Biophotons are interesting phenomena, and Dr Popp is the founder of the work on biophotons and the putative role in cellular biochemical reactions.
The work of Dr Popp is hghly innovatove, but sadly enough, it has also be the base of the so called biophoton therapy.
The Starlight is a machine, brought to the market, to treat a variety of diseases with biophotons, such as malaria, Lyme, multple sclerosis, schizophrenia, depression etc.
Our foundation is very concerned about these unproven claims, and asked Dr Popp for his appraisal.
In the following clipp you find our analysis of biophoton therapy.
But let us first quote the concern of Dr Popp related to the use of biophoton machines and the claimed indications:
"We ourselves did never claim that "biophoton machines" are able at all.
The living system is working with biophotons which regulate the whole cell metabolism, since the about 100 000 chemical reactions which are permanently taking place per second and per cell have to be activated by photons (according to the knowledge of biochemistry, see, for instance, the text books of biochemistry).
This requirement of a extremely high coherence within the living system EXCLUDES the possibility of manufacturing a machine with this unbelievable accuracy and capacities.
Nevertheless, there are always scharlatans who believe in these miracles."
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
BIOPHOTONIC THERAPY
Text:
1. Biophotonic Therapy is the use of light to activate the chemiluminescence of the blood, an ancient form of immunity. It is photomedicine, not complementary or alternative medicine.
2. In BT's extracorporeal form, ultraviolet and visible light are used to treat a small amount of blood, which is then reinfused.
3. In BT's intravenous form, a low-intensity laser (generally at 632.8 nm) shines through a waveguide inside a needle into the blood.
4. Light is a drug. As with all drugs, Biophotonic Therapy's pharmacology includes effects, side effects, indications, and counterindications. BT tends to have fewer side effects than competing synthetic drugs.
5. Invented in the United States, Biophotonic Therapy was first used in 1928 to heal a woman moribund after a septic abortion. The original device has FDA clearance for indications that include various disseminated infections.
6. Biophotonic Therapy is practiced in Russia, Germany, the United States, and other countries. Some 12 books and 400 scientific articles describe Biophotonic Therapy.
7. Biophotonic Therapy is well-characterized at the biochemical level, but its chemiluminescent action requires further study.
8. Biophotonic Therapy forms a central component of the science of biophotonics. Its mechanisms have important implications for pharmacology, physiology, immunology, and neuroscience.
9. Biophotonic Therapy is the leading phototherapeutic treatment of infectious diseases. Its mechanisms of action are the same for all pathogens. There is no evidence that any microbe has ever developed resistance to BT.
10. Verbum sapientibus satis est.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
Biophotonic Therapy emerged from the intensive experimentation on the interaction of light with living tissue during the early part of the 20th century. Many researchers illuminated in vitro blood samples, and a few tried to do the same with in vivo shunts.
Beginning in 1923, Seattle scientist Emmet Knott, D.Sc., sought to harness in a systematic, extracorporal way the known bactericidal property of ultraviolet rays in order to treat infectious diseases of the blood.
Knott built an apparatus that would remove blood from the body through a tube, citrate it to avoid coagulation, expose it in a small chamber to calibrated UV, and then pump it through a tube back into the body.
In experiments with dogs, Knott first attempted to treat the entire volume of blood after infecting the dogs so as to induce severe septicemia. The treatment cleared their blood of any trace of infection, but they all died in 5-7 days of profound depression and a progressive respiratory slow-up and failure.
After further experimentation in which the apparatus failed part-way through the experiment but the dog survived without infection,
Knott concluded that it sufficed to treat a mere 1.5 cc of blood per pound of body weight--some 3-4 percent of the total volume of blood--and that this dose had no untoward side effects at all.
Knott's notion of treating the blood with UV to destroy microorganisms was a rather obvious one.
But demonstrating that this could be done in a safe and effective manner as well as devising over many years of careful testing a practical mode for so doing--these constituted a major scientific contribution.
The first treatment of a human occurred in 1928. The patient was a woman moribund following a septic abortion complicated by hemolytic streptococcus septicemia.
Treatment with ultraviolet BT returned her to normal health.
Indicative of the caution with which Knott and his medical collaborators worked, they did not attempt further treatment of a human subject until 1933 when the device again cured a patient with advanced hemolytic streptococcus septicemia.
The ultraviolet BT device then began to be used with some frequency on patients with severe septicemia and subsequently on patients with viral pneumonia.
By the 1940s scores of physicians were regularly using Knott's device according to the technique established by Knott.
