Topic: If continual antibiotic isn't the answer, what is?
lyme in Putnam
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11561
posted
I think my question says it all. I guess we're all looking for that answer, but there has to be another way besides symptom free and back on iv or orals the next year.
-------------------- He took u to it, He'll you through Posts: 2837 | From NE. | Registered: Apr 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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It's the combination, rotation, complementary and interdisciplinary rumba interspersed with patience, persistence and skills acquired to live in an alternate universe !
luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
One of the presidential candidates recently said "We need a healthcare system, not a disease care system" and I sat upright with my ears pricked forward.
Not that I buy into what comes out of politition's mouths at election time, but still, it was an acknowledgement that the way we approach healthcare in America is wrong. It is reactive at best and only deals with the symptoms. Western medicine assumes once the symptom is gone, problem is solved and that just ain't so.
Antibiotics kill a little and suppress a lot. That is why there are so many relapses when you go off the abx.
We have to do more than just abx.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4715
posted
Some people think Colloidal Silver is "the answer".
Mesosilver definitely caused me to herx.
Theoretically, though, it's still considered an abx.
Exercise, healthy diet, supplements and prayer would be a good place to start (or finish).
posted
I have always wondered about colloidal silver. One LLMD told me it works on yeast but not LD. I wonder if that statement is correct or not?
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Oh, silver WILL work on lyme. I'm proof. But I don't think it's good to take long-term and I have reservations about it. But, with all things, educate and then proceed.
If you take silver, be CERTAIN that it is top quality. Some of those who have (incorrectly) made their own can develop serious problems and even have skin turn permanently grey/blue.
Good brands from good water are the key. Although it got me out of a wheelchair about 10 years ago, I do think my liver had trouble processing it.
So, it's not the end-all-be-all to all. You still need to be careful as the body does not take it back out easily.
GiGi has some good posts on this. Search for that above.
--
Allicin, really is fantastic. It's not given nearly the credit. But, again, it's not for everyone.
Buhner's book is very good.
We have many options. and the Bionic 880 is giving me new hope.
posted
Byron, I know you are doing hard core ABX now. What do you add to the ABX?
(Except from a good food, excercise, vit & minerals, detox etc.)
Posts: 347 | From sweden | Registered: Feb 2008
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Antibiotics weren't the answer for me. I think it depends on things like genetics, how long you've been ill, etc.
I haven't taken any abx since last November '07. I don't miss them at all.
The new trend on this message board is using infrared light.
Garlic is looking to be a very viable alternative, as well.
Do some reading here & you'll see there are many alternatives to antibiotics. There are many good herbal protocols.
If one thing doesn't work, try something else. Antibiotics aren't the only game in town...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I'm using a Doug coil machine with good results. I've had lyme for 18 years, been using the Doug for 14 months. I'm better in a lot of ways, but not totally well yet. It's supposed to take a couple years for a cure.
I can't tolerate antibiotics at all, so something like this is my only option. I know Doug who invented it and cured his family with it, so I know it's on the level. The herxes aren't any fun, but I know it's working.
Posts: 4 | From near Seattle | Registered: Jul 2008
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
welcome chubby one! glad you found us. ******************************************
PLEASE update my profile and ENABLE PRIVATE MESSAGES; that's how we send llmd, lyme literate md info, and that's how i send my newbie package of info galore!! see below.
WELCOME, would you like a FREE copy of my newbie package of 124 pages info galore sent by LYMENET'S PRIVATE MESSAGE system here; includes TREEPATROL'S LINK of his archive of over 1000 links of good lyme info?
I've been completely REORGANIZING it; NOT DONE YET; but up to page 60 since I have now created a TABLE OF CONTENTS WITHOUT PAGE NUMBERS since it changes DAILY! The part NOT organized yet is the last 30 pages of SSDI, ss disability insurance benefits tips/forms!
also, please go to TREEPATROL'S NEWBIE INFO IN MEDICAL; at top being features; mark it as a favorite! over 1000 links of good lyme info. He/I have some duplicates.
most of mine is very DETAILED info on certain things: SSDI/ss diability insurance benefits; FINANCIAL BURDENS; about IGENEX blood testing, symptoms lists for the basic types, NOIR/no infrared SUNGLASSES, etc. and how to use this board!
