posted
i have read here that taking steroids alone to help control lyme inflammation/symptoms is VERY bad, but that combining steroids with ABX treatment may be a safe way to go.
Can i get your feedback on this? has anyone tried this?
Posts: 52 | From Atlanta, Ga | Registered: Jun 2007
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Steroids can make the infection party big-time. Not a good thing. Even steroid shots and creams should be avoided.
The combination of abx with steroids would be ONLY FOR URGENT CARE. It's still not the best thing in the world but it can save a life or any eye - or lungs - with TEMPORARY use in an emergency.
The only thing that will ultimately control the inflammation is treatment for the infections AND good support of your liver - along with good self-care measures.
There may be supportive help from turmeric (curcumin is best), etc. But, it's best to have a doctor work out the plan around the meds.
You can read all about integrated treatment options in some of the books such as "The Lyme Disease Solution" by Kenneth Singleton, MD - it's at amazon.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Regarding using prednisone, many of us have seen disaster from that due to its use before we knew we had lyme. Here is some information about that. You can do a search here of previous threads with the key words "prednisone" or "steroids"
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In 2000 Dr. B's Lyme treatment guide said
"More evidence has accumulated indicating the severe detrimental effects of immunosuppressants including steroids in the patient with active B. burgdorferi infection.
Never give steroids to any patient who may even remotely be suffering from Lyme, or serious, permanent damage may result, especially if given for anything greater than a short course."
B's 2005 Lyme guide says "The severity of the clinical illness is directly proportional to the spirochete load, the duration of infection, and the presence of co-infections.
These factors also are proportional to the intensity and duration of treatment needed for recovery.
More severe illness also results from other causes of weakened defenses, such as from severe stress, immunosuppressant medications, and severe intercurrent illnesses.
This is why steroids and other immunosuppressive medications are absolutely contraindicated in Lyme. This also includes intra-articular steroids.
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The 2005 Guide's LYME BORRELIOSIS heading says,
"More evidence has accumulated indicating the severe detrimental effects of the concurrent use of immunosuppressants including steroids in the patient with active B. burgdorferi infection.
Never give steroids or any other immunosuppressant to any patient who may even remotely be suffering from Lyme, or serious, permanent damage may result, especially if given for anything greater than a short course.
If immunosuppressive therapy is absolutely necessary, then potent antibiotic treatment should begin potent antibiotic treatment should begin at least 48 hours prior to the immunosuppressants.
"Steroid Disaster" is a term coined by the pioneer of Lyme Treatment, Dr. Burrascano (see link at bottom of page).
Corticosteroids are immune suppressants, the last thing a Lyme patient needs is to lower immunity.
Can you imagine, your body trying hard to fight off the spirochete bacteria and suddenly and immunosuppressants is introduced, "freezing" your immune system, rendering it unable to battle, giving great advantage now to the Lyme bacteria to spread and go wherever it wants .
Corticosteroids can last in the body for months, usually around 6 months. In many bacterial infections such as LD, damage can be done.
Many Lyme patients (such as myself) triggered LD with cortisone shots, pills, inhalers, etc. I can tell you, it is a nightmare I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
It is imperative to NEVER take corticosteroid for pain if you know you have a bacterial infection.
Some bacterial infections are so severe that a shot of cortisone could kill you, although that would be unlikely with Lyme, but rule of thumb, bacterial infections and immunosuppressants do not mix!
. . .
Dr. Burrascano makes it clear in his treatment guidelines that steroid treatment is detrimental, these are excerpts from his guidelines:
"More evidence has accumulated indicating the severe detrimental effects of the concurrent use of immunosuppressants including steroids in the patient with active B. burgdorferi infection.
Never give steroids or any other immunosuppressant to any patient who may even remotely be suffering from Lyme, or serious, permanent damage may result, especially if given for anything greater than a short course.
If immunosuppressive therapy is absolutely necessary, then potent antibiotic treatment should begin at least 48 hours prior to the immunosuppressants.
The severity of the clinical illness is directly proportional to the spirochete load, the duration of infection, and the presence of co-infections. These factors also are proportional to the intensity and duration of treatment needed for recovery.
More severe illness also results from other causes of weakened defenses, such as from severe stress, immunosuppressants medications, and severe intercurrent illnesses.
This is why steroids and other immunosuppressants medications are absolutely contraindicated in Lyme. This also includes intra-articular steroids."
An easy explanation. Your immune system are the "soldiers" of your body constantly standing by to attack any foreign invader.