They treated bacterial infections, pneumonia, poliomyelitis, botulism, non-healing wounds, encephalitis, peritonitis, asthma, pelvic inflammatory disease, biliary disease, hepatitis, and many other infectious, inflammatory, and autoimmune disorders.
Surgeons were particularly interested in the use of ultraviolet BT pre- and post-operationally to treat infections, and The American Journal of Surgery ran many articles on ultraviolet BT.
In more refractory illnesses, the treatment would be repeated many times over the course of a few weeks, with varying results depending largely on the stage of the disease.
In the treatment of tends of thousands of patients, the main side effect observed was a flushing of the skin.
The results of treatment included:
inactivation of toxins destruction and inhibition of growth of bacteria increase in the oxygen-combining power of the blood and oxygen transportation to organs activation of steroid hormones vasodilation activation of white blood cells stimulation of cellular and humoral immunity stimulation of fibrinolysis decreased viscosity of blood improved microcirculation stimulation of corticosteroid production decreased platelet aggregation.
Proponents of BT published their findings in dozens of scientific articles.
Thousands of patients were treated at leading centers like Georgetown University Hospital.
Ultraviolet BT fared well in several clinical trials with controls, but most of the published studies consisted of series of cases without controls.
One critical study (Moor et al., 1948) pointed out the lack of controls and the unclear criteria for success in the articles published by BT's proponents.
It also claimed that ultraviolet BT had no effect on bacteria or toxins.
But its own methodology was faulty. The researchers erroneously assumed that it was the direct extracorporeal treatment of the blood that was claimed to destroy great numbers of infectious microorganisms, whereas Knott had discovered that it was the pharmacological and immunostimulative action of the activated blood cells upon their return to the body that constituted the true therapy.
Likewise, in a test of ultraviolet BT's effects against overwhelming infections in rabbits innoculated with botulism, the critics used only a single dose of BT--not surprisingly, with no effect.
Another critical study (Schwartz et al., 1952) was funded in part by the American Medical Association and appeared in its Journal.
Again, even though the researchers quoted Knott on the point that it was not the direct treatment of the blod that destroyed the bacteria but rather the effects in vivo of small, repeated doses, they proceeded to test the direct bactericidal effect of the BT device and found it wanting.
They then tested ultraviolet BT on 68 patients with a wide range of symptoms. Ultraviolet BT reduced ulcers in 5 out of 8 patients but was apparently ineffective against most of 11 cases of pelvic inflammatory disease (PID).
The study had serious flaws, however. The 23 cases of hepatitis were acute ones which would presumably have resolved with or without intervention.
No report was made on the effects on 7 arthritis patients, and objective improvements in various indications were glided over.
Most PID patients received only 1-2 treatments, even though their cases were generally severe.
In certain PID cases, the researchers turned off the device to test whether the patients would report subjective improvement (they did).
But the researchers then listed these treatments as if the device had been turned on. In one case, a patient listed as having three treatments apparently received no BT whatsoever.
The researchers' scatter-gun approach on other indications was of anecdotal value only, especially since the samples were too small (often a single patient), criteria for improvement were no provided, and there were no controls.
In addition, no effort was made to distinguish between the effects of BT on early and late stages of the disease.
It is hard to avoid concluding that this study revealed more about the bias of the researchers and the AMA than it did about Biophotonic Therapy.
In Europe, Czech physician Karel Havlicek and others began using ultraviolet BT via muscular reinjection of small doses of blood, often just 10 ml.
Federico Wehrli treated oxygenated blood with UV in a procedure termed Hematogenic Oxidation Therapy (HOT). Since then, HOT has enjoyed a certain popularity in Central Europe.
The dramatic advances in antibiotics, vaccines, and corticosteroids in the 1950s put a halt to the growing interest in BT.
Amid the enthusiasm over the new wonder drugs, only a handful of physicians continued to use BT.
Even though it was illogical to set aside a therapy that could treat viral diseases (e.g., chronic hepatitis and viral pneumonia) that were impervious to antibiotics, this illogicality came to pass.
From 1955 until the 1990s, only a few American physicians continued to work with the ultraviolet BT device.
It did, however, receive FDA status as a device that was sold and distributed in interstate commerce prior to 1976 (510(k) status). This cleared it for use in treating the indications for which it had been advertised.
In Germany, practitioners persisted in using ultraviolet BT. By the 1980s, ultraviolet BT had become popular among East German and Russian physicians.