If you would like my newbie package, please send me a PRIVATE MESSAGE. PMs are the 2 people standing together icon to right of your name. Just ask me to send you lyme package, and I'll get it to you promptly. Thank you! ******************************
we recommend 6-12 WEEKS of doxycycline antibiotics; 2 months symptom FREE before stopping antibiotics.
so glad you found dr. burrascano's 05 lyme guidelines!
call your dr. and DEMAND MORE! you are now in the LYME WAR CONTROVERSY ... another thing you didn't ask for!
please see BELOW LINK about ACTION ALERTS....CALLING 4 WASH. DC PHONE NOS. GIVING THEM YOUR FULL NAME/COMPLETE MAILING ADDRESS AND TO "PUT LYME DISEASE ON THEIR AGENDA!"!!!!
IDSA, infectious disease society of america, are infectious drs. who:
.. do NOT believe in CHRONIC LYME;
.. treat from 1 day to 3 weeks MAX ANTITIOBICS, AND YOU ARE "CURED"! HOG WASH!!
ILADS, intl lyme associated disease society, are our LLMDS, LYME LITERATE MDS, and they:
... believe in chronic lyme AND TREAT US AS LONG AS NECESSARY!!!
... another controversy; various STATE HEALTH DEPTS. FILING CHARGES on our llmds for treating antibiotics longer than 4 weeks!!!
example: see activism; read about DR. CHARLES RAY JONES, KIDS NO. 1 LLMD IN CONN! starting his 3rd year of charges trying to take away his license!!!
*********************
Also, if you are needing a LLMD, LYME LITERATE MD, please post on board in SEEKING DR. forum. Go to FORUM HOME, right corner click, and then chose seeking dr.
We ask that ALL members post in seeking dr. and START THEIR OWN ``NEW'' POSTS vs. adding on to someone else's because we can NOT keep track of who has been answered and who NEEDS to be replied to ok!
Many of you have been sending me a private message asking for llmd names and have NOT posted on the board. I require you to post online because when you show the state and largest cities nearest you; others from YOUR STATE WILL JUMP IN and give you the MOST CURRENT info that they have.
We have nationwide lists do NOT have most current info! We do what we can, but we depend on members to share all updates, deletions, phone nos. not working or changed, etc. with us. Then we let the others know promptly who have lists!
So thank you for starting YOUR OWN POST in seeking dr! We/I will help you as much as possible over there! Betty *******************************************
When you post or reply, please break up your solid, continuous block text
welcome to the board! many of us have neuro lyme where we can NOT read long solid block text and be able to comprehend and read it as is.
please edit your post by CLICKING PAPER/PENCIL ICON to right of your name. that opens up BOTH subject line and body text.
now please break up your WORDY SENTENCES into one sentence paragraphs. Then hit ENTER KEY ``THREE`` after each paragraph; we need that space for comprehension.
if you are NOT a wordy person, you can do 2 or 3 total ok. do this for your entire post.
NOTE: you do NOT have to use "", just show the name of person you are responding to, and then type your comment.
IF you need to use "", PLEASE DELETE "BOLD" CODES so it's regular type text we read vs. the DARK, HARSH/PAINFUL BOLDING.
specifically, delete the first 4 characters of 2ND LINE of a ""
[QB] just delete these 4 characters, and BOLDING is GONE! my eyes will really appreciate that; it's one very bad side effect of my having lyme for 38.5 years!! xox
then go to left hand corner and mark box to receive ALL REPLIES, and click EDIT SEND
we thank you for helping us; otherwise, we will SOB, SCROLL ON BY, since we can't read to help you. If I see posts like this, I SOB them; to hard on me. I'm also in the early stages of losing my eyesight from diabetes retinopathy.
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daise
Unregistered
posted
Hi!
The topic of this thread is: If continual antibiotic isn't the answer, what is?
Lyme in Putnam: You said, "I guess we're all looking for that answer."
Bull! But improvement in treatment? Of course. That's common sense.
You wrote: "... but there has to be another way besides symptom free and back on iv or orals the next year."
