posted
does anyone know the reason why you should not drink alcohol?
Is it because of the abx or because of the lyme.
I currently am taking doxy, but really want to have one cocktail.
Is that so bad?
Posts: 35 | From MN | Registered: Jun 2008
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feelfit
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12770
posted
I have an occassional glass of wine. Doctor says it won't hurt. I don't think that you want to do anything in excess though.
Alch. is toxic and so are our bodies when fighting lyme.
feelfit
Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Some abx do not mix with alcohol. Personally, I don't think ANY medicines mix with alcohol. It changes everything into a different chemical reaction.
FLAGYL and alcohol can cause some very serious reactions. So, even a dose of 30 drops of an herbal tincture preserved in alcohol can be contraindicated while on flagyl or its generic.
Dr. B states that one of the major reasons for treatment failure is the use of alcohol (and the lack of good rest).
Alcohol is very toxic to the liver and it can waste a critical window of opportunity for someone who is treating a new case of lyme.
For those who have been at this for a while, perhaps one tiny drink very six months may be a set back some will figure in and manage.
But if you have a fresh case and you are trying to treat this incredibly difficult infection, you need the best chance you can get. EVERYTHING that goes into your body matters. Even one drink can create a chance for the lyme to take hold.
Think of soaking your hand in an alcoholic drink for about six hours. I bet the skin it would itch and become irritated. And that is just a fraction of what it does inside of us when we are already in a weakened state.
As an alternative, get your friends to learn to give shoulder and foot rubs and everyone will fell loopy - other fancy drinks that are healthy can be a substitute if you have a special occasion out and want to feel special.
Good luck. It's not easy to be perfect and none of us are - but we all want to be better and that's what you hold onto. The feeling of health is FAR better than the feeling any alcohol could possibly provide.
Take care now.
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[ 11. July 2008, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Does anyone know why lyme causes such an intolerance to alcohol in general. One drink seems like 10...I don't even WANT to drink alcohol anymore. Can your liver just not function properly to break it down anymore or what?
This was one of my symptoms before diagnosis. When Dr. C read this in my "timeline" he said he would have immediately suspected a tick borne infection just based on that alone.
posted
I was like you, I wanted to drink and it didn't seem like a big deal. I liked to have a beer with dinner. I was dx with lyme and on oral abx but I just timed them to not be together.
But then one day it HIT me. I was at a fundraiser for a political event. I had ONE drink (vodka) and I was hammered. I couldn't drive home and I had to ask a judge's spouse to drive me-- what an embarrassment.
I tried again a few weeks later and had a beer with dinner. Half way through my head was on the table and I had to go to bed.
Now, I'm afraid to drink because it will probably wipe me out. That could happen to you at any time, and believe me, that's stressful.
I also agree that it probably interferes with healing. It's just another thing that you've got to process. I wouldn't stress about this one, but you should try to taper off to none.
Posts: 524 | From Hudson Valley, NY | Registered: Jul 2007
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groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304
posted
Hi stefanie
Booze is a No No -
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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cactus
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7347
posted
Alcohol is out when anyone is taking abx, because it often lowers the effectiveness.
In the case of doxy, drinking while taking it can cause the liver to break down the doxy faster than usual. That can lower your blood level of doxy, and lessen its effectiveness.
Check out drugdigest.com's "check interactions" feature - it will give you any drug interactions, and also list any potential food/drink interactions. Alcohol interactions often come up.
My LLMD even insisted that I say "no thank you" to my best friend's famous rum balls... That's okay, when this is all over, I will be digging my toes into the sand somewhere with an umbrellie drink in hand!
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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Lauralyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Well put Keebler Bravo
-------------------- Fall down seven times, get up eight ~Japanese proverb Posts: 1146 | From west coast | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Any form of alcohol kills me. Even a sip on a teaspoon will give me facial flushing, heavy breathing, swollen throat, headache, sweats and just a really bad feeling.
I also have a very high biotoxin count in my body due to molds, lyme and probably other stuff.
When the body gets an overload of these toxins, we develop multiple chemical sensitivities.
One other thing ~ ABSOLUTELY NO ALCOHOL (EVEN AVOID COUGH SYRUPS AND MOUTH WASH) WHILE ON FLAGYL AS IT WILL CAUSE AN ANTIBUSE EFFECT.
Posts: 261 | From NW Pa ~ Crawford County | Registered: Oct 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Alcohol also raises the level of excess porphryins in our body, an effect of the stressed liver detox pathway, Cytochrome P-450. In excess, porphyrins kill cells - especially nerve cells.
more information: www.cpnhelp.org/secondaryporphyria - for how excess porphryins are involved in an antibiotic treatment protocol for Cpn, a protocol that mirrors that for lyme/TBD.
Regarding the liver's capacity to detoxify certain chemicals through the Cytochrome P-450 pathway. If certain enzymes are deficient, excess porphyrins can cause neurological problems.
(That is just one reason for avoiding toxins, adding liver support and attention to endotoxin / neurotoxin prevention and clearance - on a continual basis.)
There are at least 11 types of genetic porphryias, some differences in each type.
