posted
Sorry to ask, but exactly what is that? I'm trying to learn as much as I can.
-------------------- "~*~My smile hides my bite~*~." Posts: 506 | From N/A | Registered: Jun 2008
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Marnie
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Member # 773
posted
Infants...up until the age of 2...NEVER, EVER get diabetes.
I need you to think about that.
WHY?
What gene is INactivated or becomes active at age 2 and WHY?
What activates or INactivates genes?
???
These findings are potentially useful for clarifying the pathogenesis of APS (antiphospholipid synthesis) and for developing therapeutic strategies that suppress pathogenic antiphospholipid antibody production in these patients. (Blood. 2001;98:1889-1896)
Bb's cell walls ARE phospholipids.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Nessa-I'm still learning myself but from what I understand the genotype means that my body can't eliminate toxins by itself. It also means that recovery is much harder than for others.
I'm still trying to figure out what low MSH means.
Marnie-forgive me. My brain does not work well at all these days. I don't understand-can you explain more?
Posts: 65 | From CA | Registered: Jun 2008
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Clarissa
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Member # 4715
posted
It does NOT mean your case is hopeless. I have it and I'm in remission.
Thank you. I really needed to hear that. I have developed a bad depression since starting treatment.
My doctor and I both feel it's part of the herx.
Getting this news didn't help the depression much at all so it was really great to get your reply. The depression has been very bad this week.
Congratulations on being in remission and thank you again.
Any suggestions on what I can do in the meantime while waiting to speak with my doctor on the 6th?
Posts: 65 | From CA | Registered: Jun 2008
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Clarissa
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posted
You'll need to be prescribed a toxin binder. I took (and still take) Cholestyrmaine. No biggie! With all the meds you're taking, just tack it on.
In the meantime, try and do what "normal" people do for detox:
Fresh lemon (lots of it) squeezed in your water Hot baths with epsom salt and baking soda
I think you can order a toxin binder from Nutramedix.com (no rx needed) but someone else will have to chime in about that as I'm not an expert in that area.
Low MSH means that you have high inflammation and things are "off" in general. Taking the cholestyramine will heighten your MSH over time.
NAC (I use Vitacost NSI NAC) will cleanse your liver. Sublingual B12 and BComplex would be good for nerves
We don't have the enzymes needed to destroy Bb's lipoproteins, so we ``oxidize'' them... when fats (lipoproteins) are oxidized, they turn RANCID. Rancid LDL + calcium = plaques that line the blood vessels.
MSH = melanocyte stimulating hormone
-Melanocyte-stimulating hormone (MSH), a stimulus which *increases intracellular cAMP*, cannot disperse pigment in these cells.
So if your MSH is low, you have LESS cAMP.
The fact that your MSH is low, is not necessarily a bad thing.
``This effect of okadaic acid is similar to that of
a-melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH) and
***can be reversed by melatonin treatment***;
it indicates that a member of the protein-phosphatase 1 or 2A families
must be active for maintenance of the aggregated state.''
``Protein Phosphatase-1, a Cellular Economizer and Reset Button...
The protein serine/threonine phosphatase protein phosphatase-1 (PP1) is a ubiquitous eukaryotic enzyme that regulates a variety of cellular processes through the dephosphorylation (remove phosphate) of dozens of substrates.
The picture of PP1 that emerges from this analysis is that of a "green" enzyme that promotes the rational use of energy, the recycling of protein factors, and a reversal of the cell to a basal and/or energy-conserving state.
Thus PP1 promotes a shift to the more energy-efficient fuels when nutrients are abundant and stimulates the storage of energy in the form of glycogen.
PP1 also enables the relaxation of actomyosin fibers, the return to basal patterns of protein synthesis, and the recycling of transcription and splicing factors.
In addition, PP1 plays a key role in the recovery from stress but promotes apoptosis when cells are damaged beyond repair. Furthermore, PP1 downregulates ion pumps and transporters in various tissues and ion channels that are involved in the excitation of neurons. Finally, PP1 promotes the exit from mitosis and maintains cells in the G1 or G2 phases of the cell cycle.''
A phosphatase is an enzyme that removes a phosphate group from its substrate by hydrolysing phosphoric acid monoesters into a phosphate ion and a molecule with a free hydroxyl group (see dephosphorylation).