Not true for most with chronic Lyme who get ILADS treatment. Most get their lives back. Most have fatigue.
For now, after high dose, prolonged, multiple antibiotics, I plan on probably taking a low dose, probably every other day, antibiotic as a precaution ... until something better comes along.
What about TBI's?
Antibiotics beat dieing a horrible death. That beats profound suffering. That beats pain so bad there are no painkillers. At all.
Imagine newbies and guests seeking help: When they browse the thread topics and see too many that are bull-muck after bull-muck, what can they be thinking? It's just so prevalent here now.
Why would a newbie seek an LLMD following ILADS guidelines, when you and irresponsible others claim they do not help anybody.
Most newbies do not have the money to experiment with the plater of theories-as-protocol, even if they wanted to. According to your thread topic, they should not bother with ILADS meds--at all. Go off, find a hole and suffer in it for the rest of their lives?
Who says antibiotics are not the answer--for most, for now, until treatment improves--heck it's continually improving. It evolved from--not much. Along with supplements that are common sense for SUPPORTING their body? Who are you to proclaim that topic?
And why do you support the IDSA stance, that antibiotics are not good for you? In the face of what? Getting your life back?
This board is getting far too negative, off-track and off-kilter, to what is common sense: to what is known to help most with chronic Lyme.
Please go to www.ilads.org and on the left menu click "Treatment Guidelines." Print both guidelines: ILADS Guidelines and Dr. B's for 2005.
At the least, please just consider that this body of work might have merit. On what grounds would anyone trash it in its entirety?
I fully realize that after antibiotic treatment for chronic Lyme and TBI's (1-3 years or so, perhaps more) some--SOME--are not remarkably better or not better enough. They're still searching, and I dearly hope they find answers.
But for God sakes, why throw out ALL of ILADS doctors' hard work and their patients' response? That is not rational. It is cruel. And it is not accurate.
Ranting? Fine.
Fear? Fine.
Alarm? Fine.
Experimenting? Fine.
But outright bull?
There is thread after thread of this muck--too much. Please don't try to drag everyone down with outright bull. What's the point?
On what grounds can anyone proclaim that the thread of this topic is vastly true?
Please learn to try and sense the genuine posts from the PURE BULL stuff, from the salespeople, from any trolls, and from what's daffy.
Shheeeesh.
Yes, most people improve remarkably with high dose, prolonged, multiple antibiotics. A small number do not. I feel for them.
But again, most do! Perfect? Not most. Treatment of the future to improve? Of course.
Rianna
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11038
posted
It is a combination approach that is needed
To treat co infections 1st
To use combination antibiotics and consider IV if orals are not working
To use heparin and or Trental for antibiotic penetration
To use immune system modulators
To use a high detox regime ensuring the liver/lymph and Bowel/colon are continually detoxing by using Glutathione/colonics/colon cleanses/lymph drainage and water with burbur/parsley etc
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
If you want to go the "traditional" route, drugs in other categories can help.
ARB inhibitors (lower cholesterol).
Prozac (in high doses)seems to help. There is a phosphate transfer link as well as a serotonin-sailac acid (they bind apparently) link.
Then there is pentoxifylline...maybe. Research it in depth and see HOW it works, what it is used for, etc.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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ByronSBell 2007
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by swedish lyme sufferer: Byron, I know you are doing hard core ABX now. What do you add to the ABX?
(Except from a good food, excercise, vit & minerals, detox etc.)
the things you listed along with Glutathione IV's, antioxidant IV's, Heparin IV, and plenty of fluids
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
quote:Originally posted by luvs2ride: ...and I sat upright with my ears pricked forward.
Now that was spoken like a true horse.
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Daise...many of us have been on this board for MANY YEARS.
Check our profiles.
While I respect Dr. B tremendously and am forever grateful for his research and his ATTEMPT to halt lyme, I do recognize now that
this disease does indeed lead to cancer...esp. breast and prostate...without a doubt.
Dr. B is, right now...fighting prostate cancer...early stage. He has publically stated the reason he got into lyme research initially is because HE "had" lyme.
