posted
But I can't burn copies to send out because that's piracy right? I can't afford 40 bucks a pop to send to these idiots. But I really want them to see this.
Is there anything I can do?
-------------------- "~*~My smile hides my bite~*~." Posts: 506 | From N/A | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Send each of them Pam Weintraub's book; "Cure Unknown: Inside the Lyme Epidemic"!
I wrote a letter to each of the idiots who told me there was nothing wrong with me. That was years ago.
I now realize what I did not realize back then; that they probably did know what was wrong with me but were afraid to diagnose or treat me. Fear of loss of a medical license is a powerful incentive NOT to have anything to do with Lyme disease.
Period.
My opinion.
-------------------- nan Posts: 2135 | From Tick Country | Registered: Oct 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Nessa1815: But I can't burn copies to send out because that's piracy right?
Yes, it's illegal to do that. It's called Copyright Infringement and stealing. And to be honest I had to cringe when I saw you post this publicly.
Andy and everyone associated with this film worked really hard for many years to do this documentary. This film was privately funded, for the most part. Even some Lymenet members contributed money to support the making of this film because they believed so strongly in its message. This film was not funded by a major movie studio with huge investors.
The rights to this film belong to the filmmakers not to you.
Please don't attempt to take from Andy what is due him.
We with Lyme have been literally shouting from the mountaintops to be heard. Now when we finally have an opportunity for the message to be communicated in an efficient, effective manner in a media form that is well suited to mass consumption by the general public, you're considering stealing that message simply because you can't afford to purchase as many copies as you'd like.
The Under Our Skin documentary is too important an endeavor to the Lyme movement to be mucked with that way, especially by a Lyme patient. Don't sabotage the very people you're accepting help and information from.
As far as you wanting to spread the word on your own, save your pennies and buy copies as you can or send letters to those doctors suggesting they see the film themselves.
Posts: 503 | From Maryland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Rianna
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11038
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nessa1815: I can't afford 40 bucks
My copy only cost $15.00 ??
Sorry just looked it was $34.00
This DVD gave me the courage to go on with treatment and I think you should start by sending the link to order this to your family & friends so they can order it - this is what will get public awareness.
Save your energy until you are well to fight the medical profession as that woudl be unhealthy for you right now - your priority is to get better and then become an actavist.
posted
No, No, No, I would never ever want to take away from Andy's work and you really shouldn't cringe. It's just desperation for the cause. I think you can understand that. In my opinion, and many may think it's flawed, but for this to come to light, $40 bucks for a movie is a lot and I'd love to see them massed produced at a lower cost after HE recovers his costs for what he spent on the movie.
It wasn't about stealing from Andy at all. I just want these doctors to see the truth. That's all.
Geez.
-------------------- "~*~My smile hides my bite~*~." Posts: 506 | From N/A | Registered: Jun 2008
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The CNN link is not working at the moment - not sure why but if you scroll down it's there
-------------------- "We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us" - e.m. forster Posts: 921 | From PA | Registered: Jan 2004
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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I would be extremely careful in how to introduce this to doctors who really don't want to know.
This film deserves the utmost respect and we don't want to have the DVDs hitting anyone on the head .
It must be presented with honor to the filmmakers.
What might be great is to get the patient education or community groups to show the films and invite all the doctors.
May a local parks and recreation department could sponsor it. A group outside of of the support group setting to make it "safer" (in their own minds) for the doctors to attend.
You might ask local support groups - or the LDA - the best ways to present this to a doctor.
Tone is very important and if it's presented in anger it will do more harm than good.
lymednva
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9098
posted
Keebler makes some excellent points:
quote: I would be extremely careful in how to introduce this to doctors who really don't want to know.
This film deserves the utmost respect and we don't want to have the DVDs hitting anyone on the head .
It must be presented with honor to the filmmakers.
What might be great is to get the patient education or community groups to show the films and invite all the doctors.