This action is directly opposite to that of phosphorylases and kinases, which attach phosphate groups to their substrates by using energetic molecules like ATP.
A common phosphatase in many organisms is alkaline phosphatase.
(I think the SALP15 protein that Bb picks up in the saliva is skeletal alkaline phosphatase which binds to CD4 T cells.) Neat trick.
Phosphatases REMOVE phosphate groups and kinases are supposed to add them back on.
Bb has lots of phosphatases (removing phosphate), including this one: phosphoserine phosphatase (Kegg enzyme list for all of Bb's enzymes)
Bb has a PKC *inhibitor*...Protein KINASE C...I think it is the delta form.
So Bb is PREVENTING the adding back on of a phosphate group.
I think it is preventing the adding of phosphate onto serine.
Phosphatidly serine balances the HPA axis (the communication between the hypothalamus, pituitary and adrenal glands). This is because Bb loves epinephrine and norepinephrine.
Phosphatases can be categorised into two main categories: Cysteine-dependent Phosphatases (CDPs) and metallo-phosphatases (which are dependent on metal ions in their active sites for activity).
Melatonin is a powerful antioxidant...and as you prob. already know...glutathione, our #1 anti-oixidant drops..a LOT. A lot of ROS is damaging to Bb, but it is also damaging to nearby cells too. So this is a ``catch 22''...we need to reduce the free radicals, but we are using them to destroy (oxidize) the lipoproteins in the cell walls of pathogens...mold as well as Bb.
Now...you are in luck...my daughter is allergic to mold and I was just (yesterday) doing research:
"Effects of mold oil containing gamma-linolenic acid (n-3) on the blood cholesterol and eicosanoid levels in rats."
Linolenic acid (mold produces/contains) converts to arachidonic acid by human cells. Then this (AA) is further reduced by COX enzymes which trigger the prostaglandins (use AA themselves) which utilize it ***to mediate the inflammation***. See below.
If there is a LOT of exposure to mold ``toxins'' (lipoproteins containing linolenic acid), TNF alpha (proinflammatory cytokine) and perhaps IL1B kick in and trigger COX-2 (cytochrome oxidase) -> PGE-2 (prostaglandin 2) -> HO-2 (heme oxidase, a heat shock protein) -> Fe (iron), CO (yes carbon monoxide) and biliverdin which converts to bilirubin - the pigment in bile which is also released when RBCs die.
This is prob. why many lyme patients have problems with mold allergies developing too.
A PFK deficiency also triggers anemia. Bb is PFK dependent.
Bb:
"Surprisingly, membrane lipids (e.g., linoleic and linolenic acids) derived from host are the major target of ROS in the Lyme disease spirochete."
Actually Bb incorporates AA into the lipoproteins in its *outer cell wall* which then are oxidized by our ``free radicals''. Nice...but apparently this clever pathogen which has multiple cell layers simply ``pumps'' up to the surface more of the protein...which just happens to be lecithin.
`` Modest surface labeling once again was detected when PK-treated spirochetes were reprobed after overnight incubation, a result consistent with the existence of a postulated secretory apparatus that
shuttles lipoproteins to the borrelial surface.''
***``Phospholipids are an important component of bacterial membranes. Borrelia burgdorferi differs from many other bacteria in that it contains only two major membrane phospholipids:
phosphatidylglycerol (PG) and phosphatidylcholine (PC).''***
So...bottom line...you are going to produce a LOT of arachidonic acid which we then have to rid via the COX enzymes.
COX-1 -> PGE2 will go thru the roof because TNF alpha and IL1B trigger that route primarily. (Though it looks like some COX-1 -> PGE1 will kick in too.)
Your low MSH might be reversed partially with additional melatonin, but don't overdo it. We do need to protect healthy cells from the tremendous amt. of antioxidants being produced.
Ideally increasing hydrogen should help.
Personally, I'd supplement curcumin, reservatrol and phosphatidyl serine...and I'd ramp up the doses based on my reaction. I would avoid linolenic acid (in Omega 3) and linoleic acid (in Omega 6). (AL, or ALA or NLA = different ways it is listed on labels). It is IN the Omega 3s. CLA is okay and is GOOD! DHA and EPA might be okay too. Flax SEED is okay...NOT the oil. Not a lot of oils.
``Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) and Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA), but Not alpha-Linolenic Acid, Suppress Deoxynivalenol-Induced Experimental IgA *Nephropathy* in Mice''
I'm pretty sure the enzyme in the Western Fence Lizard that is capable of destroying Bb is PDE1.
PDE1 (phosphodiesterase1) is a phosphodiesterase enzyme also known as calcium- and calmodulin-dependent phosphodiesterase.
The role of PDE1 enzymes is to *degrate both cGMP and cAMP.*
Because of in vitro regulation by Ca2+/calmodulin, PDE1s are believed to function as a mechanism for integrating cell signalling pathways mediated by cGMP and cAMP with pathways that regulate *intracellular calcium levels*.
We know Bb follows the ``cholesterol pathway''. We know it uses CO2 fixation and the last step requires Na. Bb wants Na IN the cell and Ca OUT.
It is using Mn for all enzymes (we use Mg).
It needs choline, but can NOT breakdown acetylcholine...it counts on us to do that.
Get your level of D-xylose (5 carbon sugar) checked!
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Linolenic acid, working with Enzymes, becomes part of some Prostaglandins.
Prostaglandins sometimes LIMIT Inflammatory reactions In the body and sometimes CAUSE Inflammatory reactions.
( Copied from a book I have )
I think this say's , that Marnie is right. ????
Posts: 153 | From England | Registered: Jun 2008
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
I spoke with a doctor a few days ago for a few hours (interviewing him) who has lyme and specializes in treating lyme.
He uses nanochitosan (unless you have a shellfish allergy) and ZeoActiv. These are good binders. He said cholestyramine works by irreversibly binding 3-6% of your bile. Then you make fresh bile to replace it, hopefully without all those toxins but who knows. Anyway he said many lymies already have gut motility issues and cholestyramine is constipating so he finds it a problem. Another consideration with any of these adsorbers or binders is to take them far away from your meds and hopefully also not close to meals. Cholestyramine binds fat soluble toxins, it would also bind your fat soluble vitamins. Not sure what the nanochitosan and Zeoactiv do. I'm not sure I'm spelling ZeoActiv correclty either. The animal research on zeolite is pretty amazing. I have been studying it and it is really good mycotoxin adsorber too. I probably will try some. I'm sure i have the dreaded genotype from my symptoms. Why bother testing, ugh. I could not tolerate cholestyramine it made me so gassy and constipated.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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I don't really like the term because it's so negative
My LLMD definitely sees a correlation with this genotype and her sickest, most chronic cases, but she did get me to about 90-95% remisssion before I went off of everything and relapsed
My LLMD's son has the "dreaded genotype" too - so she's always looking at novel ways to handle this
FYI - I personally had a bad reaction to cholestyramine, so I know it works great for some but for me the CSM/Actos protocol did not work the way it was expected to
Detox has to be a huge part of your treatment (I'm doing well with the nutramedix products),
I am super careful about any potential exposure to mold and have eliminated toxins from my life as much as possible -
my food and water, the air I breathe, make up/beauty products, cleaning supplies etc...
Having the dreaded genotype is just fact, not a sentence!
We can get well too, it's just a little trickier
-------------------- "We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us" - e.m. forster Posts: 921 | From PA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
No, I don't think it means your case is hopeless
I also have the "Dreaded" HLA markers--several of them, including the one in which you cannot excrete toxins.
I am also HLA-DR4 Positive, the one that is notorious for Chronic arthritis in Lyme disease.
I still believe there is hope, you have to with this disease.
Best of luck.
Posts: 371 | From CT | Registered: Jun 2008
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lymemomtooo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5396
posted
celtic, a funny question just popped up..Is the dreaded genotype more prevalent in Europeans..More specifically in British Isles ones?
And I only thought that from your handle but you might be referring to basketball instead of family ancestry.
My daughter has all of the bad genes. She gets everything easier, and can't eliminate toxins. Also cholesteramine was almost a death sentence so I am very wary of it. But we try chlorella and lemon in water all of the time.
Marnie, I only wish I had the grey matter to understand everything you tell us. I know someday you will hit the cure. Wish I had spent more time on my chemistry and less on my pinochle playing and parties. lmt
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Thanks for all the replies. Though I hate it that other people have to deal with this too it helps to not feel so alone with this stuff.
It sounds like you all are improving in spite of the genotype. That's great to hear.