I am here because my sister is now "autoimmune" as a result of lyme. The typical "autoimmune" drugs helped for awhile (reduce inflammation), but did NOT cure. The destruction continued.
Three years of nonstop abx (name them...she was on them) and a ton of supplements did NOT cure her.
She was misdx'd and given steroids initially.
= stage 1 -> stage 3 overnight...literally.
Her fingers and toes are very crippled. She does not have the strength to lift a carton of milk, much less open it. She has lost most of her curly hair. Her legs are horribly edematous. She is in constant pain. She has had both knees replaced and the doc (MAJOR HOSP.) said they were the worse knees he had ever seen and he didn't know how she could walk. She almost lost her eyesight at one point (uveitis) and could only see the big "E" on the chart. She is on the highest dose of Prozac to cope.
Now...before you blast those of us who have, over a number of years, figured out that abx. do not CURE this disease, but "merely" help to hide/reduce some symptoms while others arise...
you might want to re-think your post.
You might want to go to this website and see the current gov. trials using far infrared to hopefully cure a number of diseases:
"Why would a newbie seek an LLMD following ILADS guidelines, when you and irresponsible others claim they do not help anybody."
Irresponsible others?
Want 4000 MS word file about this disease?
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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daise
Unregistered
posted
Marnie,
Your response doesn't make sense, in light of what I wrote.
quote: Marnie wrote:
Now...before you blast those of us who have, over a number of years, figured out that abx. do not CURE this disease, but "merely" help to hide/reduce some symptoms while others arise...
you might want to re-think your post.
You might want to go to this website and see the current gov. trials using far infrared to hopefully cure a number of diseases:
I would not go there because I don't want to buy anything from you.
Hey everybody: Next, I expect she'll blast me for not buying her product.
Rianna
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11038
posted
This may get me thrown off this board but I totally agree with Daise.
I am so sick to death of Marnie and her fanatical movement stating AB's are not the cure/answer, well go ask most of the ILADS docs and check the statistics.
I agree that you MUST take a combination approach with high dosage AB's with the most important being eliminating the damaging Neurotoxins throughout AB treatment, otherwise you will do untold damage to the body.
I am strong, I am well informed and have a fantastic LLMD and I can honestly say last night after reading many of Marnies posts I went to bed and honestly considered suicide and still feel very very down from Marnies posts, so god knows what newbies feel like.
I really think this board is about offering suport, help and hope to others, responding to their questions in a positive way and NOT by giving a load of scientific spilge that no one understands and not by being so blinkered its a one all approach.
OK Marnie, AB's and detox have not worked for your family but they have for many - I agree your Bionic 880 or far infared/Rife has a place but be more supportive in your posts to others who are on AB's as many many get better on them.
TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
I've been on abx straight for 2+ years and while I've had some symptoms improve, I am still very ill.
I don't claim to know the answer but I do know that there is more than just abx that are needed for many of us who have chronic lyme. Like others have said, I think genetics, length of time infected etc. etc. are all part of the picture.
I think it is a mistake to blast those who are trying to help with their research. Marnie has a good mind and background for scientific research.
Personally, I want to thank Marnie for her many contributions. I've put together a number of puzzling things regarding the whys of my lyme disease due to Marnie and her posts.
We are looking for answers. No reason to attack each other.
I'm very happy for those who get well on abx alone. I know it is hard to understand that some of us don't get well on abx alone. I hope you will let us explore and discuss so that we too can live a life worth living. Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Bb is no ordinary bacteria.
But, I do believe, with our tremendous knowledge of Bb ( "recent" genetic research) we have a much better handle on how we MIGHT be able to destroy it.
I do believe it is possible.
I do believe others who have reported they recovered via using Rife therapy. But it takes a couple of years along with a very healthy lifestyle (which many are not willing to do) to work.
Dr. Royal Rife (Northwestern grad) in the 1940s made incredible microscopes using multiple prisims to magnify. They are in the Smithsonian. He used these microscopes to magnify bacteria and to watch them when they were ALIVE. (Electron microscopes kill the pathogens.)
These prisims bend light into the different wavelengths (like a rainbow does). Rife could observe living pathogens and their response to the different wavelengths.