May a local parks and recreation department could sponsor it. A group outside of of the support group setting to make it "safer" (in their own minds) for the doctors to attend.
You might ask local support groups - or the LDA - the best ways to present this to a doctor.
Tone is very important and if it's presented in anger it will do more harm than good.
I have two copies, one to keep as my own and one to loan to family members, friends, anyone who will listen and watch.
I am hoping to put together a presentation at my church and in my own community. I live in one of the most endemic counties in the country.
-------------------- Lymednva Posts: 2407 | From over the river and through the woods | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Who said it was going to be presented in anger?? Just because I used the term "shafted" doesn't mean I'm going to write scathing letters with a pirated dvd.
Toooooooooooooo sensitive. You try to help the cause, get desperate at the injustice of the cause, and then get put down because of it.
Losen up, just a little. From one Lymie to another. Sheesh. Everyone posts everyyyyyyything about Lyme related material on here, but the minute I want to try to make a difference, oh god no. That's stealing. And that's totally not what I wanted to do. And you know dang good and well I didn't. I'm done.
-------------------- "~*~My smile hides my bite~*~." Posts: 506 | From N/A | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Oh another thing, "save my pennies"? Oh you mean the ones I DON'T HAVE BECAUSE I HAVE LYME? Or the pennies that my husband is pulling out of his 401k to pay for LLMD treatment?
An upper middle class family with everything is rapidly being reduced to nothing. Health wise, financial wise, relationship wise. Everything.
Save your pompous crap for someone else. I've never stolen a *$*$ thing in my life. I just wanted to help the cause. But honestly, you can be obsessed with your Lyme but I'm gonna get better. Period.
It's like everyone wants to be crusaders but the minute I ask if it is piracy, wow, I get jumped on. I am not the kind of person to jump on. Trust me. Shame on you. You know what I meant. It was out of good intentions. Screw it all. Screw Lyme. Screw this life of pain. Screw it ALL. Even this board, some and most have been helpful and this isn't aimed at you.
AND NO, I'M NOT BREAKING UP THE TEXT. SO JUST SOB.
-------------------- "~*~My smile hides my bite~*~." Posts: 506 | From N/A | Registered: Jun 2008
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Rianna
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11038
posted
Nessa Honey,
Please Please dont get cross - I totally understand your plight and your frustration but honestly right now concentrate on getting better and then you will be in a position to be well enough to fight the cause of other Lyme suffers.
I know its soooo hard, mentally, physically and financially but lets stick together here and leave the fighting to the medical profession for now.
And yes with your spirit and determination you will beat this, just as I will, but again until then concentrate on You and your treatment and then go kick a@@
quote:Originally posted by Nessa1815: Oh another thing, "save my pennies"? Oh you mean the ones I DON'T HAVE BECAUSE I HAVE LYME? Or the pennies that my husband is pulling out of his 401k to pay for LLMD treatment?
An upper middle class family with everything is rapidly being reduced to nothing. Health wise, financial wise, relationship wise. Everything.
Save your pompous crap for someone else. I've never stolen a *$*$ thing in my life. I just wanted to help the cause. But honestly, you can be obsessed with your Lyme but I'm gonna get better. Period.
It's like everyone wants to be crusaders but the minute I ask if it is piracy, wow, I get jumped on. I am not the kind of person to jump on. Trust me. Shame on you. You know what I meant. It was out of good intentions. Screw it all. Screw Lyme. Screw this life of pain. Screw it ALL. Even this board, some and most have been helpful and this isn't aimed at you.
AND NO, I'M NOT BREAKING UP THE TEXT. SO JUST SOB.
Nice.
You asked for confirmation as to whether burning copies of Andy's documentary was piracy. You were given an answer. But don't take my word for it. You can look up the laws on Copyright yourself.
By the way, I'm sure you're aware of this already, but you're not the only one who is angry about the issue of Lyme and all the ugly truths that are thrown upon a Lyme patient's (and family's) doorstep.