Someone said to me that genotypes are not destiny.
herxuk- are you saying that it would be good to take linolenic acid?
oxygenbabe-thanks for the tips on the supplements. Where is a good place to order them from? I'm going to try them.
larkspur-Thanks for your reply. It helps and puts it into a better perspective that it just means recovery will be trickier rather than impossible. Have you read Mold Warriors? I'm going to get that book.
jkmmc09-You have the arthritic gene too. Me too. Thank you for telling me it's not hopeless. How are you doing in your treatment?
lymemomtoo-It must be hard to watch your daughter go through this. The more I read about cholesteramine the more afraid I am of it. I herx badly.
My handle is based on my irish ancestry (and scottish also). It might be more common in the british isle genes.
Posts: 65 | From CA | Registered: Jun 2008
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
I have this genotype too.
Does anyone else with this genotype feel like whenever you are on medications for tick diseases, you are incredibly fatigued the whole time.....like you are just so much MORE disabled now that you are being treated?
That is the case for me! I can't be treated "seriously" without feeling horrible the whole time.......not just Herxes, but just in bed with terrible fatigue.
Also, I have a good amount of British and Irish in my family history.....so maybe it is related to that. I know of at least a few genetic diseases attributed to that area of the world, like they say dysautonomia is linked to that ancestry. There was another one I read about the other day linked to the British that involves detoxing, among many other horrible things....you would probably know if you had it because your skin does weird things.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4715
posted
I believe that any toxin binder is going to grab some vitamins and nutrients but what can you do? it's better than having the neurotoxins recirculate into your bloodstream.
I also have a mold gene and the cholestyramine helps that, too. It works for me; no stomach issues, I take Mag citrate for the constipation.
There is no cookie cutter answer for everyone but I think it's best to let each of us make our own decision what's best for our own bodies.
I think the other toxin binders not mentioned are Welchol and Chlorella (Sp?). Some people also use charcoal which I know nothing about!
Yes, ANY toxin binder should be taken a couple hours away from supplements. I kept it 4 hours away from abx because that was the most important thing to stay in my body at the time.
Bottom line: It does not make it impossible to get better and it's excellent to know if you have the gene so you can add the toxin binder into your regimen. By no means is it a scarlett letter!
posted
hoosiers51-Yes! I know what you mean about the fatigue. It's awful. I can barely function. I'm supposed to be at a family gathering tomorrow and Monday and I don't know how I'm going to do it.
You might want to look into having your MSH level looked at. Mine was tested and turned out to be very low. A low level can result in the kind of symptoms we're experiencing.
Who knows though what part is the herx?
Clarissa-thank you again for your words of hope. It's so strange because this time of day (west coast time) always brings with it a sense of hopelessness and depression. I don't know why but I'm beginning to think it's biological.
I wonder about charcoal. I think I will try to find some chlorella. I've read good things about that.
Is that a picture of your dog? He or she is adorable!
Posts: 65 | From CA | Registered: Jun 2008
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So bottom line , you are going to produce a lot of Arachidonic Acid, which we have to get rid of via the Cox Enzymes.
I would avoid Linolenic Acid, ( In Omega 3 ) and Linoleic Acid ( In Omega 6 ).
This is what Marnie's post say's above .
My book say's Arachidonic Acid ,( Prostaglandin Series 2 ) Is converted by the body from Omega 6 family.
As I mentioned above, Prostaglandins , can Cause or Limit Inflammation. ( from my Book )
I am troubled with a great deal of inflammation with the Toxin Load. And have to resort to as low a dose as possible of Ibuprofen. I have been avoiding the Omega's because of that.
Marnie may come back to post , to confirm this , as I read In her post above.
Posts: 153 | From England | Registered: Jun 2008
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Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4715
posted
Celtic: Yes, thank you, that's one of my two dogs. He is a cutie, eh?
I also have 2 bunnies. My animals make me smile daily.
Fatigue: You might want to try Xango Mangosteen juice. Lymetoo can lead you in the right direction for the genuine product!
posted
I'm very confused - I thought Omega 6's were good for us
-------------------- "We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us" - e.m. forster Posts: 921 | From PA | Registered: Jan 2004
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Could anyone explain some of those above posts? I take Cod Liver Oil everyday...is that bad because it has omegas 3 and 6?
