Topic: Lyme therapy via computerized electrodermal screening?
dmc
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posted
Someone sent me this - copied from a MMS message board and wondered if I heard of it. Any know something? Person who wrote post claims to be near Ontario.
"Have you ever been to see a practitioner who does Lyme therapy via computerized electrodermal screening? We work to measure where the Lyme is (organs) and then how deep into the tissue (via bio-homeopathic potencies) and then work with only what the body shows us. We can also continue to measure (keep an eye on) the remainder of the body to attempt to keep it in balance. For someone as ill as you, I would recommend appts every 2 weeks, because the body changes balance so quickly."
Posts: 2675 | From ct, usa | Registered: Jan 2004
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Keebler
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I wasted five years of my life on something very similar, along with herbs that were supposed to address the infection and make my body stronger.
The treatment days made me feel better for about an hour. It's all the treatment I could get at the time and trusted too much. The major herbs turned out to be not specific for lyme or coinfections, although the support herbs did help and I learned a lot.
Find someone who has a thorough understanding of the biochemistry of lyme, its forms and stages and all the coinfections.
I'm not saying there is not a place for alternative treatments, but the Bionic 880 is MUCH more impressive and there are a couple complementary protocols that are much more versed in knowledge of lyme than this sounds.
Testing the organs to see where it is. Well, it's not that simple. "Keep an eye on" is not enough. Lyme and TBD is very complex.
The key word they seem to like is "balance." That is a key concept in naturopathic medicine and while I am a huge fan of some of that, the ones who think this is just a "balance" issue are usually in the dark about spirochetes.
Sorry to sound so negative and, hey, if you can find out how many lyme patients have treated with this and how they fared, I could be wrong. But I'd want some assurances.
Maybe some who have used this will come to say good things.
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[edited to add: some good points below. I'd forgotten of a friend for whom this was excellent for dental work. see Lymie_in_Md 's posts below.]
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[ 18. July 2008, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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sparkle7
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I tried biofeedback for a while. My doctor was very nice & I liked him alot. It didn't seem to really help me all that much. It may be different for a child with ADHD. I think this is a different thing than computerized electrodermal screening.
Computerized electrodermal screening is more of a diagnostic tool - I believe. Biofeedback is to teach you to use your brain better.
In my opinion - the CDs by Hemi-sync or similar binaural beats (Dr. Jeffrey Thompson, etc.) work almost as good as biofeedback. They have different guided & non guided ones.
The audio CDs make it easy to meditate since they have brainwave entrainment for different brainwave states. I think it's pretty similar to biofeedback without the wires.
posted
Apparently electrodermal screening is a scam, because all the device actually measures is how hard the practitioner pushes the probe against the patient's skin. I would avoid any doctor using it.
Posts: 195 | From Manchester, CT | Registered: Jun 2008
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lpkayak
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i got tested with electrodermal screening. they said i needed a bunch of supps. a lot of stuff came up pos. i paid close to 500 and as i was leaveing-as an aside, they said-besure not to let the supps get near electric current or cell phone or wireless or tv or fridge....blah, blah, blah...if you do...the supps will be worthless...they said lots of people put their supps in their pocketbook with their cell phone and then don't know why they won't work...
i was pretty poed. i had already written the check-and they are basically saying if i have to drive by a high tension line on the way home my 500 of supps are no good.
i was exhausted from testing-worried about driving home...worried about all the bugs in my body...couldn't think'
but later i realized-what a scam. they can sell you all this stuff and then say-oh, it's your fault it doesn't work-you let a wave get to it...
god-the things i have tried to do to get well...this wasn't the stupidest-unfortunatly
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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lymie_in_md
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I'd be carefull to dismiss EDS or electro-dermal screening or EAV or Asyra (used by Dr. Cowden).
I've personally had one done I have 6 root canals. The practioner didn't know I had 6 and by the way she didn't know where they were. With EDS she was able to find everyone of them correctly and to the number. She was able to detail exactly what the manufacturer of each amalgam was correctly. She was the first to diagnose my lyme disease, conventional medicine couldn't. She was able to detail dysfunction in several organs all now corrected with the help of my Doctor. She was also able to tell me what the main infections in my body were.
Remember EKG is a biofeedback device used by conventional medicine based on the same principles as EDS. I guess we wouldn't want to tell everyone, "don't bother with EKGs".
At least provide some evidence to your assertion. Right now it looks like you assume it doesn't work but have no proof. Am I correct?
My suggestion is to find a very good practioner and have one done. Cost for me was about 250 dollars. I think they are an excellent assessment tool. In 8 months I've gone from 40% to 85%. And I hope to do better.