When an immunosuppressant is used, it is like killing off or knocking out most of your "soldiers", now your body is open to all foreign invasion and while your immune system is knocked out, those invaders can go anywhere, your heart, liver, brain - everywhere.
From: Lyme Disease 1991: Patient/Physician Perspectives from the U.S. and Canada - Lora Mermin, editor
by John Drulle, M.
"Corticosteroids, or steroids as they are commonly called, are very important drugs in a wide variety of medical conditions. They exert an anti-inflammatory effect and suppress the immune system.
This may be life saving in some diseases such as asthma and malignancies.
On the other hand, steroids are rarely curative, and are associated with harmful side effects if used for prolonged periods of time.
These include bone loss, cataracts, sodium retention, weight gain, abnormal fat distribution and predisposition in other infections.
"The use of steroids in infectious diseases has always been controversial. It is well known that steroids can reactivate dormant tuberculosis infections.
Recent studies have shown that in meningitis infections steroids may decrease the incidence of post infectious complications. However, in cases of septic shock, their ability to improve survival rates is dubious.
We have been traditionaly taught that in bacterial infections an intact, well-functioning immune system is necessary in order to recover. Steroids in the face of bacterial infections may alter the prognosis and in tuberculosis may actually increase the risk of fatality.
"Since Lyme is a bacterial infection, the question naturally arises as to what is the role of steroids in Lyme disease. Before the bacterial nature of Lyme was discovered, it was common to treat the arthritis complications and heart blocks with steroids. Early reports suggested that the heart blocks responded well to the steroids.
However, in one report dealing with patients with Lyme arthritis, steroid injections into the joints prior to antibiotic therapy were associated with a worse prognosis when antibiotics were finally given.
We have seen literally dozens of patients with Lyme who were initially treated with steroids who reported a dramatic worsening rather than improvement as would be expected. Dr. Joseph Burrascano has coined the expression, ' Steroid Disasters, ' to describe these patients.
"It is interesting to note that in dogs who had Lyme disease, injections of dexamethasone, a corticosteroid, enabled Borrelia burgdorferi to be cultured from blood drawn on the following day. This was done by Dr. Elizabeth Burgess at the University of Wisconsin.
This suggests that the steroid suppresses a mechanism for keeping the bacteria out of the circulatory system, since ordinarily it is difficult to grow the Lyme organism from the blood.
Entrance of the bacteria into the bloodstream can allow seeding of other organs.
"I have used steroids in Lyme patients, but only in very selected circumstances.
In patients who have presented with eye involvement with rapidly deteriorating vision, such as optic neuritis or uveitis, the combination of high dose steroids appears to restore vision more rapidly than by using antibiotics alone.
I have also used steroids in combination with antibiotics in patients who presented with a Lyme induced polymyalgia rheumatica (PMR). "PMR is a common disease of elderly people characterized by pain and stiffness in the muscles of the upper arms and legs, fevers, malaise and weight loss. The ESR, sedimentation rate is elevated.
In its classic form, the cause of the condition is unknown, and the dramatic response to steroids is in itself diagnostic.
I have personally seen three cases of Lyme induced PMR, which did not respond to steroids alone or antibiotics alone, yet when the combination was given the response was dramatic.
"In conclusion, the decision to use the steroids in a Lyme patient must be given considerable thought and the possible benefits must be weighed against the risks.
I would not use steroids unless the patient was also on antibiotics."
posted
My husband had to take a short course of steroids due to significant inflammation after his PICC was placed.
Our LLMD said that a short course to address a big problem like his swelling (he could barely fit his arm through his short sleeve shirts) is appropriate.
However, he recommends against long term steroids due to the immune suppression. This does not include low dose Cortef to address adrenal insufficiency.
Posts: 168 | From Delaware | Registered: Aug 2005
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Of course, I had my reservations about taking them too, especially after everything I've read about them, which is mostly negative, but I have decided to take them, thus I feel I have something of reason to share with you.
It's also one of the reasons why I can't sleep very well, right now, which is a known side effect, but there are no drugs free of side effects, although I sure wish there were.
I've had an unexpected massive herxheimer reaction, which has especially inflammed the sacs around my heart and lungs, not to mention my whole body, as a different antibiotic I started taking penetrated my tissues and killed some of my lyme bacteria, albiet much more than my body could tolerate.
When I called my LLMD to make them aware of my problem and find out what I needed to do, they never once pushed me to take them, as all they did was have their nurse share with me both sides of the equation, pertaining to if I didn't take them versus if I did take them.