[ 27. July 2008, 03:27 AM: Message edited by: Hoosiers51 ]
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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lymemomtooo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5396
posted
I can't seem to grasp all of what Marnie was saying but I think she said that EPA and DHA were ok to take.
My daughter has major trouble swalling them and has started something called Fisol so that she can swallow the pills. Not sure if it is as good. lmt
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Marnie say's above. CLA is ok and is good. DHA and EPA might be OK too, but not ALA ( Alpha Linolenic Acid. ) Cod Liver Oil is not Omega 6.
I think It is DHA and EPA, look on back of your container. I don't think this convert's to Arachidonic Acid , ( which Marnie seam's to be telling us above, can trigger a Pro Inflammatory response )
I know It can be very confusing , as we are all trying to do all the right thing's for our body's, and to beat this thing.
Larkspur. According to my book, ( I have 2 that both say, ) We consume too much Omega 6 in our diet's and that we don't need to supplement . They both say, ( too much can cause Inflammatory disorder's )
Remember, I am learning, just like you . I can only go by what I read. Then try to work out what is the best course for me. Like we all do.
Posts: 153 | From England | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Oops - I meant omega 3's - yes, I know omega 6 is bad
I am currently reading a book my LLMD recommended that has a whole chapter on Eicosanoids and Arachidonic Acid -
I am still trying to make sense of it all but I think if I read the chapter again I'll get it..it's pretty simply written
It is called the Sugar Control Bible and Cookbook by Dr. Jacqueline Paltis - I got it on Amazon if anyone is interested
It really explains all this well, but I'm having trouble paraphrasing what she says at the moment
-------------------- "We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us" - e.m. forster Posts: 921 | From PA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Larkspur. I look at it this way, if our body's were in a normal state, these thing's wouldn't make much difference. Trouble is it's in a diseased state, which is a whole new ball game.
Prostaglandins are involved in this, maybe Google could tell us more. ????? For me, too much inflammation is damaging, and probably another toxin , I am having to deal with.
These toxin's hang around on me, far too long as it is.
Posts: 153 | From England | Registered: Jun 2008
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
This is confusing... Which fatty acids are OK & which are to be avoided?
The essential fatty acids start with the short chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (SC-PUFA):
ω-3 fatty acids: α-Linolenic acid or ALA (18:3)
ω-6 fatty acids: Linoleic acid or LA (18:2)
These two fatty acids cannot be synthesised by humans, as humans lack the desaturase enzymes required for their production.
They form the starting point for the creation of longer and more desaturated fatty acids, which are also referred to as long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (LC-PUFA):
ω-3 fatty acids: eicosapentaenoic acid or EPA (20:5) docosahexaenoic acid or DHA (22:6)
ω-6 fatty acids: gamma-linolenic acid or GLA (18:3) dihomo-gamma-linolenic acid or DGLA (20:3) arachidonic acid or AA (20:4)
ω-9 fatty acids are not essential in humans, because humans generally possess all the enzymes required for their synthesis. Exceptions do occur in older people or people with a liver problem that do not completely produce a sufficient amount,[citation needed] and hence many supplement companies market Omega 3-6-9 blends.
Essentiality
Between 1930 and 1950, arachidonic acid and linolenic acid were termed 'essential' because each was more or less able to meet the growth requirements of rats given fat-free diets.
Further research has shown that human metabolism requires both ω-3 and ω-6 fatty acids. To some extent, any ω-3 and any ω-6 can relieve the worst symptoms of fatty acid deficiency.
Particular fatty acids are still needed at critical life stages (e.g. lactation) and in some disease states. In nonscientific writing, common usage is that the term essential fatty acid comprises all the ω-3 or -6 fatty acids.[4]
Authoritative sources include the whole families, without qualification.[5][6][7]
The human body can make some long-chain PUFA (arachidonic acid, EPA and DHA) from lineolate or lineolinate.
Traditionally speaking the LC-PUFA are not essential. See (Cunnane 2003)[8] for a discussion of the current status of the term 'essential'.
Because the LC-PUFA are sometimes required, they may be considered "conditionally essential", or not essential to healthy adults.
Mary G. Enig has pointed out numerous studies showing the need for omega-3 and omega-6 essential fatty acids in mammalians[9]
A 2005 study has shown evidence that gamma-linolenic acid, GLA, a product of omega-6, has been shown to inhibit the breast cancer promoting gene of Her2/neu.[10]
Biologist Ray Peat has pointed out flaws in the studies purportedly showing the need for n-3 and n-6 fats.