In the 1990s, Russian physicians began to use low-intensity lasers to treat the blood through an optical fiber inserted into a vein with an IV needle (laser BT).
This practice has begun to spread worldwide, including in East Asia.
Now interest in BT has arisen again in the United States.
Surging multidrug resistence of strains of bacteria, concerns over the side effects of drugs, efforts to control costs, and the HIV epidemic have led a small but growing number of medical researchers and physicians to seek to combat infectious and autoimmune diseases with Biophotonic Therapy.
*****
Note: The original name of this therapy--Ultraviolet Blood Irradiation--was highly misleading in its suggestiveness; and many less perceptive observers have been predictably misled, which explains in part why Biophotonic Therapy is not more widely known and used.
Of course, the key issues for any therapy are dose, effects, and side-effects--not the name of the therapy.
Other names for BT are Photoluminescence, Quantum Hemotherapy, and Photo-oxidation.
*****
Moor, F.B. et al., "An Evaluation of Hemoirradiative Therapy," Archives of Physical Medicine 19 (1948), pp. 358-65
Schwartz, Steven O. et al., "Ultraviolet Irradiation of Blood in Man," Journal of the American Medical Association 149 (1952), pp. 1180-3
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by sparkle7: (from a website that sells products)
IOCOB is a Dutch website that tries to offer guidance regarding alternative and complementary medicine. For a lot of therapies they discuss the scientific basis (or lack of it), studies that were published in open (or scientific) literature etc. The website tries to be objective and open minded; I think they generally do a good job of that (although looking at things from a scientific point of view will discredit the site to some right away ...).
Biophotonic therapy (and most of the variations like bioresonance, zappers etc.) gets a red light which means: totally unproven (e.g. no supporting evidence in PubMed or other official scientific literature), no proof that it is risk free, not recommended, use at your own risk. The claims by Starlight on the same page are a good example why IOCOB gives this therapy a 'red light'.
The IOCOB website does NOT sell any products, it is a non-profit organisation with a little bit of government funding.
regarding biophotons: yes, they exist but the science got hijacked for marketing therapies that have nothing (or very little) to do with it.
Posts: 29 | From Netherlands | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Sorry - I posted another website's info about biophotons but I edited it later.
I should have checked it. I was mainly interested that Dr. Fritz Popp says that miraculous claims made by companies selling biophotonic products are not valid.
He's the guy who "discovered" biophotons. I see alot of products using his name to substantiate their wares. I don't know if he is aware of it or if he approves.
If it were me, it would make me angry to see every new age gadget using my name to validate it - by proxy.
I think biophotonic therapies are quite valid & I've improved alot since using the LightWorks device. There are many scientific studies about using light for healing.
It's really just about the infrared wavelength... not the device. The Nogier frequencies are helpful, too.
I don't think it's a miracle cure, though. It just part of my protocol.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by sparkle7: He's the guy who "discovered" biophotons. I see alot of products using his name to substantiate their wares. I don't know if he is aware of it or if he approves. ... I think biophotonic therapies are quite valid & I've improved alot since using the LightWorks device. There are many scientific studies about using light for healing.
Popp is aware of this and clearly does NOT approve; but these things happen. Biophotonic therapies have little or nothing to do with the real science of biophotons (they are more related to electro acupuncture). Besides, even the biophoton science itself is still considered experimental.
That doesn't say that these devices are useless because there are other ways that light or electrical stimulation can be beneficial (e.g. UV for vitamin production, infrared for stimulating processes deeper in the skin). But I would not spend my money on expensive medical devices that are sold with a 'scientific' backing that clearly is nothing more than marketing hype.
Posts: 29 | From Netherlands | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Thanks Niek! For the insights into the products being sold. Those who have been trying to understand the relevance of biophotons and how they might be used therapeutically are thankfull to Professor Popp and others for their research.
Lyme is a disease, I believe will become to be quite an epidemic. Imagine in 10 years it is easily delivered by mosquitos and becomes more virulent. We need as many weapons to fight this insidious organism as we can find.
Is it yours and others opinion that biophotons can correct disease imbalances? Are LEDs effective against disease and is it truly noninvasive?
After using the lightworks (300 dollars) it is not a panacea, but a very good adjunctive tool. I haven't used the expensive bionic 880 at (10,000 dollars) so can't comment. Is there a real difference in the physics for the LEDs used between these devices that would justify the cost?