Considering the overwhelming severity of my symptoms and how more damage could be done, sometimes permanent, not to mention the additional days of endless suffering I'd have to endure, if I didn't take them, I opted to take them, but only after considering my entire situation.
I'm just taking a short course though, which is only 20mg of Prednisone 3 times a day.
Since I'm already taking 10mg of Hyrdocortisone 2 times a day for my hypoadrenalism, there's no need for me to taper off of them.
I'm also continuing to take an antibiotic I've been taking for awhile now, which isn't causing me very many issues, at the moment, while I'm taking them, so that gives me some peace of mind too I'm, at least, still treating some of my infections.
If you were to take them, then your dosage of and duration for taking them may be different though, especially considering the reason why you're taking them, thus how and why they're taken should always be considered on an individual basis.
This is my second day on them and I can already tell they're really helping to lessen the severity of my reaction, thus I'm very glad I chose to take them, and in my case, I don't feel like they're harming me.
I agree with what many others here have said, longterm high doses of them are definitely NEVER good for you to take, but taking SHORT burts of them, especially in emergency situations, such as what I've just experienced, certainly have their time and place.
At worst, massive herxheimer reactions can kill you and at best, they can cause you many days of endless suffering, even after you discontinue taking the antibiotic, which has caused your reaction.
I consider my LLMD one of the very best, like many others here, who they are currently helping or have already helped to get well, so that's who ultimately receives my faith and trust, above what anyone else here says.
This is a great place to share information, but none of us here are LLMDs, thus we're not qualified to tell you what to do, and opinions differ here as to whether or not to take them, just as treatment for lyme has no general consensus here, or anywhere else for that matter.
Ultimately, you have to rely on your LLMD to provide you with the best information, then make your best decision from there, whether it's about taking them or treating your lyme.
Just don't choose to endanger your life from being filled with so much fear about taking them, as if you take them for the right reason, but ONLY for the right reason, as they should NEVER be used liberally, then you should be okay.
With that being said, I'm not telling you what to do or not to do, I'm just sharing my experience with you, as something for you to think about, in hopes of alleviating your fears of taking them, should you really need to take them.
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Your immune system is whacked enough by lyme why add steroids they shut immune responce down not me no sir.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
holy cow, that is what happened to me. I was bitten in 1999, was treated for 3 weeks, and had no symptoms for many years. Until 2004, I herniated my disc . then, 2 shots of steroids in my back. then, a year later, stiff neck, tingling in shoulders, I felt like I was dying. This lasted for 2 months. I went to a neurologist, and he did an mri on my neck and brain, says I have nothing wrong, AND he did a lyme test from lab corp, came back negative. I told him I am sure lyme is causing this, he tells me no, the test is negative and I do not have lyme. I was sure it was lyme. So what do I do, on my own, I take prednisone for 1 week (I had some ). then, my symptoms disappear. then, In 2007, I rip my meniscus in my knee, so I have surgery, and BOOOOM, lyme is horrific, it is all over me. And of course, not knowing what the hell I have, I treat with prednisone for 1 week, and I of course do not improve. SO, what a lesson I have learned. Jenin
Posts: 455 | From Maryland | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
O.K. Now I'm worried because I've been taking Armour Thyroid for my Hypothyroidism. Which I take 4 daily. She also bumped my Corteff up to 3 a day because of Adrenal Insufeciency.
Basically my body wasn't even using it's reverse T-3 while in my moldy apartment she said. Then my Adrenals just shut down ALL together. So, now my body is in Hypo. She said the dose I'm on is a very low dose.
I believe it's only like 15mg a day. She said it's such a low dose. Now I'm concerned with all the reading in this thread if I'ts a good idea.
Although I had an extreme headache for two weeks! When I saw her they gave me shot of tordol which did NOT help. Got home and took a T-3, Valuum and Cortef. As advised.I finally woke up with it feeling slightly better.
She said it was due to the fact that I was taking my Armour Thyroid and no cortef. So my thyroid was getting stuff and not the adrenals. So when I took my corteff I no longer have my headache.
Aside from the Herx reaction. OH BOY! Let's not go there at the moment.
I'm just worried now. I can't stop my thyroid med because I need it. I also am afraid if I stop the cortef I will get my dreaded headache again. I can NOT have that for two weeks again. Any suggestions? Please Posts: 109 | From San Antonio,Tx | Registered: May 2008
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