And he made the connection between wavelengths and frequencies that enabled him to destroy the pathogens he was observing. He cured cancer via sending specific frequencies thru an argon gas filled light (blue) to increase the depth of penetration.
I do believe those who have said to me that Benicar (ARB), in high doses, cured them. Especially because we know for fact that this pathogen follows the "cholesterol" pathway...it needs amino acids to build its cell walls.
I do believe lyme patients CAN INDEED RECOVER COMPLETELY.
I have said, repeatedly...never ever give up hope. We WILL find a way.
Some already have.
Now we are looking at yet another way to destroy Bb while at the same time, support our own system (power up the mitochondria).
I am hopeful (very) that far infrared using the 880nM wavelength will work with the least amt. of subsequential "side effects".
WHEN Bb is destroyed, there will be a number of amino acids (from its cell walls) and a number of minerals suddenly released.
The minerals, in excess, can be toxic. Bb is using Mn to replicate. Up goes Mn. Bb uses Na..up goes sodium. Bb has zinc fingers. Up goes zinc.
To an extent, the amino acids release will help to counter the minerals as a lot of acids + a mineral -> hydrogen.
Our pH will change.
Lots to consider. Lots to think about.
A recent post re: biofilms and sialic acid...I did NOT leave you without "hope". Read the ending paragraphs.
Yes, you have a horrible bacterial infection.
But the viral infections are even worse and faster (SARS, HIV, etc.).
Yes, you CAN be cured. We know of 2 ways so far and we are looking at a potential 3rd way.
This is cutting edge stuff.
I believe the vast majority of people on this board believe, know, that Bb can persist.
People who have been "cured" via abx. don't post here.
Those are the lucky ones. Perhaps they had the short gene enabling them to make more HO-1. Perhaps they didn't have one of the 9 very virulent strains of Bb(which might be related to a gene for alkaline phosphatase).
God Bless and watch over the pioneers who are leading the way.
P.S. Daise...I am in NO WAY connected to any doctor or any product (machine, supplements, website,book,etc.) and I have never been. That IS GOD's truth. I have not and will not take any money from my research ever.
Why you would not click on a gov. website link which merely lists the current medical trials using far infrared (recruiting candidates)is beyond me.
[ 07. July 2008, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
I am someone who took a lot of antibiotics and I am currently eager to hear about other ways to heal without them. I am thankful for Marnie's insight and anyone else's insight on the subject. I am thankful my LLMD offers his patients more then just antibiotics and if one gets tired of taking antibiotics he respects his patients wishes.
We all heal and improve in different ways. What works for one person with this disease may not work for another.
It is always good to keep an open mind especially when dealing with this disease. Respect for other people and their opinions is important as well.
Thank you Marnie for your continued help and presence on this board and to everyone who offers a sincere opinion option or mode of dealing with this disease.
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gemofnj
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15551
posted
I am relatively new to lyme and I was never told it lead to cancers and all other types of serious diseases.
Is there proof that it does? Is it assumed that it does? Is it coincidental because our immune systems are low?
And why wouldnt the whole world be studying lyme and its connection to any of these diseases if this was even possible! YIKES.
Maybe I am naive, however this is rather scary!
Posts: 1127 | From atlantic city, nj | Registered: May 2008
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feelfit
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12770
posted
I have always respected both Daise and Marnie. So Daise, please take no offense when I say that I NEVER got the impression that Marnie was selling ANYTHING!!!!!
I am one of those folks who is not having much success with antibiotics. I know that I have Lyme with 9 bands all Bb specific on IgM. I feel pretty much the same today as I did 9 months ago when I started tx...which has included IV tx.
That being said, I have been following Marnies research w/ great interest....hoping that there is something to this. A lot of it, I am not able to comprehend....tooo scientific for my limited experience.
Marnie simplifing would be so appreciated.
Also Marnie, you stated that we know two ways to cure Lyme so far. What are they? And that you are very excited about the third possibility, which I understand is the infrared 880.
when you speak of high dose prozac, how high?