Read the following it backs up my personal and the medical view just to let you know I didn't assume anything:
By the way, I do appreciate the posts. Quackwatch IMHO is a source to be very careful about using. It is probable he has a special interest with the orthodoxy in medicine.
I'm also not surprised that some may have had problems with EDS it is very subjective to the practioner. In my opinion, you need to find a really good practioner to get the value hoped from its diagnostics and that takes research.
When I did EDS it was only for diagnostic use, just like the hair analysis i had done for a mineral / metals profile. My prationer only used the EDS report as a guide to my treatment plan.
The problem is scams and there are scams and there is snake oil, but there are many good treatment options as well. I'm sorry some may have had a bad experience with EDS. It's possible it wasn't EDS but the practioner wasn't skilled enough with the machine.
The tapestry of chronic lyme disease and finding a cure is extremely complex.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I agree that he is a biased source and his articles should be taken with a grain of salt. However, some of them are well researched with good citations, like the one referenced above, and I found it to be persuasive.
I think that the fact that mainstream medicine rejects chronic lyme has predisposed us toward alternative medicine. I don't think we should allow ourselves to stray from a science-based approach though. Science HAS documented chronic lyme, you can read the studies on pubmed.org where people treated with antibiotics for 28 days still had borellia. You can also read published studies documenting the effect of various antibiotics at killing it.
Once you start getting into things like homeopathy though, in my opinion you've gone too far. Homeopathic remedies have been diluted so much that it is not likely that even one molecule of the original subtance is present in the solution. It is logically impossible then that it can have any effect on your biochemistry. Don't forget that the placebo in your average clinical trial results in improvement for something like 30-50% of patients.
I suppose what I'm saying is that you don't have to completely abandon a scientific approach and a critical/skeptical viewpoint in order to treat an unpopular disease.
Posts: 195 | From Manchester, CT | Registered: Jun 2008
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lymie_in_md
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Oh I absolutely agree, science is very important, but science has its flaws. Studies with a financial bias and the like. You have to be careful with what you read. From the quackwatch article you posted, it was just one article that held the muster to Barrett's point of view.
Read the following link based on the article barret used and see its replies:
One practioner + EDS assistant -- no better then a coin flip
Another practioner + EDS assistant -- 100% accurate
My point in my response, is I got lucky and got a very good practioner. But further, EDS wasn't meant to be a allergy determination device. It was to evaluate the health of an individual based on energy meridians. That's how it was used in my case. It was an aid to my practioner that's all.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sparkle7
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There are studies that homeopathy does work & it's not the placebo effect. It has been studied on animals... pretty hard to imagine the placebo effect on a dog or cat.
I think homeopathy is based on quantum physics. That's why it can work. I haven't used it very often so I can't really say what it is about it. There are studies both pro & against.
I guess it's an individual thing like most of medicine.
I'd like to try it when I'm winding down the other treatments I'm doing - specifically, the Cowden herbs.
I don't want to do too many things at the same time.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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lpkayak
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i'm guessing the ability of the practitioner is the key
it was like that for a friend of mine with ondamed too
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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lymie_in_md
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Funk, I don't use ABX in my treatment. I'm looking for the alternative. I didn't do well with them even after a short course. A long course won't help me, and I'm sure of that. So what do you do? You try to better understand the disease more from a holistic view. Bear in mind there is no uninvasive treatment. Your out of balance and you seek to be in balance, you hope the invasive treatment tilts you to balance. And you can be in balance and still be infected.
The idea of how many people have lyme is based on how many people are sick. Not on how many people have lyme. That number maybe staggering. We know the ability to diagnose lyme is very flawed. We know the scientists who make the decisions of what is disease is hopelessly flawed. We know there science is based on their own self bias. Read the book "Cure Unknown" an excellent book on how we landed where we are.
So mainstream science may not be our best friend and maybe tainted due to interests outlined by the Antitrust suit brought out by the Conneticut Atty. General Blumenthal.
The LLMDs are using ABX to kill one of our biggest immunity assets. Our friends in our guts and throughout our bodies. It always sounded to me to be a dangerous trade off. But I extol them for the courage and desire to get people well with an arsenal they best understand.
So the holistic view is an energy view. If our our cells were educated in eradicating the organism how long do you think it would last, my guess not very. If your 185 pounds, how much do you think the total weight of the organism is. I'm guess about 1 to 2 grams. How can such a small amount totally disrupt an organism. It is about energy and its disruption.
All forms of energy give off radio frequencies. All of our cells give off these frequencies. If you can identify the frequency you can identify the organism. That is how many of the radionic devices work. They analyze all the frequencies of the body. A computer program is able to isolate specific frequencies. If you work through meridians you can identify where the frequency eminated. This is the nature of EDS. I would trust a good radionics practioner to find my lyme then a blood test. It is cheaper and I have the benefit of know where the disease is such as what organs.
