posted
Is it a good idea to take olive leaf extract or grapefruit seed extract when on doxy & cefdinir?
Posts: 30 | From Northern virginia | Registered: May 2008
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Probably not! E.g., GSE itself is a very powerful antibacterial. And like grapefruit juice, can make the effect of many (not all) meds more powerful.
Also, if you are taking too many things, it will be hard for you to "study" and observe the effects of one med.
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Keebler
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(in just a wondering tone of voice) Well, wouldn't making them more powerful be a GOOD thing?
- or would it be that the reaction might be too strong?
[edited to add: see abstract a few posts down added by Cold Feet.]
And, if GSE is a cyst buster (as some suggest) wouldn't it be good to take at the same time (but hours apart) as doxy as doxy can cause spirochetes to go into cyst form from what I've read.
It may not be that simple, though.
(However, GSE really upsets my stomach. OLE does not.)
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just from my short experience:
I have taken OLE with doxyc. when I was on it the longest, 2 months, and it keep candida away TOTALLY. I also took probiotics but, in my experience probiotics were never enough alone to prevent candida for me.
I did not notice any harsher effect with OLE + doxyc, in fact, felt far less icky with OLE added. My formula also contained forsythia and other herbs meant to help clear out toxins, though.
I took it away from the doxyc. I would NEVER consider taking any abx without my OLE. It's a winner for me. Alone or together.
Of course, this is just what I did - I did not have an LLMD to guide me. I'd be sure to ask - there may also be newer research on either OLE or GSE. Be sure to check PubMed.
GSE might make the medicine leave the body sooner.
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[ 03. July 2008, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Thanks so much for the advice about the OLE and grapefruit seed. I will pick up some OLE this weekend. I cannot afford to go back to my LLMD and I am trying to find an infectious diseases doctor in my insurance network. I am grateful that the LLMD prescribed the antibiotics and the probiotics though. Since I was diagnosed soon (6 weeks after bite), I am hoping that the abx and OLE will wipe out these bugs. Or is this just wishful thinking?
Posts: 30 | From Northern virginia | Registered: May 2008
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Keebler
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posted
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cold feet has a good point about - at least at first - not doing everything together so that you can discern effects.
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you'll still need to read alot and be sure you treat long enough.
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posted
I could be wrong, but I believe GSE (or at least grapefruit juice) keeps the meds in the body longer, thereby making the med effects more long lasting...and seemingly potent. I read it in a good detox document about the liver. I'll dig it up and check it again -- it's a good question. Thx for keeping me honest!!
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Found it! As far as I can tell by cross-referencing, I believe this information is accurate. ________________
``....An efficient liver detoxification system is vital to health and in order to support this process it is essential that many key nutrients are included in the diet. Vitamins and minerals - particularly the B vitamins - play a major role, acting as cofactors for many enzyme systems including those of liver detoxification, therefore ensuring a plentiful supply of the B complex group of vitamins is of prime importance for optimum detoxification. Depletion of vitamin C may also impair the detoxification process; vitamin C also prevents free radical formation. Vitamin E and selenium are cofactors for glutathione peroxidase activity as well as being powerful antioxidants. Other nutrients which play vital roles in the Phase II pathway include amino acids glycine, cysteine, glutamine, methionine, taurine, glutamic acid and aspartic acid. Grapefruit juice, which contains naringenin, slows down Phase I enzyme activity...''
And:
Inhibitors of phase I detoxification
"...Many substances inhibit cytochrome P450. This situation can cause substantial problems as it makes toxins potentially more damaging because they remain in the body longer before detoxification. For example, grapefruit juice decreases the rate of elimination of drugs from the blood and has been found to substantially alter their clinical activity and toxicity. Eight ounces of grapefruit juice contains enough of the flavonoid naringenin to decrease cytochrome P450 activity by a remarkable 30%...''
Substances that Inhibit phase I detoxification:
- Drugs: benzodiazepines; antihistamines; cimetidine and other stomach-acid secretion blocking drugs; ketoconazole; sulfaphenazole - Foods: naringenin from grapefruit juice; curcumin from turmeric; capsaicin form chili pepper; eugenol from clove oil; quercetin from onions - Botanicals: curcuma longa (curcumin); capsicum frutescens (capsaicin); eugenia caryophyllus (eugenol); calendula officianalis - Other: aging; toxins from inappropriate bacteria in the intestines
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Keebler
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Thank you, Cold Feet.
thanks for finding that. it helps a lot and I'll study and transfer it to my file.
and thanks for forcing me to finally sit down and focus on this aspect of it all.
the liver stuff is very hard to grasp - so complex.
I deal with two kinds of chronic porphyria (all that cytochrome P-450 stuff) but my doctor retired long ago, leaving me on my own to figure it all out with brain fog. No other doctors really get this stuff.
It seems a lot of things that are supposed to be good antioxidants inhibit. It's very confusing.
I thought I had read that for people who drank grapefruit juice and took certain meds that it moved through them more quickly.
However, this seems to change that.
And - as individual differences can occur in the effectiveness of their Phase I and Phase II detox pathways, this points out the importance of adding one thing at a time (at least for a day or so) and also the importance of listening to one's own body.
What works for one person can be different for another if their liver is not working tip-top.
METALLlC BLUE
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posted
Grapefruit Seed Extact is potent. For those with stomach problems, consider using Nexium 40mg x 1 with any medication that causes a problem. This should decrease any reflux or burning. Don't be afraid of diluting the extract heavily in water. The point is it's all going into your body, so, either way it's fine.
Yes it's true to read the medications carefully when using Grapefruit Seed Extract. Asking your local pharmacy is useful.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
Keebler, no problem. I am learning too, so thx to all of you for helping me along the way.
I don't know if it is safe to assume that GSE acts the same way as grapefruit juice, I'll have to chase that down too!
Anyone who wants the full articles can go to that web site link. Or, I have it formatted in Word and can send it along...just PM me with your email address.
I did the liver cleanse (Hulda Clark type) twice in the past few months. I mentioned it here, but I was reminded how harsh that me be for many folks here. I still cannot believe the size and number of stones that came out of my body!
Any way, I digress...
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Keebler
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Cold feet - good question you asked: " . . .I don't know if it is safe to assume that GSE acts the same way as grapefruit juice . . ."
I sort of assumed that it would. But I need to step away from the computer, I think.
I'm a bit dazed from a phone-triggered seizure yesterday and should not even try to think - but I'm trying to think to reset my brain. Ohhhh..... someone just slammed a door..... July 4th has begun with a bang.
oh...
about the liver cleanse. It is my belief that liver cleanse/ detox is an on-going process - not an event - and not to push, but to support.
Sudden and harsh stuff can be very hard on our bodies in many cases. It's good that you mentioned that. (And, a large dose of prunes has worked though the ages in stubborn cases. Keep the bowels movin' and the liver is happier.)
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