However, secondary porphyria can also be present at times - in ANYONE - if the liver is overloaded as with certain toxic infections or with someone taking many medicines.
This can be hereditary or acquired through chemical overload or infection overload.
Classic symtoms can be found at the links below and often will involve sun damage from even a little sun or severe pain and cramping of the lower GI tract.
But, sink or GI symptoms may be absent and other symptoms, more neurologocial or psychological in nature, may be more pronounced, depending upon which specific enzymes and type of porphyria is involved.
In all types of porphyria, certain classifications of drugs are safe while others can be dangerous. Caution is to be advised when mixing drugs. Diet, too, is of utmost importance.
If a person has ever had any relative to show extreme reactions to drugs, especially in an E.R. setting, questioning the entire family may help save lives.
Undiagnosed porphyria can be fatal as, usually, there are never any signs until a certain chemical load has stressed the liver. This could well be a connection with so many hospital drug fatalities.
And - this could be why many patients with chronic infections have such a quick and serious reaction to such a little amount of alcohol. We happen to have an early warning system that our livers are doing the best they can and they just can't handle the effects of alcohol.
Of course, as to why patients with CFS and lyme are severely alcohol intolerant, there may be other connections, too.
Still, whatever the reasons, it's actually a good thing that our bodies are sending us a helpful message.
BTW, a little organic carrot juice can be a very good thing to lower porphyrins. Greens powders, too, contain beta carotene.
In acute attacks, emergency medical care may be life-saving.
==
[ 12. July 2008, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Even for lymies who are not on abx doesn't alcohol and the sugar it contains feed the spirochetes and the disease? If we know it feeds Lyme disease who knows what it does to feed coinfections?
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FreakShow
Unregistered
posted
once you have lyme, life is basically over. from what I read on here. wow, i am so upset when I come on here. I just want to not read any of this anymore... this sucks.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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FreakShow -
Okay, yeah, it can sure feel that way. Believe me, those of us who have dealth with this for a while do not offer advice to make it harder. We offer it to save others time and pain.
Honestly, a few times each day I am faced with how close to toast I am. Still . . . my mind reaches out to what else I can do - or what else I can stop doing that will help.
Knowledge is power. Always. With knowledge, you know how to proceed - what you are facing - etc.
Life is not over - although, I admit it can be drastically altered. Life as we thought we deserved according to what - TV, movies, magazines - well, that has been turned on its head for sure.
Even the simplest life is very hard with lyme, too. But, each day we can still enjoy family and friends, music, many flavors of foods and other simple joys. With treatment (we hope) and good self-care people can and do get better. With knowledge, we learn HOW to get better.
Even those who struggle without treatment or doing what treatment they can . . . we all have a chance. And there is more to learn. More to be discovered.
However, I've sure had to change my idea of the life I thought I was promised. I've had to get down to the basics. Had I been a cave-lady, I would be nourishing my body with foods from the earth (or from a fire that a cute cave man would, of course, make for me).
I get it easier, though, in that I have a fridge. Today, a very basic approach to nutrition can actually save a ton of money, simplify choices and help the environment - and strengthen health.
Rather than being forced into a healthy way of eating, I see it now as a privilege - especially when I watch the world news each night. In addition to knowledge, I constantly call upon perspective to help me trudge on. It helps.
Yeah, it still is very rough most of the time, but I feel more connected to what my body needs and more connected to the earth. My life has changed but it's not over. And - oh - it's best to limit that quest for knowledge to a set amount for science, some for nutrition, some for enjoyment and whatever movement feels healthy.
I look at reading about lyme as learning science. if learning about all this is too sad, just pick one good book (say, Singleton's "The Lyme Disease Solution" - key word: solution) . . . I look upon symptoms as "oh, that's interesting . . ."
Don't come here if it makes you feel worse. Really. There are plenty of ways to learn what you need to know. Once you have your treatment plan and know how to proceed, find what gives you nourishment. If you can, keep contact with some friends and music and whatever brings you joy. Some stuff may change, but true friendship can still grow.
If our need to rest far exceeds our desire to be out and about, realize that our bodies, our brains, are working against all odds and growing new tissue. It takes a lot to repair a whole body and rest speeds that along.
I hope it gets better for you soon. And, somehow, I hope you can enjoy a few things along the way.
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[ 01. August 2008, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
when i was really sick with the brain involvement, half a glass of wine and i felt horrible for three days. i didn't have any alchohol for about two years... and i'm an irish girl
my son is an older teen with bad brain stuff now, and has used alchohol in attempts to self medicate, or when with peers who take alchohol. he is at a point now with his tbi's where one drink is like ten. i wouldn't wish this problem on anyone.
it's not just physical and immune health related - it can bring on a very dangerous acute state in some patients. alchohol is dangerous with neuro-lyme because the reaction can be immediate stupor, belligerance, extreme mood swings, complete disinhibition, explosive sadness or anger, panic attack, and more.
be very cautious, at times it can be like pouring gasoline on a fire.
mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Beer, wine, and champagne contain living yeast cells. If you are on abx that yeast can really throw off your intestines. Alcohol in general is converted to sugar by our bodies, which is another reason not to drink. Plus it has lots of calories. Before I was diagnosed I had the worst hangover of my life from just 2 beers. If I did not know better I would have sworn somebody drugged me. We had to call a doctor, because I could not stop throwing up. Not an experience I wish to relive. EVER.