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by lymie_in_md: Is it yours and others opinion that biophotons can correct disease imbalances? ... Is there a real difference in the physics for the LEDs used between these devices that would justify the cost?
As mentioned before, despite claims to the contrary these devices have NOTHING to do with the real science of biophotons. If they have value as a treatment for Lyme or problems Lyme patients are having (I haven't seen any objective proof of that yet, but who knows ...) it is not because of 'biophoton science'. I would guess cheaper alternatives could offer similar benefits.
Equipment for bioresonance (I know, not the same) is sold for prices in the $10.000 range or more, while the hardware used in these devices costs only a few % of the total price charged. All the rest is profit (or 'compensation for all the expensive research').
Posts: 29 | From Netherlands | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Photons...energy needed to help phosphate transfer.
cAMP (cyclic adenosine monophosphate - mono = 1 phosphate) -> ADP -> ATP...which then will drive Mg (if available) back into the cell and once again form Mg-ATP.
Bb has a PKC ***inhibitor***. I think it is PKCD...protein kinase C, delta.
Kinases help phosphate transfers.
Bb is inhibiting phosphate transfer.
The cells infected (dendrite, macrophage and B cells) are pooped out....not enough energy.
ATP if present, shuts off glycolysis. The cell already has enough "energy".
Delta = triangle shape = letter "d" or "D" or PPi = *pyrophosphate* = bisphosphate.
2 phosphate groups.
Transfer being inhibited.
Add them back in by providing the energy (photons) to do so and recharge the infected cells.
Remember Valletta's patent? Mg *pyrophosphate* and sub (lingual) B6 to cure autoimmune diseases?
I wish Titan Pharmaceuticals would release gallium maltolate (looks to be a safer form of gallium) to treat chronic lyme, Parkinson's and Alzheimers. Gallium inhibits TNF alpha and IL1 B which are triggering COX-2 instead of COX-1.
I wish Lyme was a part of the far infrared gov sponsored trials too that are currently recruiting.
quote:Originally posted by Marnie: Photons...energy needed to help phosphate transfer.
yes, in plants during photosynthesis ... but not in humans, unless you have a serious infection Posts: 29 | From Netherlands | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Lyme is a serious infection! ;-{
There are actually some studies comparing biophotons, plants & humans...
Title; Sustaining Faculty of Living Functions and Its Biophoton Observation.
Abstract;The authors focus on fluids of living bodies. Wounds in plants are thought to show biophoton emission, however, this report shows that sap itself radiates biophotons rather than the wound.
The number of sap biophotons changes dependent on living state conditions. A difference in sustaining faculty of living functions may appear in the number of the sap photons.
In the case of animals, their body fluids correspond to sap in plants. The human body shows remarkable photon emissions from abnormal areas, such as wounds, sites of skin diseases, and other injuries affecting some part of skin surface.
Moreover, the authors find for the first time that thermal stimulation with moxa leads the human body to radiate biophotons. As the biophoton emission intensifies after moxa, an attempt is made to detect changes in the human body.
After moxa, the photon numbers and the body temperature are observed as a time chart before and after healing in Okada's manner. In contrast with the decreasing photon number, the temperature increases during the healing.
There is not only a simple energy change, but also some healing effect to the human body. (author abst.)
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Originally posted by Marnie: Photons...energy needed to help phosphate transfer. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Response (Niek):
"yes, in plants during photosynthesis ... but not in humans, unless you have a serious infection."
********
I would classify lyme as a very very serious infection!!! It leads to cancer. UNDOUBTEDLY...esp. breast and prostate. No PKCD in prostate cancer cells. And E2 is trying to activate PKCD in breast cancer.
Why do lyme patient have to go to Germany to receive treatment?
WHY on earth do lyme patient have to go underground in the United States to cure themselves of lyme using Rife technology which was available in the 1940s?
Why is the Italian doctor's (Valletta)U.S. patent "Magnesium for Autoimmune (Mg pyrophosphate and sub B6)...being ignored?
Do you think we don't KNOW Mg inactivates HMG CoA reductase?
Why does Pubmed not post the Romanian abstract that CLEARLY indicates Mg levels DIVE at the outset of this disease? This comes from a CANCER hospital. Pubmed mentions this abstract by title only. No summary. WHY?
About gallium...do you want me to...
You know as well as I know.
This disease is impacting CHILDREN (as well as a lot of adults).
I need you to think about that..a LOT.
God help us.
YOU want us to think this is hopeless or wait until lyme progresses to more "serious" diseases...triage.
I don't share that belief. I believe we can nip this in the bud.