As a personal aside to the issue of anger, you wouldn't believe the thoughts that have run through my mind about what I'd like to do to all the doctors who missed my diagnosis, marginalized me, mistreated me, for well over a decade etc. etc. Those entirely nonproductive, vengeful fantasies of mine are usually reserved for the many days where I'm confined to bed or sofa.
Take a deep breath, Nessa. We're on the same side -- the same side that Andy Abrahams Wilson is on, by the way.
Fuzz
Posts: 503 | From Maryland | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
People shouldn't have to PAY FOR THE TRUTH. You guys figure it out.
-------------------- "~*~My smile hides my bite~*~." Posts: 506 | From N/A | Registered: Jun 2008
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
nessa,
i personally suggest you DELETE this post since YOU discussed making copies of it ILLEGALLY.
TO DELETE, click pencil; go to top left corner
click DELETE POST; HIT ENTER, and it's gone.
what you meant and how it came out here, did NOT come out right. quit while you are ahead.
yes, write your drs., give them links for under our skin trailer and pam's book, etc.
you can do good that way.
and i will not be stopping by again...
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
We don't have to pay for all information but it can take forever to gather and sort and sift and pull it together.
We have much detailed information and many, many articles at our disposal for no charge - other than internet connection. ILADS, as an organization, has been most generous in sharing their work.
So many researchers in the field of chronic stealth infection have made it possible for their research to be at our fingertips.
However, when someone writes a book or produces a film, that work holds a copyright. We are paying for the hours - years - of research and their effort and skill. Hopefully, these folks can then take care of themselves in this line of work and go on to more projects that will make a difference.
We are paying for the manner in which they can effectively communicate a lot in a short amount of time.
Few of us can buy all (or any) of the books that hold more specific information and few can buy duplicate DVDs of either the ILADS seminars or the new film.
Still, there are ways to share with others by passing around for a few days' at time.
We can ask certain organizations if they would buy items for a lending library, etc. and still be able to honor both the researchers and the copyright laws.
-
[ 09. July 2008, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Nessa1815: But I can't burn copies to send out because that's piracy right? I can't afford 40 bucks a pop to send to these idiots. But I really want them to see this.
Is there anything I can do?
Man, I don't know if it's the brain fog or what here, but if you look at the quote, it is in the FORM OF QUESTION, HENCE ME SAYING "THAT'S PIRACY, RIGHT?" I was asking for advice. I was asking a dang question.
IT WAS A QUESTION.
-------------------- "~*~My smile hides my bite~*~." Posts: 506 | From N/A | Registered: Jun 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Q: "That would be piracy, right ?"
Yes. Piracy is just one word for it. It would be a felony and is against the federal copyright law. Infringement holds serious consequences.
Q: "What can you do ?"
You can pass the word by:
* sending the link of the film's trailer and ask the doctor to consider purchasing the film;
* loaning out your own DVD for a few days (with a prepaid return mailer), etc.;
* asking the health education center at medical centers to purchase this, etc. They may very well order a copy at your request and you can ask the doctor to put his loan-order in for when it arrives. You could also ask public libraries.
-
[ 09. July 2008, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I understand the desire to give it to everyone from doctors who were jerks, to doctors who might listen and learn, to people who need to know, people in charge, etc. The list goes on and on but unfortunately not my bank account.
I'm going to buy a couple of copies for the local library and let as many people know as possible about the CD and upcoming film screenings.
Posts: 984 | From San Diego | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
Give it up Keebler. Tired of you...you want to argue and I just wanted to help. I'm not dumb, I'm aware of copyright laws. Before I got sick, I ran my own business, so I'm quite aware of all patents, copyright laws, etc.
And yes, I bought Manila Envelopes today to fill with info for all the docs that screwed me.