Thank you ladies for both points of view from one who likes to digest all information and draw her own conclusions.
feelfit Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
From what I've read, the Lyme spirochete can affect all major cell types of the immune system, but it most clearly can impact a specific subset of the natural killer cells called the CD-57 subset which is part of the immune system which fights cancer.
Thus, there is some concern that chronic Lyme may undermine the body's cancer fighting ability.
And thanks Marnie for sharing this info about light therapy with us. Personally, I feel you have been very mild in your response to unfounded accusations that you are selling us something. I've seen this kind of attack before and it only undermines the credibility of the poster when no evidence is presented.
What I find hurtful on this board, is treating others disrespectfully.
In my case, I find it very depressing to think that the only treatment that works is to be on continual abx, especially because it is very difficult to get a doctor to keep on prescribing abx and who wants to fight yeast infections forever?
Knowing that research into new ways of fighting lyme is out there, is very encouraging. So even if this doesn't pan out I am interested in knowing about it and anything else on the horizon.
Posts: 590 | From Canada | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Please Marnie this disease is depressing enough. Whoe's to say DR B wouldn't have got the cancer any way. It's bad enough this is the Mohhamidali Ali of all pathegens, but it takes more than 15 rounds to knock it out, and it's clever at dodging the blows as well.
The Bionic is the new Kid on The Block ."But light therapy stimulates production of Nitric Oxide' (as stated on the thread) And you say Bb likes Nitric Oxide .
I am having problems understanding that. !!!!!!!
Posts: 153 | From England | Registered: Jun 2008
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lymielauren28
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13742
posted
Daise how absolutely, RIDICULOUSLY preposterous to suggest someone almost commited suicide from reading someone else's posts.
I think that anything that may lead to a way should be explored by those that want to explore it - if you don't want to read it and have no interest in it fine - but pretty ridiculous of you to blast others for choosing a different path.
Maybe YOU should explore other treatment options because lyme-rage is obviously getting the best of you - maybe you should try a little Prozac instead of blaming Marnie for the entire fall of the universe.
Jeez.
-------------------- "The only way out is through" Posts: 1434 | From mississippi | Registered: Nov 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I think Marnie is great... she's been following all of this info & studying it own her own to help someone she loves. I wish people in my own family we this concerned about me!
I give her alot of credit. I have never seen her trying to sell anything. I just don't know what you are talking about, daise.
I am currently trying out the infrared light therapy. I studied it & decided to give it a try.
It's only been about a week & I am having great results. I've gone from a constant level of pain at about 7 or 8 for that last 7 - 10 years (at least) to a 3 within a week. NO HERXING!
Maybe people will attack me - I don't know.
Please try to wrap your head around the studies about healing with light. This stuff is the real deal.
Yes. Something so simple can really work!
This information is being suppressed because the drug companies will go out of business. For real!
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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lyme in Putnam
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11561
posted
Sorry - I didn't mean to open a can of worms with this subject. The only thing that seems to work for me is antibiotics - and get discouraged
when I am off for a little while and symptoms seems to edge back and I'm back on again. I do
have bouts of feeling well and I'm lucky for that. Not everyone has that. Lyme has caused
me much grief, mostly cognitive, but also muscle and joint pain. From lyme not being diagnosed
early enough, I have developed hyponutremia (a salt condition), thyroid condition, has worsened
OCD symptoms and has caused v-tac (am on beta blockers) also after 2 spec scans down at
Columbia, showing moderate global hypoperfusion. I have lyme and bartonella.
Everyone has what makes them feel better and I wanted to ask so I can try something besides
antibiotics. I don't have much knowledge on the other things - I'm scared to try something new
because I remember what it feels like not to recognize emotionally my husband, son, family
and friends and I guess am afraid for that to happen again. I know it might happen to get
better, but I'm scared to try. I love my llmd and she's traditional antibiotics. I trust her
because she got me back to the "land of the living" with 10 mos of rocephin,zithromax. I
was off a year and went back for 6 mos after relapsing.
Be well and sorry to make this post as controversial as it turned out to be.
