have LOTS of lymph nodes throughout our body.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I have this too. I have tried several OTC waterpills and some water pills I got from my vitamin shop.
I have even taken some Lasix. Which has not helped. I even tried to uptake my H2o. That didn't helped.
I can't not be on my feet for very long. The pain behind my knees are unbarable! Some days it is worse than others. Even my PCP said it is not normal but ordered no testing.
When I went through my recent records. I discovered he wrote " Here for Headaches. Had tick bite in 96. Was an isolated incodent. I feel it is Physiologiacal in nature.
"Patient has a lot of Chronic health issues. All is good for now". I am hoping to get my IgeneX test back today. They were processed on the 20th. If not today, then Mon. I will be attatching that Progress note along with my results to his forhead when they are possitive. Posts: 109 | From San Antonio,Tx | Registered: May 2008
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-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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You lost me at "technical". (just kidding, well, sort of) LOL!
I'm able to follow enough of what you said technically to understand the basics behind it.
Thank you for the technical explanation!
You sure are smart!
Thanks for the helpful suggestions too!
I'll try to follow through on them, to see if they'll help me.
Sorry to hear about you sister, but glad to hear she found something to help her!
My potassium was quite low, several months ago, so my doctor prescibed some for me to take.
It's came back up to normal, since, and even a month ago, it was normal, although I'm still taking it.
I don't know about my electrolyte status, as I've not been tested for it.
I do have pretty severe hypothyroidism, which I take both armour thyroid and bioidentical compounded T3 for.
I remember reading something here, not long ago, about how Rifampin can mess up some of your hormones, thus now that you mentioned my thyroid could be causing it, I wonder if it could be what's causing my problem.
I'm due for some repeat blood tests, which I have a monthly standing order for.
I'll be getting that done tomorrow, if possible, but if not, then after the holiday, to see if it shows anything abnormal.
Thanks for your help!
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Thanks for the additional dandelion information, Marnie!
Most of all, how I can't take it, since I'm already on a diuretic!
If I had, who knows what would have happened, so thanks for possibly saving me some unnecessary trouble!
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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Sorry to hear you have it, but I hope your new doctor can help you!
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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I'm going to have to reasearch that, because I've never heard of it.
Even if I can find someone in my area to do it, I doubt I can afford it.
Maybe not though, so I'll see what I can come up with.
Do you know if there's anything I can do or take, which will help in about the same way?
What about jumping on my mini trampoline?
Doesn't that stimulate lymph flow?
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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Sorry to hear you have it too, you haven't been able to find anything that helps, and it causes you problems!
Sounds like we're in the same boat.
If you're not taking a diuretic now, perhaps you should try the dandelion Beatlyme and Marnie have suggested?
I'm thinking about going off my diuretic and trying it, just to see if it will help me more.
Hope you got your test back today!
Shame on your doctor!
I think I'd want to attach those to his forehead too!
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Well, I did get my IgeneX back. Only thing is, it was only my statement and reciept. What the hell?
I have been waiting since the 12th of June for a reciept?!!!! ARGH!!! I called my doc but I will have to wait till Mon. now.
I am actually on Armour Thyroid as well. I was taking only 30mg. I felt o.k. for about 3days and then did a nose dive into total Fatigue Land for nearly 2wks.
My Lymphnoids are still swollen and tender too. Hurts to bend my knees. The tops of my thighs hurt so bad , it litterally hurts to sit down.
I called the clinic and she put me on 3 a day for 10days. Then wants me to bump that up to 4 a day. My Thyroid must be pretty low.
I was also put on Cortef for Adrenal Insufeciency. I was bumped up to 3 a day on those as well. Although, I have not been taking them. I am afraid of weight gain with the steroid.
I've already put on 7lbs since April as it is! I thought I had some Dandelion tea in my arsenal of teas. Guess I'll have to buy some.
I found a really good site for ICD-9 coding. So, if you ever wonder what something is in your records you can look it up.
Guess, I'll go and put my turkey legs up. Posts: 109 | From San Antonio,Tx | Registered: May 2008
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
If you can jump on a trampoline...GREAT!!
This stimulates circulation...