Guess what I'm not as stupid as you might think, you CAN send anonymous letters/envelopes to people. OOOPS. Maybe I'm smart! Everyone should see this video and I don't really think inviting doctors to come see it at some screening would really work, do you? I didn't think so.
I've donated money, time, and energy to the cause. If Andy wants to make a difference for the cause, well, maybe we should mass produce them and get the word out. I praise him for his work but the word has to get out. 40 bucks a pop isn't gonna get the word out.
Recover your costs, make some profit, then make a difference. Because all of you have said, this movie is mostly known in the Lymie community.
That's my thoughts. I didn't say I was or wasn't going to do it. I'm sure many of you have downloaded songs illegally. Maybe you're too perfect though, or so you'd like to think.
Delete this thread if you want, but I'm not. See ya.
And since I'm probably done with this board anyway, delete it.
I might be sick but I still have fire in me. Don't pick at me. I'm not in the mood.
-------------------- "~*~My smile hides my bite~*~." Posts: 506 | From N/A | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
From the back of the Under Our Skin DVD jacket:
Copyright2008 Open Eye Pictures, Inc. Duplication damages our ability to continue our mission and is prohibited by law. Please contact us concerning public performance rights and education screenings: [email protected]
The website says the copies available for purchase now are "vanilla versions" or "preview versions" of the DVD. "Loaded versions" with extra features, chapters, study guide, etc., will be available later once they have secured broadcast and/or theatrical distribution.
Maybe you can contact them and ask if they would consider selling any leftover "vanilla versions" at a discount once they come out with the "loaded versions."
The website is also offering for Institutional Sales purchases to replace free of charge preview versions with loaded versions when they are available.
"INSTITUTIONAL SALES Colleges, universities, and hospitals. Includes public performance rights. For these educational sales, "vanilla version" will be replaced free of charge with "loaded version" upon its release."
I don't know whether this is considered standard practice in the movie industry or not. I think it's a rather generous gesture on the part of Open Eye Pictures for the "cause" as you call it, Nessa.
Posts: 503 | From Maryland | Registered: Oct 2007
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There is an individual and group license. With the group licence you could say show it at your local town or library as long as you did not charge for it. Could also put this at your local library when done watching it.
-------------------- Positive 10 bands WB IGG & IGM + Babesia + Bartonolla and NOW RMSF 3/5/09 all at Quest
posted
You cannot burn copies of the DVD---there is an encryption or some type of code in the DVD that doesn't allow it to happen. At the NYC/Turn the Corner screening of the film, Andy got on stage and asked that people PLEASE do not Burn copies of his work, he also said the DVD's would not be able to be copied...
Posts: 371 | From CT | Registered: Jun 2008
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I turn to you guys for support. I don't even think that my husband (who makes fun of this board and all of you - who I ALWAYS STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR) understands what we go through.
My husband calls us "boohoo-ers". The only reason he's taking money out of his 401k to get me better is so that I'll be well enough to go see his ROTTEN MEAN PARENTS.
He's like, "Hurry up and get better! Are you clinging to this so you don't have to go over there" His parents have ruined his daughter, my marriage, but that's not really Lyme related, so I'll stfu.
I will not apologize because I still believe in what I said. It was a question, a genuine one, a sweet one, for a cause.
Unfortunately some people are computer savvy and know how to burn dvds, even encripted ones. Everyone in my family knows how but we will say for now that we "got permission from the owner".
Encription doesn't stop anyone.
I actually used to think you all were clinging to your illness, somehow (understandably so) you BECAME your illness.
But now, I do have respect and understand what you are going through because I am now, one of you. Desperate for an answer, desperate for the truth to come out. Just plain desperate for MANY REASONS.
I've got a flood of PMs of people who KNEW EXACTLY WHAT I MEANT WHEN I ASKED AND THEY KNEW IT WAS GENUINE. Like one person PMed me and said, "This board gets way too political."