-------------------- He took u to it, He'll you through Posts: 2837 | From NE. | Registered: Apr 2007
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lyme in Putnam
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11561
posted
Sorry - I didn't mean to open a can of worms with this subject. The only thing that seems to work for me is antibiotics - and get discouraged
when I am off for a little while and symptoms seems to edge back and I'm back on again. I do
have bouts of feeling well and I'm lucky for that. Not everyone has that. Lyme has caused
me much grief, mostly cognitive, but also muscle and joint pain. From lyme not being diagnosed
early enough, I have developed hyponutremia (a salt condition), thyroid condition, has worsened
OCD symptoms and has caused v-tac (am on beta blockers) also after 2 spec scans down at
Columbia, showing moderate global hypoperfusion. I have lyme and bartonella.
Everyone has what makes them feel better and I wanted to ask so I can try something besides
antibiotics. I don't have much knowledge on the other things - I'm scared to try something new
because I remember what it feels like not to recognize emotionally my husband, son, family
and friends and I guess am afraid for that to happen again. I know it might happen to get
better, but I'm scared to try. I love my llmd and she's traditional antibiotics. I trust her
because she got me back to the "land of the living" with 10 mos of rocephin,zithromax. I
was off a year and went back for 6 mos after relapsing.
Be well and sorry to make this post as controversial as it turned out to be.
-------------------- He took u to it, He'll you through Posts: 2837 | From NE. | Registered: Apr 2007
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ByronSBell 2007
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by lyme in Putnam: Sorry - I didn't mean to open a can of worms with this subject. The only thing that seems to work for me is antibiotics - and get discouraged
when I am off for a little while and symptoms seems to edge back and I'm back on again. I do
have bouts of feeling well and I'm lucky for that. Not everyone has that. Lyme has caused
me much grief, mostly cognitive, but also muscle and joint pain. From lyme not being diagnosed
early enough, I have developed hyponutremia (a salt condition), thyroid condition, has worsened
OCD symptoms and has caused v-tac (am on beta blockers) also after 2 spec scans down at
Columbia, showing moderate global hypoperfusion. I have lyme and bartonella.
Everyone has what makes them feel better and I wanted to ask so I can try something besides
antibiotics. I don't have much knowledge on the other things - I'm scared to try something new
because I remember what it feels like not to recognize emotionally my husband, son, family
and friends and I guess am afraid for that to happen again. I know it might happen to get
better, but I'm scared to try. I love my llmd and she's traditional antibiotics. I trust her
because she got me back to the "land of the living" with 10 mos of rocephin,zithromax. I
was off a year and went back for 6 mos after relapsing.
Be well and sorry to make this post as controversial as it turned out to be.
your relapsing because the bartonella is in the red blood cells, when you go off treatment they come out and make you ill again. IV Roc and Zith is not enough to be your only treatment, more needs to be done..... just advice
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
herxuk,
"We have established that *activation* of PKCd, a novel PKC isozyme, induces apoptosis through a caspase-3-*independent* mechanism in androgen-sensitive prostate cancer cells."
Translation...IF PKCD (protein kinase C delta) WAS activated, the cancerous cell could die(apoptosis) which is what we need cancer cells to do. Caspase 3 is NOT involved.
The body is trying hard to activate PKCD to counter...
Bb has a PKC *inhibitor*. I am 99.9999999% sure it is PKCD.
This allows the infected cell to become immortal = HeLa cell.
The cell does NOT die.
Cytochrome C, if released, causes a cell to die.
Programmed cell death is triggered by cytochrome C.
Bb has a protein that is bound to (cytochrome C + nitric oxide).
No cell death...Cytochrome C is locked on.
About breast cancer also...E2, a form of estrogen, directly *attempts* to activate PKCD.
Cancer cells NEED glucose. The have very few mitochondria remaining (powerhouses). There is DNA damage (undermethylated) and the cells then multiply out of control.
But...if we oxidize cytochrome C via activating the COX-1 enzyme...what is Bb's protein gonna lock onto?
The far infrared wavelength, 880nM looks to activate COX-1, but not so much to destroy that enzyme.
Heat...can trigger enzymes, but too much heat destroys enzymes.
BTW...H. Pylori is directly related to stomach cancer. Google it.
Is it so hard to realize that
pathogens...bacteria AND viruses can and do
ultimately trigger cancer?
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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