Posts: 210 | From VA | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Stefanie: [QB] So even when i am off my doxy, I shouldn't drink?
Right. And 200mg of doxy will NOT get you well. Are you seeing an LLMD?
Yeast is a huge issue and you will eventually succumb to it, especially if you drink alcohol.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
I just don't think it is good for you if you have LD. I tried to drink a couple of times, but ever since I became ill half a drink feels like 2 drinks.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Alcohol intolerance occurred to me THE SAME DAY I STARTED MY ANTIBIOTICS. Hasn't let up since.
I'd say that since ethanol causes mild encephalopathy: dizziness, nausea, head-ache etc. are expected.
When you have spirochetes "swimming" thru your brain and causing encephalopathy as it is...alcohol probably acts synergistically w/ the lyme inflammation. Making drinking virtually impossible and hang-overs, a death sentence. Plus all that other stuff that contributes to lyme patients feeling like crap.
I know its NOT AN INTERACTION BETWEEN ANTIBIOTICS AND ALCOHOL. I've gone off abx for 5 months, and I didn't come close to being able to drink again.-In fact, I'm very tired of hearing Dr's etc...tell me that my intolerance to alcohol has nothing to do w/ my disease...and that I should simply quit drinking and forget about why!-NO THANKS! I've also had my wife, and family members try my abx regimen for a while to see if they had any BAD EFFECTS. I wasn't surprised to find that ALL MY "TEST SUBJECTS" HAD NO SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS FROM MY ANTI-BIOTIC REGIMEN (Rifampin-900mg, Zithromax-1,000mg, Omnicef-900mg/day).They had no trouble drinking on the abx...just turned their urine dark.--So why was alcohol making me so very sick?-Don't tell me it's the anti-biotics!
The day I can drink again, is the day that I will consider myself recovered.
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Some responses seem to advocate no, low carbs, low calories in general. Why?
Sure all bacteria survive on nutrientsfloating in the body's interstitium...but you would have to severely starve the host of nutrients and calories before the bacteria would even be slightly affected by the "hunger-strike".
I've found that a well balanced diet of at least 2,000-2,500 calories a day is about perfect. any less is detremental to the body.
Anabolism is not a disadvantage to the lyme patient. In fact, Testosterone injections are often given not only for it's encouragement for anabolism and therefore an increase in appetite; but for stimulation of immunity and other favorable changes.
Regular exercise is also beneficial in almost every respect.
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
I asked for testosterone supplementation.
My LLMD said that my testosterone was in the normal range so that I shouldnt supplement.
Doesnt help hearing that when i have a low to non existant sex drive. Even for someone approaching 30.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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Lymeorsomething
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16359
posted
Yeah, the booze is not a good idea when there's a chronic condition present. But I really do miss my Guinness :/
LymeHerx...watch hormonal supplementation as the right Lyme treatment should, in theory, restore normal HPA axis function.
Hormone replacement can make matters worse if used in the wrong candidates...
You can always try some herbals for libido...reduced libido is a Lyme symptom...plus fatigue in general will reduce libido...
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
ok, now you guys have me thinking. i am here to learn for my dtr who has lyme and although often irritable tired at the end of the day and headaches. i often attribute to being a mom, working full time, running the house blah blah blah.
but i have notice over the past year if i have a drink or two i feel like i have had double that amount.
hmmm...a light bulb just went off.
Posts: 26 | From verona, nj | Registered: Jun 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Also, for those who have systemic candida, they are already drunk on the byproducts of that fermenting in the gut, so to speak.
it wasn't until i was symptom free and off ab's that i could drink wine without feeling like i'd had a lobotomy. jokingly you could say it's sort of a marker as to when you are getting better.
mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I have always had a ridiculous tolerance (as in can't hardly EVER get drunk) since getting lyme and the coinfections... anyone else have that? Always best not to drink, especially when taking ABX. why bother taking the meds if you are going to counteract their assistance by preoccupying your body and liver with alcohol? That being said... I have one here and there myself, but will have no one else to blame, of course, if the healing process takes forever!
Posts: 52 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Lauralyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15021
posted
James Do you have an intolerance for sugar? Just curious
I suffer evil reactions from sugar...please tell me it's not forever
-------------------- Fall down seven times, get up eight ~Japanese proverb Posts: 1146 | From west coast | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
One drink NEVER has felt like more than One.
It just makes me sick as a dog. I feel no drunkeness...only ill. I cant even finish one drink, so how could I possibly feel like I had several drinks?
I think people may be mistaking sickness w/ drunkeness.
If it were true...I'd still like drinking!
I'd have one or two drinks, and get wasted! That would be great! But of coarse thats not what happens. There is NO good feeling about drinking while infected w/ Bb.
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
Well its not the drunkedness perse, its the hangover ill feeling.
So yes I do think we are talking about the same thing.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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