I'm afraid I agree. You have this semi newbie who joins (or tries to join) your little club, takes every word you say so seriously, ears perked forward, absorbing everything you say, like it is all facts.
I just wanna spread the word and it turns into this. But wait, I am a fiery girl, I will argue stuff into the ground, and I'm known for beating a dead horse. So, here it is. It's squashed.
Thank you!
-------------------- "~*~My smile hides my bite~*~." Posts: 506 | From N/A | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
I don't think the post needs to be deleted.
First, discussion of the copyright rights of Open Eye Pictures is important and a good reminder that none of us should copy this no matter how good the cause.
Second, how we educate our doctors is critical. Discussion of that is healthy too.
Finally, please everyone, don't take these things so personally. We are all trying to get better and educate our community.
From what I have seen everyone in this discussion has had very good and supportive information to offer the lymenet community.
Thank you all for all your support and hard work.
Posts: 524 | From Hudson Valley, NY | Registered: Jul 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
I know exactly where you're coming from Nessa.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
In further posts beyond the first one, yes, clearly, there is the repeated stated intent to make illegal copies
[Quote]: "People shouldn't have to PAY FOR THE TRUTH. You guys figure it out." [End Quote.]
There have been no words to confirm that the intent has changed.
This is not personal, not even political.
This is a matter of copyright law and protection of the rights of the film makers. No more; no less.
Questions were asked. Answers were deflected.
Intent still seems clear and taunting:
[Quote] " . . . some people are computer savvy and know how to burn dvds, even encripted ones. Everyone in my family knows how but we will say for now that we "got permission from the owner".
Encription doesn't stop anyone. " [End quote]
-
[ 10. July 2008, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
--
The intent to illegally make multiple copies of the DVD has been clearly stated several times.
The suggestion to delete the post is to keep LymeNet, itself, legal.
-
Lymenet's own policy in the Terms of Use, Section 4, states:
4. Users shall not post or transmit through the LymeNet System any material which violates or infringes in any way upon the rights of others, which is unlawful,
. . . which encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability or otherwise violate any law . . . ."
posted
I asked a question for a cause. Period. I never ever said I was going to burn copies illegally.
Get off my case KEEBLER, I'm tired of your crap.
Fanatic. Find something else to do. Go cure your Lyme or something. I said it was SQUASHED. Leave it at that. If you wanna argue, and trust me, you don't want to argue with me because I'll debate you into the ground. I'm smart, honey.
I stated that many people have been helpful and I appreciated that. I've gotten more bad than good out of this site. But if this crap is going to keep going on. I'm outtie. There's other sites out there, you know?
PM me, even call me, I'll give you my number if you wanna continue this conversation. I'm not going to contaminate this board with this BS.
It started with a simple question. More like, "How can I help?" I NEVER SAID I WAS GOING TO DO ANYTHING ILLEGAL. But guess what my sweets, I get private messages too....and some are already doing it. I bet that really gets your goat doesn't it.
Lay in bed and think about that at night, if your insomnia doesn't get you first.
But me, I'm not making copies of anything. I just wanted to know if we were allowed to spread the message to ignorant doctors....YOU KNOW? THE ONES YOU GUYS COMPLAIN ABOUT ALL OF THE TIME?
Hypocrites.
This board doesn't need this crap, we already have enough financial hardships, relationships strained, AND PAIN....oh wait, and a supposedly mysterious illness with no guaranteed cure. Concentrate on that, instead of me.
Like I said, PM me if you want to continue this bs, because I'll tango with you all day if you want. But not at the expense of others on this board.
It's so funny how I can ask a simple question about something Lyme related, symptoms, insurance questions, etc....and I get replies "search for it, it's already been talked about on here before"...but the minute that I ask a genuine question for a cause....WOW I GET OVER 30 REPLIES.
Sometimes I think you guys like this. Get over it.
I got my copy of Under our Skin today. And I'm going to watch it right now. BYE!