Blood tests are a bit better then a needle in haystack with lyme. They say the test is 50% accurate. I suspect it is far more inaccurate then that.
I've had two western blots from Kaiser Permanente. I had all the clinical symptoms for lyme, instead they could only suspect menigitis. They tested for it and discounted it. I had the 28 day course of ABX and got verrrrry ill. Then Kaiser shrugged its shoulders and made it my problem. Don't know what it is can't help you.
So how do you compare treatments. Holistic versus LLMD, both are based on science. The one based on energy believes in quantum physics. The other believes in newtonian mechanics. The quantum physics is newer and has greater posibilities. I leave it to you to make up your own mind by doing some research on both.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Keebler
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posted
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lymie_in_md 's dental experience with this is remarkable.
I have a friend in Chicago who see a dentist who does this, too, and this post just reminded me of my friend's miraculous success. She does not have lyme, but her dental problems were really bad and this special dentist, with this technique, literally cured her of long time serious dental miseries.
So, altering my first note a bit, I guess it depends upon the strength and skills - and knowledge - of the user and then where they go from there regarding treatment.
aklnwlf
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posted
DMC,
Is this the same as the G Tech Meridian Stress Assessment? I just had one done on Thursday.
It uses a computer and you hold onto diodes?/electrodes? in each hand and it reads the meridians in your body.
Mine came back with some shocking results.
They place the homeopathic rememdies that they want you to take on a pad and your body can either take it or not.
Mine came back to where I wasn't able to detox because I came back to ill for any type of treatment at the moment.
It also read what strain of Lyme I have which I've never known.
It picked up every endocrine issue that I'm already aware of.
They didn't charge me the regular fee of $169 because they couldn't 'balance' me at all.
It cost me $25 for a 2 hour test and I did get liquid aminos/vitamins, endo support, cat's claw, echinacea, anti-stress, and trauma support.
Total cost about $160 for a month's worth of treatment.
One thing that was VERY surprising to me was that they determined that I had unresolved physical and emotional trauma from an accident I had in 2001.
Until that is resolved they basically said they couldn't help me.
So, I have an appt. with a Doc next month that will help me to 'release' the trauma. I'll let you know how it turns out.
I do know that I never had an debilitating symptoms of Lyme until my accident and I do have permanent damage to my left shoulder/upper back/neck that isn't resolved.
After my second surgery I declined the third one that my ortho doc said I need.
So if this is the same kind of test it seemed pretty convincing to me. It picked up the shoulder issue too and the vertebrae issues.
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6918 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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sparkle7
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That's pretty amazing, aklnwlf!
There's some incredible stuff out there...
I'd say it's comparable with my experiences of allopathic medicine. Some doctors are crazy & others are helpful.
It's basically the same with alternative approaches. If you find a good doctor, they can be very helpful to point you in the right direction.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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sparkle7
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More info on the topic from Lymebytes- (I'm too tired to break up the text now...)
Monday, July 7, 2008 We Need New Babesia Treatments!
I have some news for you, my dear Lyme friends. Traditional pharmaceutical and antibiotic regimens that are typically prescribed for babesia are failing to eradicate the infection in most Lyme disease sufferers.
According to Dr. Horowitz, a Lyme-literate MD who has treated over 10,000 Lyme disease patients, the current regimens need improving. That patients "are getting better" just isn't good enough. (And just how nebulous is the term "getting better", anyway?). No, we need to be seeking out solutions that will provide cures.
Why?
Well, according to Dr. Horowitz, artemisia, the wonder anti-parasitic herb, has not been curative, in most cases. He suggests that doses of 800 mg daily (which is higher than those typically prescribed for daily dosing) may be more helpful, but physicians are concerned that these doses may cause neurological side effects.
The antibiotic Mepron is too expensive, and doesn't always eradicate the organism. Dr. Horowitz suggests Malone, as a less-expensive substitute.
Enula has shown to be useful for four different types of parasites, and may therefore be another potential remedy, as may the herb cryptoleptis. Neither of these has been tested extensively in Lyme patients; however, Dr. Horowitz believes that a more beneficial (perhaps even curative?) protocol may be formulated by combining these herbs with pharmaceutical antibiotics.
Personally, I wonder if anything can kill babesia. Some believe MMS to be the babesia wonder drug, but I have taken MMS for three months (and at times, doses of 30 drops a day for three to six days around the full moon), and I still test positive for the infection. Perhaps higher, and more prolonged, doses are needed. I don't know.
What I do know is that this organism, like its counterparts borrelia and bartonella, is tenacious, virulent and difficult to eradicate, and no ingestant may be powerful enough to eliminate it, without harm being done to the body.