He notes that so-called EFA deficiencies have sometimes been reversed by adding B vitamins or a fat-free liver extract to the diet. In his view, 'the optional dietary level of the "essential fatty acids" might be close to zero, if other dietary factors were also optimized.' [1]
Essential fatty acids should not be confused with essential oils, which are "essential" in the sense of being a concentrated essence.
Food sources
Almost all the polyunsaturated fat in the human diet is from EFA. Some of the food sources of ω-3 and ω-6 fatty acids are fish and shellfish, flaxseed (linseed), hemp oil, soya oil, canola (rapeseed) oil, chia seeds, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, leafy vegetables, and walnuts.
Essential fatty acids play a part in many metabolic processes, and there is evidence to suggest that low levels of essential fatty acids, or the wrong balance of types among the essential fatty acids, may be a factor in a number of illnesses, including osteoporosis.[11]
Plant sources of ω-3 contain neither eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) nor docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).
The human body can (and in case of a purely vegetarian diet often must, unless certain algae or supplements derived from them are consumed) convert α-linolenic acid (ALA) to EPA and subsequently DHA.
This however requires more metabolic work, which is thought to be the reason that the absorption of essential fatty acids is much greater from animal rather than plant sources (see Fish and plants as a source of Omega-3 for more).
The IUPAC Lipid HandbookPDF (370 KiB) provides a very large and detailed listing of fat contents of animal and vegetable fats, including ω-3 and -6 oils. The National Institutes of Health's EFA Education group publishes 'Essential Fats in Food Oils.'
This lists 40 common oils, more tightly focused on EFAs and sorted by n-6:3 ratio. Stuchlik and Zak, 'Vegetable Lipids as Components of Functional Food'PDF (139 KiB) list notable vegetable sources of EFAs as well as commentary and an overview of the biosynthetic pathways involved.
Users can interactively search at Nutrition Data for the richest food sources of particular EFAs or other nutrients.
Careful readers will note that these sources are not in excellent agreement. EFA content of vegetable sources varies with cultivation conditions.
Animal sources vary widely, both with the animal's feed and that the EFA makeup varies markedly with fats from different body parts.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077
posted
My two cents: I herx badly with most meds I take except for doxy and ceftin. I'm trying zith again 1/4 tablet and working up. My grandmother was 1/2 English.
In the past I've done charcoal tablet (2). It's cheap and it works.
The other day I did the whole lemon/olive oil thing. Sour, but it did seem to help.
In the recent Public Health Alert newsletter there was an interview with Dr. Teitelbaum. In the sidebar Q & A he mentioned that the cholestr...treatment for toxins only worked in 9% of his patients. His focus was to get to the cause of the biotoxins and eliminate them. (Easier said than done.)
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Omega 6 Linoleic Acid I Gamma Linolenic Acid GLA I Prostaglandin Series 1
Dihomogamma Linolenic Acid I Prostaglandin Series 2 Arachidonic Acid
OMEGA 3 Alpha Linolenic Acid I Eicosapentaenoic Acid ( EPA ) I Docosahexaeonic Acid ( DHA )
I Prostaglandin Series 3
Sorry , Didn't come out right, had to try again. Hope this comes out right. Or may get thrown of forum.
Posts: 153 | From England | Registered: Jun 2008
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
quote:Originally posted by Hoosiers51: I have this genotype too.
Does anyone else with this genotype feel like whenever you are on medications for tick diseases, you are incredibly fatigued the whole time.....like you are just so much MORE disabled now that you are being treated?
*********************
Yes I feel like this. I think my LLMD had the right idea but actually ruined me because I am worse now then when I started treatment.
Ive been in treatment for 4 years. That is the case for me! I can't be treated "seriously" without feeling horrible the whole time.......not just Herxes, but just in bed with terrible fatigue.
Also, I have a good amount of British and Irish in my family history.....so maybe it is related to that. I know of at least a few genetic diseases attributed to that area of the world, like they say dysautonomia is linked to that ancestry. There was another one I read about the other day linked to the British that involves detoxing, among many other horrible things....you would probably know if you had it because your skin does weird things. [/QB]
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
A theory of mine...