Edited to say: I didn't SAY THAT I WAS GOING TO TO BURN OR HAVE FRIENDS/FAMILY MEMBERS BURN ANYTHING BUT DON'T BE SO NAIVE TO THINK THAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO STUFF LIKE THAT. *SOME* PEOPLE *ARE* SMART.
-------------------- "~*~My smile hides my bite~*~." Posts: 506 | From N/A | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
On the issue of buying DVDs, realize that every penny we earn is going into: --hiring a publicist, so we can get a TV broadcaster to air it --publicity, so we can find a distributor for nationwide theatrical release (It costs $50,000 alone to convert our digital media to a 35 mm film print that can run in big theaters.) --posters, DVD extras, press kits, a study guide for universities --qualifying for awards, submitting to festivals, traveling to festivals (more publicity) --retooling our website so we can handle the traffic that will hit us when it runs on TV. and on, and on.
Plus, Open Eye is a non-profit, and most of us on the Open Eye team have worked **for years** for nothing, or almost nothing, because it's a cause we feel so passionate about.
In the meantime, we are discussing strategies on how to reduce the costs to Lyme patients as soon as possible. Getting a big distributor who can duplicate inexpensively will significantly reduce the DVD costs.
So please be patient as we continue to keep our eye on the prize -- getting a TV broadcast that will reach millions. When you buy a copy of the DVD, know that that cash is going towards making this happen.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Kris,
Thanks for your gentle reminder of the importance of the film's success (that we all hope happens). In the meantime, I hope you all can make the rent and have a few healthy meals to keep yourselves going.
The very best of luck to you and all the film crew who have given up so much to help the rest of us get our lives back.
posted
I understood perfectly what the first post was stating.
She didn't say she was GOING to copy them, she said she wished she could copy them but that it would be piracy, wouldn't it????
Years ago, many very smart people left this site for just this type of reason. They were very smart people, people who just wanted to help others that didn't know much about this horrid disease.
They knew lots and they shared their knowledge. Those of you that have been here for years know exactly who I am talking about and those people are missed here.
The Newer people that have joined in the past year or two don't know about the history of this site and how this has happened before.
Please before you attack, READ what the poster is saying before you jump on that band wagon. Sometimes if you go back and read it again, it doesn't say what you thought it said.
Keebler and Fizzy, and maybe a few others, I am sorry to say you are some of the ones that might want to go back and read the original post again...........She didn't say she was going to copy anything.
No one did anything wrong, no one said anything to offend anyone until Nessa was attacked.
Delete the whole thread just because someone happened to misunderstand a post and the poster stood up for herself?????
Now that is just ridicules. There really are some good points here once you wade through all the defensive BS.
Just my two cents, no one probably even wants to hear.
HUGS,
-------------------- ICEY Posts: 468 | From Las Vegas NV | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I understood what Nessa was saying in her first post..
I just hope that Nessa will stick around here and not leave for good
Lets stick together
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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-------------------- worrying about tomorrow takes its strength away from today Posts: 970 | From Point PLeasant , NJ | Registered: Jan 2008
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
OK, new idea here. A constructive one, I believe:
- on camera interviews with subject matter experts; e.g. authors, scientists, doctors
- produce an educational film for a national audience
- GIVE the film away. Encourage the duplication of the DVD!
Sound like a plan!? I am working on it...
PS: Isn't this an "activism" topic?
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
I recommend that all of you take your digital cameras and do a self-interview of your situation, diagnosis, misdiagnosis, finances, family problems, symptoms -- and then upload it via myspace or some other resource.
A DVD organized by us, with our stories, as well as news videos, interviews with LLMD's (Many have done news stories on TV), would provide a free way to educate openly.
Hope someone else takes this idea and decides to run with it. Most of us have the free time to do these things. I've collected plenty of
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
I do youtube video logs all the time about my struggle with this f*&^%$ disease.
I think it is a cool idea though!!!
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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