[ 20. July 2008, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by sparkle7: There are actually some studies comparing biophotons, plants & humans...
I think you don't get my point: biophotons exist, but the SCIENCE has little to nothing to do with all the expensive medical equipment that is being talked about here, and the 'science' they quote to sell their stuff.
At this point 'biophotons' is just a very controversial subject on the borders of science; one of the few subjects with significant number of publications is bioluminescence (nothing new, btw) and nobody is really sure if this is something real or just a side effect of biochemical reactions going on in the skin (or parts of plant tissue). It reminds me a bit of auras and Kirlian photography in the sixties.
Posts: 29 | From Netherlands | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Marnie: Originally posted by Marnie: Photons...energy needed to help phosphate transfer. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Response (Niek):
"yes, in plants during photosynthesis ... but not in humans, unless you have a serious infection."
********** I would classify lyme as a very very serious infection!!!
I don't doubt Lyme is a serious infection (I am a Lymie too). But what you are saying about photons and ATP only happens in plants during photosynthesis; it does NOT occur in other lifeforms like humans (at least not on a significant scale), check the biochemistry textbooks! That's what I meant with my remark: if you really have photosynthesis going on in your body, you must have a plant infection (algae or something).
quote: It leads to cancer. UNDOUBTEDLY...esp. breast and prostate. No PKCD in prostate cancer cells. And E2 is trying to activate PKCD in breast cancer.
Lyme leads to cancer? I could as well say then that life leads to cancer. It happens, maybe more often in Lymies because their defenses are down. Only for a few selected forms of cancer there seems to be a statistical association with Lyme (e.g. non-Hodgkin, if I remember correctly).
There is a lot of data that suggests bacterial infections can lead to cancer, e.g. breast and prostate cancer. Research in this direction is going on in many medical research departments (e.g. in my country at the most famous cancer research institute). But research in this area (e.g. regarding l-forms) is controversial so progress is slow.
If you think some doctors in Germany have the final cure for Lyme and the US Government (or whatever other government) is trying to stop them well ... that sounds like conspiracy theory to me. I agree that most governments are not very helpfull and often try to sweep Lyme disease under the rug (same story in my country), but that is something else.
If these new treatments are really super-effective for Lyme disease we will find out very soon. I'm close to Germany, I know a bit of what is going on there in the Lyme community. There IS no magical cure for Lyme, although new forms of magic with a scientific wrapup are announced every year (usually with a hefty price tag).
Posts: 29 | From Netherlands | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Niek, is homeopathy a means to fighting this disease? And what your opinion the most efficacious way of battling lyme?
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Niek: If you think some doctors in Germany have the final cure for Lyme and the US Government (or whatever other government) is trying to stop them well ... that sounds like conspiracy theory to me. I agree that most governments are not very helpfull and often try to sweep Lyme disease under the rug (same story in my country), but that is something else.
If these new treatments are really super-effective for Lyme disease we will find out very soon. I'm close to Germany, I know a bit of what is going on there in the Lyme community. There IS no magical cure for Lyme, although new forms of magic with a scientific wrapup are announced every year (usually with a hefty price tag). [/QB]
I second that - and I'm living IN Germany and I know the Lyme community here in depth.
Gabrielle
[ 20. July 2008, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Gabrielle ]
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by lymie_in_md: Niek, is homeopathy a means to fighting this disease? And what your opinion the most efficacious way of battling lyme?
I don't think homeopathy is of much use in curing chronic lyme; maybe it helps in the earlier stages (I heard of a few cases, no idea if it is representative). Like many, many 'alternative' treatments mentioned on the lyme forums, it may help a little in getting rid of other infections (like yeast) or deficiencies, or strengthening the immune system, so you can better fight the Borrelias.
Even in countries where homeopathy has a strong position (like Germany) I almost never hear about patients who were cured with (just) this treatment.
As to the best treatment: look at those Lyme doctors who are Lymies themselves; some of them are open minded enough to consider alternative treatments. That many of them are still ill (or at least not fully cured) says enough. We simply don't know enough yet to fight this disease and get rid of it. Probably treatments need to be adapted to the individual, and normal healthcare doesn't like that (too much work = expensive).
I had better results from using a few weeks of Buhner herbs than from more than a year of heavy antibiotics. Despite huge progress, I'm not fully cured either and I know very little chronic lymies who were fully cured (with any treatment, allthough I guess in general antibiotics give the best results). Maybe there is no final cure for Lyme, or only for those who are lucky.