Both DHEA (cortisol's counter) and acetylcholine levels are related to our intelligence level.
I think person's with the HLA gene type, do not produce encough DHEA (DHEAS is the storage form), so to "counter", these persons
produce more acetylcholine.
That does put them in more danger re: lyme, since Bb needs choline as a component in one of its cell walls.
Bb can NOT breakdown acetylcholine, but counts on us to do that.
We make the neurotransmitters, break them down, make them, break them down, very very fast all the time.
I'm pretty sure Bb can't handle sulfur...which is the "S" on DHEAS. Bb replaced all its Fe-S enzymes with ones that use Mn. We know Fe can destroy Bb...sulfur too?
Bb looks to trigger cortisol which is supposed to be in balance with DHEA.
From what I've read...MSM, vitamin C, and 1,3 beta glucans (Host Defense, the good mushrooms) raise DHEAS levels.
BTW...if you look at the STRUCTURE of the Omega 3s and Omega 6s they are nearly identical except for one very small fact...the location of a double carbon bond is in a different place.
Which completely changes HOW they work.
Pretty amazing.
NOTE!!!
NO raising of DHEA/DHEAS (via supps) until this hormone level is checked first and your doctor sees the test results.
[ 11. August 2008, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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I also take Colace, because it helps with the constipation it gives me.
It definitely makes a very positive difference in the way I feel.
As well, my herxing isn't near as bad.
I hope this helps you.
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Add me to the list with the dreaded genotype too. I read Mold Warriors and highly recommend it to anyone having difficulty with lyme treatments and/or losing weight.
I tried Cholestyramine but had severe diarrhea from it. I went off it and still have it but not sure it was the Omnicef I was on or what.
Going to see my integrative doc this Wednesday and discuss my options on what to do next. I am willing to try the Cholestyramine once again.
Posts: 261 | From NW Pa ~ Crawford County | Registered: Oct 2007
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Don't feel too badly. Probably nearly everyone here has a similarly bad genetic make-up or we would likely not be sick with chronic Lyme.
I interpret it as a message that you should focus on detox as much or more than killing.
If someone does not have some mutation in these genes, they likely would not know they were ill or would recover uneventfully with antibiotic treatment.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077
posted
A post further up mentioned avoiding alpha lipoic acid. I do that already because it makes me feel worse. I also can't take Corvalen D-Ribose because I don't think my body can handle the extra sugar molecule. I have British Isles ancestry, too.
I haven't been tested, but I bet because my intolerance of meds and build up of toxins that I have this genotype as well.
OTC activated charcoal tablets (cheap) help somewhat.
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
It looks like everyone's been tested for this who knows they have it.
My LLMD told me he thought I was one. So, I wonder what are the symptoms that would give him that idea?
I took the cholestyramine(sp) for 1 or 2 months (memory fails me) and lost 25 pounds. The next appt., my doctor told me he was wrong and took me off it. So, I wonder what he saw that let him know that he was wrong in his assumption?
I never did get tested for that gene.
Posts: 552 | From New Mexico, USA | Registered: May 2007
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
What's confusing is the the Body Bio (The Detoxx Book written about biotoxin illness) is saying to up PC and to take omega 6/3 at a 4:1 ratio. This is for the health of the cell wall.
posted
nikkib: What have you done to make that happen???
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
BUmp regarding the 4:1 ratio
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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karenl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17753
posted
I also hate this talking about that bad gene. After some time you find a way to live well with it. Hydroxy B12 helped me a lot and at the moment I love lemons - four a day. Maybe this is the way for me at the moment to deal with it.
Try mold and parasite cleanse and stay away from pesticides and chemicals as much as possible. Also petrochemicals like creams ...
Generally try to avoid toxic situations.
Posts: 1834 | From US | Registered: Oct 2008
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IckyTicky
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21466
posted
So...if you have this genotype then you have higher levels of inflammation?
I wonder if that is what I have...my CRP was 57 at it's highest!
Why hasn't my LLMD tested me for this? Is this something most LLMD's test for???
-------------------- IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+ Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF. Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme. Posts: 1014 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009
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I could not tolerate cholestyramine it made me so gassy and constipated.
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I can't be treated "seriously" without feeling horrible the whole time.......not just Herxes, but just in bed with terrible fatigue.
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