In "technical" terms it is a form of "whole body vibration"...
And it DOES INactivate NFkB...
A good thing.
Bb does this at the very outset...but in reality it NEEDS, to survive, NFkB triggered as well as TNF alpha, etc. In a manner of speaking...it causes the wrong signals to be sent to our immune system.
Bb "tricks" us at the very, very beginning when it picks up the SALP15 protein from the mouth of the tick.
If you cannot tolerate a mini trampoline, look into a Soloflex unit. You simply stand on it for about 20 minutes...can do while watching soap operas, or whatever ;-)
This machine and others move us side to side in tiny amts. very quickly.
"Fluid flow induced by a small amplitude harmonically oscillating cascade..."
This side to side motion stimulates fluid flow.
Backup...
Find these articles:
"Vibration Therapy May Help Treat Osteoporosis"
Go to PUBMED and in the search window, type in the # below:
(Talks about much more powerful machines, but note the reference to NASA...and yes...the astronauts use "whole body vibration" to stimulate circulation)
"Better Balance With Vibrating Insoles"
"Vibrating your bod may do muscles, bones good"
"Whole body vibration exercise: training and benefits." (Curr Sports Med Rep. 2008 May-Jun;7(3):152-7.) Abstract on Pubmed.
"Results of a prospective pilot trial on mobility after whole body vibration in children and adolescents with osteogenesis imperfecta." Clin Rehabil. 2008 May;22(5):387-94 (also on Pubmed)
There is still a lot of controversy about these Whole body vibration units...do they really work or not.
I, for one, believe they have some merit...for sure.
I like mine (Soloflex) and would not part with it. (I can't jump on a trampoline 'cause I have had 2 back surgeries and virtually have no disc left between L4-5 to cushion.)
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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I was unable to tolerate my thyroid meds, until I supplemented my adrenals.
I wouldn't be afraid of gaining anymore weight, by supplementing your adrenals, since that should allow you to tolerate your thyroid med.
As a result, that should boost your metabolism, which should allow you to lose some weight.
In the beginning, I lost some and even though it's stalled, I haven't gained any back.
Doing that may even help your legs too.
Sorry to hear you haven't received your test results, but I do hope you can get your hands on them, come Monday.
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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Thanks for yet another really good technical explanation about this complex disease we call lyme!
One, of which, I could actually follow too!
I Googled the Soloflex unit.
Looks very nice!
A little out of my budget, for now, but perhaps I can think about asking Santa for one for Christmas this year? LOL!
So, for now, I guess, I'll just have to settle with jumping on my cheapie trampoline. LOL!
It's really not all that bad and actually enjoyable, when I have the energy to do it, that is, which isn't much thesedays.
I realize, although I'm in alot of pain, I do need to get myself moving more, so I'm going to work on that.
Thanks for the information about the articles!
Very interesting to read, indeed!
Sorry to hear that about your back!
Glad to hear you've found a way to exercise, despite it though!
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Tea made with rose buds (sold in a herbal shop) tastes really good, is a natural anti-inflammatory and is also a diuretic. I take it (a big cup) just before bed. Really really helps with the pain at back of head/neck and shoulders and elsewhere.
Tea made with rose hips is also very effective, just haven't tried it yet as still using up bag of rose buds. They both contain very high amounts of vit C.
As for a good lymph drainage workout, I did try this last year and found it worked well too. One of those blow-up exercise balls - bounce lightly, very lightly, on it morning and night for about 5 min and will give you a full lymph drainage workout. Imagine just sitting/bouncing and all the benefits. Reminds me that I need to blow up my ball and use it.
Hope this helps.
Corinne
Posts: 461 | From Abbotsford, BC, Canada | Registered: Oct 2003
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Thanks for the tea information and ball bouncing suggestion!
I have a ball and like you, all I need to do is blow it up.
I'm going to try that out tomorrow, instead of my trampoline, to see how it works for me.
Thanks for your help!
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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I don't really know what those are, although I have heard of them.
I'll google them soon and see what I can find out about them.
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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Some days it is worse than others. Even my PCP said it is not normal but ordered no testing.![[lol]](graemlins/lol.gif)
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