Posts: 29 | From Netherlands | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Don't be so quick to dismiss homeopathy, it's just the practitioner that matters. There is a book by a German homeopath, The Homeopathic Treatment of Lyme Disease, by Peter Alex, he treated chronic cases. I also found a homeopath who is 3 hours from me, ended up at her site, one of the patient testimonies she had fibro, chronic fatigue, migraines, various health problems, and lived in New Jersey (lyme endemic). When I talked to the homeopath on the phone we agreed that patient probably had undiagnosed chronic lyme. She has no more physical symptoms and now they are working on her emotional picture.
That doesn't mean you'd find the right person but homeopathy can probably work in chronic lyme.
Glad you're doing better with Buhner herbs. I'm afraid to try them--too much unknown and many folks having adverse reactions although some doing very well.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Gabrielle - Your last post was very hurtful and mean-spirited. Do you honestly think we would go to all this trouble and expense for nothing?!?!?
I researched this and did not jump into it naively. All I want is that my son get well and no longer have Lyme or chronic pain.
I understand what you mean about investigating things and being wary of treatments which sound too good to be true. There are many out there which promise so much and deliver so little.
We are like "pioneers" in the Biophoton experience. I wish you would read the latest post by Gigi on the "We have come home with the Biophoton 880" thread.
I saw her husband with my own two eyes. He was shuffling along and needed to be helped. She is now reporting that after his 7th treatment (continuing at home as she has the machine) he has improved noticeably and that she has to take a second look to see if it's really him.
How do you explain that, Gabrielle? Please don't just sweep this treatment under the rug and consider us fools for trying it.
We are doing this not only for our loved ones, but also for the entire Lyme community, some of whom may benefit from this! I pray that it helps you too!
The only way we could do this was because my family helped us (we are truly blessed)! I am lucky that I studied German for four years in high school (but that was many, many years ago!).
It is very expensive to come to Germany and there is no-one here to help you - you need to do things yourself (i.e. living arrangements, food and medicine purchases, etc.)
You know that each person is different and responds individually to various treatments. What works for one may not work for another.
In addition, length of illness is a factor because of possible permanent damage due to Lyme and its co-infections.
We are all looking for help. Please don't demean those who are sincerely trying and searching.
Posts: 8981 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by oxygenbabe: That doesn't mean you'd find the right person but homeopathy can probably work in chronic lyme.
Finding the right practitioner is a general problem with alternative treatments, and it shows that it is more 'art' than 'science'. In Netherlands very few homeopathic docs seem to be treating chronic Lyme with (just) homeopathic means.
quote: Glad you're doing better with Buhner herbs. I'm afraid to try them--too much unknown and many folks having adverse reactions although some doing very well.
I think the Buhner herbs are relatively well known. There are loads of articles about these herbs and their main ingredients in the medical papers, and a long history of medical use - although mostly outside western medicine. Allergic reactions to andrographis occur (Buhner says maybe in 1% of cases) but the adverse effects (if any) seem far less scary and damaging to me compared to those from longterm antibiotics.
Posts: 29 | From Netherlands | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by hopingandpraying: I understand what you mean about investigating things and being wary of treatments which sound too good to be true. There are many out there which promise so much and deliver so little.
We are like "pioneers" in the Biophoton experience. I wish you would read the latest post by Gigi on the "We have come home with the Biophoton 880" thread.
I think people from the other side of the pond (like Germany and Netherlands) have far more experience with this subject and because of this are more cautious.
We have seen exactly the same overhyped claims from many previous alternative 'treatments', especially bioresonance in all its flavors. They always claim to use the latest science etc. but the science they are using to explain the technology is nonsense, marketing talk. After a few years you stop hearing about it and another flavor comes along, another very expensive device, used by expensive practitioners who usually have no medical education. The only change is in the marketing talk, e.g. the new version is backed by 'biophotons' instead of 'quantum mechanics'.
Maybe people from the US tend to believe that everything that comes from Germany is 'gruendlich' and basid on solid science. Well, I don't think so.
Some people get better on bioresonance, although most examples that I heard of never tested positive for Borrelia to start with. So maybe they had another problem and not Lyme, and maybe they were getting better despite the treatment. Despite stories from some manufacturers and practitioners that they cured thousands of Lyme patients, there is not ONE independent article in the medical press that backs their claims. I know many examples of people who have spend a lot of money on this and did NOT get any better.