So what about focusing upon strategies that will instead repel the organism, and strengthen the immune system, rather than throwing anti-babesia bombs at the bug in the hopes that we can destroy it?
As I mentioned recently in a blog post, strategies found in bio-energetic medicine, such as LED (Laser Energetic Detoxification therapy), homeopathy, bioresonance, Immune Response Training, and Quantum Techniques, focus upon harnessing the body's (and the organisms')energies to empower the immune system to eradicate and repel pathogens. This approach may be more effective than trying to kill the infections with a biochemical substance, partly because energy medicine strategies tend to address infection in the entire body, thereby leaving less opportunity for any bugs to get "left behind."
What's more, energy medicine treatments are gentler than pharmaceutical or herbal antibiotics (that has been my experience, anyway), because the body is able to eliminate toxins at a pace that it can afford, and because fewer neurotoxins are generated when the organisms are "repelled" instead of directly killed by antibiotics.
I don't know. The latter is purely speculation on my part, but I'm fast learning that when it comes to Lyme disease, even the best of the best must speculate to some degree. This is the "nobody knows" disease, and we might as well get used to it!
I am encouraged by the fact that energy medicine is advancing and rapidly gaining in popularity, however. This means that new, improved strategies against babesia and other Lyme infections will continue to be developed. At the same time, as we learn more about new, effective herbal and pharmaceutical combinations, better strategies may be devised in traditional medicine, as well.
I'm not discounting Dr. Horowitz' solutions; indeed, he is a wise physician with many years of experience in treating Lyme disease patients. But even he believes that we need something better for babesia. And while that something better may be found through new herbal-antibiotic combination remedies, perhaps it's also wise to keep our minds open to the best of what is, and what will be developed, in bio-energetic and other forms of natural medicine. Posted by Connie Strasheim (aka Killabugger) at 9:35 PM
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by sparkle7: I think homeopathy is based on quantum physics. That's why it can work.
No, it has nothing to do with quantum physics theory. There are scientific explanations for how homeopathy can work even at extreme dilutions (e.g. influence on the water structure). Some experiments were done in the nineties to prove it, but it turned into a scientific riot when it became clear that fraud (or very sloppy work) was involved.
Some recent experiments show that certain drugs can have stronger effect at lower dose (inverse dose/effect relation at high dilution). This shows that some of the claims of homeopathy are not necessarily wrong. But for now most scientists prefer not to touch the subject.
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lymie_in_md
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Niek, it is probably a matter of funding. I can imagine in a world where more is better the idea of funding low dilution research would be difficult to justify.
I read somewhere where Fritz Popp could only justify his research on biophotons by saying they didn't exist.
Homeopathy is a message to our bodies delivered as a frequency of energy. How isn't that quantum physics? There is no physcical properties of the substance left, just energy frequencies.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lymie_in_md: Niek, it is probably a matter of funding. I can imagine in a world where more is better the idea of funding low dilution research would be difficult to justify.
Of course, there is a lot of outside pressure that is influencing scientific research, or keeping it away from certain areas. And some issues don't lend themselves well to scientific research (e.g. because they are different for every individual case). But ultimately the best theories usually win in science, although you sometimes have to wait very long for that to happen.
quote: I read somewhere where Fritz Popp could only justify his research on biophotons by saying they didn't exist.
for controversial science like this it is sometimes better not to explicitly mention it when you apply for research funds etc., until there is some solid proof. I think it would be more dangerous for him to suggest a link with 'biophoton therapies' because those are clearly operating outside the realm of science.
quote:Homeopathy is a message to our bodies delivered as a frequency of energy. How isn't that quantum physics?
That is not the original view used by homeopathy, they don't talk about energy or frequencies at all. Everything in the universe can be explained by quantum physics, but usually it is not the easiest way to explain things ...
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lymie_in_md
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Niek, Is it possible that homeopathy is the creation of subtle frequencies of dark matter? I don't know why dark matter entered my mind. It just seem to make sense based on you reply.
When it is said like cures like a more accurate view would be the negative like inactivates the like in time and space.
It occurred to me, the race to find dark matter, might be more efficaciously described by using homeopathy as the vehicle. Especially if you want to find dark matter particles.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sparkle7
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I'm not a scientist so my understanding is limited. Originally, homeopathics came about as "use like for like" for healing. It later developed into a basis for vaccines.
Quantum theory seems to explain the way homeopathy works on a more contemporary level. My understanding of this subject is pretty limited, though.
We are going to have to use every resource available to get rid of Lyme & co-infections. The drugs just don't work for many of us.
I'll have to continue to study all of this...
We need better diagnostic tools and better treatments.
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