So yes, you are pioneers and as I said in a previous post: if this really is the magical cure for Lyme we will find out soon because there should be startling results within 10 treatments or so. I cannot say it doesn't work (never used it and don't know anyone who tried this device). I guess it could work a bit somehow, like many other infrared devices etc.
But IMHO this device has nothing to do with biophoton science. If someone thinks that Prof. Popp or his coworkers think otherwise, please send me proof.
Posts: 29 | From Netherlands | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by hopingandpraying: Gabrielle - Your last post was very hurtful and mean-spirited. We are all looking for help. Please don't demean those who are sincerely trying and searching.
Hopingandpraying,
This was not my intention but by reading my post again I see what you mean - I apologize for it and I erased the hurtful sentence.
What I want to avoid is that one day people will scream at me and say: but you are in Germany and you should have known it. Why didn't you warn us?
I read Gigi's other post and I cannot explain it as well as I cannot explain many other things she said that worked for her in the past. I tried some of them and they didn't work for me...
Again, please accept my apology.
Gabrielle
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Apology accepted, Gabrielle. As I said before, what works for one does not necessarily work for another with this horrible disease.
We are all in this fight TOGETHER! Sharing information helps others, but there is no guarantee it will work.
Ultimately, each person decides what treatment they will try by gleaning information from this very informative website. Researching it is also very important.
I know I have learned so very much from others willing to share and am grateful for it. Wish there was someone to guide us every step of the way!
Posts: 8981 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged |
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
There is alot of research on using UV & Infrared light for healing.
I bought a device for $295 that has red & infrared LEDs. It's really helped with my pain level. I'm not sure what it's doing in regards to my Lyme but it does make me feel better & I can use less pain medication.
I agree with Niek about people putting faith into things that are not worthy of it. I did an extensive research on the internet about The Bionic 880 & found no evidence that it "cures" Lyme other than what 1 doctor was saying.
If something was out there & really curing people - there would be reports of it on the internet.
Using light for healing has been around for a while. Dr. Popp did not invent it. He did discover biophotons & coined that term.
There are many studies from Eastern Europe & Russia that use infrared light & UV light for healing. None of it has been tested on Lyme - that I know of.
hopingandpraying- I feel that Gabrielle is not trying to be hurtful - she's trying to help people from spending their life savings to go to Germany for a treatment that may not work.
I don't have anything against GiGi & hope she & her husband do well. I just don't think this Bionic 880 is worth it & I don't think it will "cure" Lyme by itself.
I am using a device that costs a few hundred dollars as compared to $10,000 & I'm doing very well with it. I feel alot better. Will it be a "cure"? I don't know. Is it helping? YES!
I think it's important to look at all sides of the issue. Have an open mind but look at the facts.
We all have wasted $1000s on treatments that didn't work. Infrared light has many beneficial qualities. It doesn't matter what device is producing it. It's the 880 wavelength that's important.
In my experience - the Nogier frequencies do seem to help in conjunction with the 880nm wavelength.
You can get these benefits for alot less than spending $10,000+ & traveling to a foreign country.
I like to travel but when you're ill, it can be very stressful & expensive.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Light is energy
which travels in waves OR in "bundles" (photons).
This technically is incorrect, but for those who have a hard time understanding this...think of photons as a string of **light energy** beads...or if you can visualize waves...see the energy that way.
Once again...
Light is energy which can be expressed as waves or as bundles (photons). Photons have no mass.
We give off photons and we also USE them.
For example:
"The human eye is very sensitive but can we see a single photon?
The answer is that the sensors in the retina **can respond to a single photon.** "
We do indeed absorb/utilize lightwaves or photons.
Light energy is absolutely essential to all life forms.
Energy is never lost. It is used, but not used up.
Like...we breathe oxygen and make carbon dioxide which is used by plants (and Bb)...and plants in turn use CO2 to produce oxygen for us.
This is a cycle. All life is an endless cycle of energy and nutrients.
The circle of life.
As I understand it.
Color is powerful. We know white reflects heat (which is why we wear white clothes in the summer). And our black asphalt driveways ABSORB heat (which is why we can burn our feet (if shoeless) when walking on those driveways in summer. Other cultures also are very in tune to the effect of the different colors.
Red, for example, supposedly stimulates the appetite. Which maybe WHY red is predominant in a lot of restaurants (esp. Chinese).
Strobe lights (very fast flashes of white light) is KNOWN to trigger seizures in susceptible individuals because these fast flashes disrupt the cells electrolyte "channels".
Can light heal? Of course. We have known this for many years. Why do you suppose those with TB went to sanitariums to be exposed to sunlight, get fresh air, rest and recuperate... and recover?
"In 1882,the German physician and bacteriologist Robert Koch discovered the cause of tuberculosis.
However, for a number of years many physicians were dubious of his finding, or they rejected it outright.
Some stubbornly held to the age-old belief that TB was inherited and not contagious.
Others continued to believe that the disease was caused by something in the human make-up.
Even before Koch's discovery, the belief that fresh air and rest were better than the medicines then in use was taking shape, with one tuberculosis sanitarium being established in Germany in 1859 and one in Asheville, North Carolina, in 1875.
Later, this belief seemed to be confirmed when it was found that
the tuberculosis bacillus was killed by sunlight."
Why is it so hard to believe that light can destroy pathogens? Perhaps not directly, but by aiding our own system to do the job it for us.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Thanks for that, Marnie-
Do you think infrared can cure Lyme?
How about UV?
They both seem like interesting options in the War on Lyme.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Sparkle as long as people can share a device say 25 people. 10,000 dollars turns out to be 400 dollars a person. 50 people 200 dollars, and you could still use the lightworks as an adjunctive to that.
I think GiGi is right, we need to test the waters on a group of pioneers working with a practioner to energy test individuals. Its all fine and good the device is working for both of us. But many people have far worse issues. Metals, traumas, cavitations, emotional problems, nutrional problems to name a few.
The lightworks is a good adjuntive therapy not a cure in itself.
I suggest still to have a group here in the states reporting progress on this forum. And I believe if 25 people could put their names in the ring and commit. I can find a practioner to put the full package together.
If it doesn't work, well it would have to be folks who can lose 400 dollars for the machine and not sweat about it. Not having the machine here and not knowing isn't a very good place to be either.
The problem is finding pioneers, everyone has a wait and see view.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
If only you knew how much money I have in the bank right now, Bob... LOL
It's also a long drive to MD from here & the price of gas!
I'm just not into the idea right now, Bob. I hope it will work out for you if you do go with it.
I have my reservations about the Bionic 880. Light is light.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Marnie: Why is it so hard to believe that light can destroy pathogens? Perhaps not directly, but by aiding our own system to do the job it for us.
of course light can destroy pathogens, if you use high enough dose (and usually short enough wavelength). It can even kill humans if you up the dosage (go sunning in New Zealand in summer for a few days without protection and you find out ...). UV irradiation (wavelengths like 150-400nm) is a common way of killing bacteria, fungi etc.
The problem is to find some form of light that is SPECIFIC for killing a pathogen, either directly (without killing the host!!) or by SPECIFICALLY activating our immune systems or proteins (lower level) to kill the pathogen.
Trouble is, most parasites are FAR more resistant to damage like this than humans.
And to make it more difficult, with Lyme you have to find something that works in the whole body, not just in the outer few mm of skin where light can penetrate. Yes I know, certain lasers can go deeper but you can't treat the whole body that way, it would kill you. If you cure just the outer skin layers, the problem will come back soon (in the case of Lyme, although it might help very well if you have just a yeast infection or so on the skin).
I think the 'biophoton 880' people are suggesting that this device can specifically activate our own defenses, or specifically kill parasites, with this 880 nm infrared wavelength. There is ZERO scientific proof for that claim, not in 'biophotonics' and not in other sciences that I know of. Still, I agree it might help (a bit) along the lines that sparkle mentions above.
Posts: 29 | From Netherlands | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Niek - I posted alot of studies on another thread called "Healing with light" or something. You can do a search of this website for it.
Also, this website has many studies it you look through it -
Many of the studies come from Eastern Europe or the former Soviet Union. They did alot of research in this area.
In the Western countries, there is competition with the drug companies so I think this limits the amount of research done.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Hens exposed to the 880nM wavelength did NOT lay eggs.
Check it out...Pubmed...search
far infrared 880nM (to find the abstract.)
Calcium channels?
Look closely at the timing...and think about whether it impacted fertilization, the development of the embryo (proteins), or impacted the development of the SHELL.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Marnie: far infrared 880nM (to find the abstract.)
you meant 'near infrared' maybe? 880 nm is near IR, not far IR.
Posts: 29 | From Netherlands | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
It would be great if Professor Popp would address this forum on what he's learned about the efficacy of biophotons and how important they might be in disease, such as lyme.
Also, if they are important in some way, how best they might be used.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic