Is taking Rifampin and Tetracycline, at the same time, a good combination of antibiotics to take to treat bartonella effectively?
As you can see, in my signature line here, that's what I'm taking now, so it would be very helpful for me to know the answer to that and more, thus why I'm asking all of the questions I am.
Are there better combinations of antibiotics you can take to effectively treat bartonella?
If so, what are they? How much of them? For how long?
Would it be wise, as well as safe, for me to take the HH herb, which Dr. S refers to in his new bartonella book, along with the Rifampin and Tetracycline antibiotics I'm currently taking to effectively treat my bartonella?
If so, where can I find the best priced HH?
What's the maximum dosage of HH, which the majority of people, who have taken or are currently taking it, have found to effectively treat bartonella the best?
How long must the HH be taken, along with combinations of antibiotics, to even consider having effectively treated, but most importantly, completely gotten rid of having, bartonella?
Are there any combinations of antibiotics you can take, along with HH, which are better than others at effectively treating, but most importantly, completely getting rid of having, bartonella?
If so, what are they? How much of them? For how long? How much of HH should be taken with them? For how long?
Are there any other things, besides HH, herbal or otherwise, and outside of antibiotics, which can be taken to effectively treat bartonella?
If so, what are they, both individually or combined? How much of them? How long?
What's their success rate taking them individually and/or combined? Compared to taking HH? Combinations of antibiotics? HH and combinations of antibiotics? HH, combinations of antibiotics, and them individually or combined?
I understand Levaquin is used alot to treat bartonella, but since I was "floxed", by taking it, back in mid-2006, I can never take it, nor any other fluoroquinolone antibiotic, which it is, ever again, without suffering even more severe side effects, some of which could be life threatening for me, should I choose to take it.
Given the severity of my reaction to taking Levaquin, I would never even consider taking it, nor any other fluoroquinolone antibiotic, ever gain, even as a last resort, especially knowing it could be life threatening for me, should I choose to take it, if that tells you just how bad it feels to be "floxed", from taking a fluoroquinolone antibiotic.
In comparison, after having to live many months with the severity of the side effects of being "floxed", from taking Levaquin, for a really bad case of pneumonia I had, at the time, treating my lyme disease and coinfections definitely seems alot easier now, albiet it's still very hard though.
Considering bartonella is hard to effectively treat and completely get rid of, I sure hope and pray, just by me never being able to take any fluoroquinolone antibiotic, ever again, even to treat it, I can still somehow, someway manage to completely get rid of it, hopefully, not too far away, in the future.
Despite me not being able to treat my bartonella, by taking a fluoroquininolone antibiotic, I can still completely get rid of it, someday, can't I?
I hope the answer is yes.
If it is, then please tell me how to do it!
If it isn't, then please tell me what to do about it!
I apologize for all of the questions, but I've been asking myself them, for quite some time now, thus I'd like to have some solid answers to them, just to ease my mind, if possible, so I know exactly what to follow through with, in order to do the very best I can to either get rid of or learn to live with having it.
Thanks!
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
I'm taking Rifampin and Doxy right now, but I'd be interested in adding in the HH as well. So, bump this up, in hopes of getting some needed answers.
-------------------- Craig Posts: 207 | From Tallahassee, Florida | Registered: Nov 2007
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I am on 300mg Rifampicin, 500mg Levaquin, Proton Pump Inhibiter, 400mg Flagyl per day and started taking Olive Leaf and Grapeseed Extract and detoxing with Green Tea. Also am exercising but can be tiring. I sleep well.
Been doing this for about 6 months (been on antibiotics in total 1 year, was on others to start with) but still get the brain fog, tiredness, aching muscles, tender heels and balls of feet, sore shins/calves, crawling and twitching (which magnesium helps).
I have been through some big herxes and continue to see die off, but it never goes away completely. I don't understand how some people actually get rid of bartonella, it feels impossible to me.
Posts: 74 | From United Kingdom | Registered: Dec 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
quote: Is taking Rifampin and Tetracycline, at the same time, a good combination of antibiotics to take to treat bartonella effectively?
Yes it's a useful combination. Add Grapefruit Seed Extract, or Tindizdole or Flagyl and you really have a knock out punch. I would use the GSE for safety. Remember to get monthly blood testing for the Rifampin. WBC and Liver Panel. Minocycline is also a good combination.
quote: As you can see, in my signature line here, that's what I'm taking now, so it would be very helpful for me to know the answer to that and more, thus why I'm asking all of the questions I am.
Are there better combinations of antibiotics you can take to effectively treat bartonella?
Sort of, but not really. Bactrim, Levaquin combined with a cycline are useful. If you want to be "extremely" aggressive against Bartonella, then Bactrim and Levaquin together in combination can be extremely violent. High risk however, but extremely aggressive.
It would be wise to go with your current routine, use 600mg per day of Rifampin, combine it with Coptis and HH Capsules from Dr. Zhang, combine the Grapefruit Seed Extract from Nutribiotics, and add a proton pump inhibitor like Nexium. Take it away from the Tetracycline.
Rifampin is effective again Lyme and Bartonella
Minocycline is effective against Lyme and "potentially" against Bartonella, depending on the strain.
Amantadine is safer than Plaquenil (Not that Plaquenil is high risk), but it can help assist both Minocycline and Rifampin to get deeper into tissues. Minocycline is an extracellular and intracullear as Rifampin is both as well.
GSE is effective against a wide variety of microbes, but it's been shown in a study by a credible researcher (and his wife) Brorson, that GSE erodes the cyst form of borrelia.
HH is effective against both Lyme and Bartonella.
Coptis is effective against both Lyme and Bartonella.
Include a multivitamin like ALIVE, made of whole food. Use ALA, and NAC to help detoxification.
Cost:
GSE is cheap, ALIVE is cheap, NAC and ALA are all cheap. Combined, per month, you'd spend less than 20 dollars on those, since the bottles last so long.
Coptis and HH should run about 100 to 150 per month.
Minocycline, Tetracycline, Rifampin, Doxy -- all should be covered by most insurance carriers depending on the diagnosis and doctor prescribing.
quote: If so, what are they? How much of them? For how long?
Tetracycline: 750 or 1gm x 2 Minocycline: 100 or 200mg x 2 (200 is very aggressive, and uncommon) Doxycycline: (400mg to 600mg x 2) GSE (Individual dependent, 15 drops is standard once tolerated and can be used consistently ALA: 300mg x 2 NAC: 600mg x 2 HH: 1 capsule x 3 Coptis 2 capsules x 3
Duration: 6-12 months, possibly longer. No rests, no breaks.
quote: Would it be wise, as well as safe, for me to take the HH herb, which Dr. S refers to in his new bartonella book, along with the Rifampin and Tetracycline antibiotics I'm currently taking to effectively treat my bartonella?
Yes. Include Coptis as well.
quote: If so, where can I find the best priced HH?
Through an LLMD you see, however most don't sell it. If not, the best you can hope for that I know of is Hepapro. Shipping and pricing can be expensive, but it's worth the money.
quote: What's the maximum dosage of HH, which the majority of people, who have taken or are currently taking it, have found to effectively treat bartonella the best?
I already covered this. It is subject to change, as research is changing. It has been suggested that doubling or even tripling the current dose is appropriate, but pricing prevents most people and I won't be doing that myself. The standard Zhang recommendation is appropriate in my eyes.
quote: How long must the HH be taken, along with combinations of antibiotics, to even consider having effectively treated, but most importantly, completely gotten rid of having, bartonella?
Already covered. A possible switch from Rifampin to Bactrim and or Levaquin is possible in the future. If so the dose is:
Bactrim: 800/160mg x 2 Levaquin: 500mg x 1
quote: Are there any combinations of antibiotics you can take, along with HH, which are better than others at effectively treating, but most importantly, completely getting rid of having, bartonella?
Nothing influences the HH, the combinations I listed are the best I know of, unless you manage by miracle to get your hands also on IV Tigecycline, a new antibiotic, that unlike Tetracycline, and Doxycycline is 100 times more powerful, and borrelia is unable to decrease it's internal concentration, thus killing it much more quickly and effectively.
quote: If so, what are they? How much of them? For how long? How much of HH should be taken with them? For how long?
Already covered this.
quote: Are there any other things, besides HH, herbal or otherwise, and outside of antibiotics, which can be taken to effectively treat bartonella?
Already covered this.
quote: If so, what are they, both individually or combined? How much of them? How long?
Covered
quote: What's their success rate taking them individually and/or combined? Compared to taking HH? Combinations of antibiotics? HH and combinations of antibiotics? HH, combinations of antibiotics, and them individually or combined?
The combination I gave, including (possibly) some Cowden herbs like Cumanda, Samento, Banderol would increase effectiveness, but some of these can't be taken with other medicines I believe. That you would have to investigate. I personally wouldn't overdo it all at once, since the routine I've laid out is already viscious.
quote: I understand Levaquin is used alot to treat bartonella, but since I was "floxed", by taking it, back in mid-2006, I can never take it, nor any other fluoroquinolone antibiotic, which it is, ever again, without suffering even more severe side effects, some of which could be life threatening for me, should I choose to take it.
If you were allergic or had debilitating side effects, it would be wise to stay away and go with Bactrim instead if you wanted to get more aggressive later. I think it might be necessary down the road, but also possibly not.
quote: Given the severity of my reaction to taking Levaquin, I would never even consider taking it, nor any other fluoroquinolone antibiotic, ever gain, even as a last resort, especially knowing it could be life threatening for me, should I choose to take it, if that tells you just how bad it feels to be "floxed", from taking a fluoroquinolone antibiotic.
Understood.
quote: In comparison, after having to live many months with the severity of the side effects of being "floxed", from taking Levaquin, for a really bad case of pneumonia I had, at the time, treating my lyme disease and coinfections definitely seems alot easier now, albiet it's still very hard though.
Considering bartonella is hard to effectively treat and completely get rid of, I sure hope and pray, just by me never being able to take any fluoroquinolone antibiotic, ever again, even to treat it, I can still somehow, someway manage to completely get rid of it, hopefully, not too far away, in the future.
Despite me not being able to treat my bartonella, by taking a fluoroquininolone antibiotic, I can still completely get rid of it, someday, can't I?
Last sentence, yes, you can kill it. The routine laid out will do that.
quote: I hope the answer is yes.
Yes
quote: If it is, then please tell me how to do it!
Already did.
quote: If it isn't, then please tell me what to do about it!
Kick it's a-s-s...seabass.
quote: I apologize for all of the questions, but I've been asking myself them, for quite some time now, thus I'd like to have some solid answers to them, just to ease my mind, if possible, so I know exactly what to follow through with, in order to do the very best I can to either get rid of or learn to live with having it.
Thanks! [Smile]
You now have some solid answers. If you want to get more aggressive, add exercise, infared sauna, -- and if detoxification is a problem, Coffee Enemas (I doubt you'll need to do that).
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
quote:Can someone explain HH a little more.
I am on 300mg Rifampicin, 500mg Levaquin, Proton Pump Inhibiter, 400mg Flagyl per day and started taking Olive Leaf and Grapeseed Extract and detoxing with Green Tea. Also am exercising but can be tiring. I sleep well.
That's a good routine. A very strong routine actually. Stay on the Levaquin a total of 3 months, stop, continue Rifampin and add HH or Coptis if you like. Your routine otherwise is strong. As I mentioned to Jen, take what you'd like from that routine. If the Levaquin doesn't seem to take a big bite out of the Bartonella like organism (If it's not BH), then try Bactrim.
quote: Been doing this for about 6 months (been on antibiotics in total 1 year, was on others to start with) but still get the brain fog, tiredness, aching muscles, tender heels and balls of feet, sore shins/calves, crawling and twitching (which magnesium helps).
I have been through some big herxes and continue to see die off, but it never goes away completely. I don't understand how some people actually get rid of bartonella, it feels impossible to me.
You'll get there. It's a long process, just like with Lyme for some people.
The HH is a chinese herb which has commonly been used in Chinese Medicine for thousands of years. It's a broad spectrum antimicrobial, and has been shown in studies -- which you can read on Pubmed -- as being effective.
It is a non-toxic herb -- it's full name being Houttuynia cordata THUNB, with it's main active contituent being decanoyl acetaldehyde. The chinese found it very effective against leptospirosis, a spirochettal infection.
It also shows activity against fungal infections, including the dreaded candida albicans. It also enhances the immune system, has antiinflammatory properties. It has a very short half-life, thus must be taken consistently, hence the 3 times per day dose.
Hope that answers some of your questions, and yes, once again it's very very low toxicity makes it an excellent candidate for adding to your routine.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
Thanks Metallic Blue for the words of encouragement and wisdom you have.
Levaquin definitely had a big effect - the biggest herx ever so much that i thought i had been floxed thought i was allergic to it etc etc.
I took a break and somehow could tolerate it over time same happened with Flagyl, could never take it but now i can. So i must be making good progress its just very frustrating.
How do i get my hands on HH and Coptis i would be interested in adding this to my regime
Posts: 74 | From United Kingdom | Registered: Dec 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
You may possibly get another patient to help you get them if they see one of the doctors who prescribes them, but for consistency sake, Hepapro.com, is the company which Dr. Zhang chose to allow to process and distribute the formulas he's been using on his own patients.
If you read Dr. Zhang's book, you can also contact him directly and he'll do a free phone consultation with you, to help make sure you get on track and that you're using the appropriate medications and other supplements to support the overall routine.
Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine is the name of his book. You can buy it used probably on Amazon or Half.com
Here is the actual routine that Dr. Zhang recommends:
For those with Chronic Lyme Disease without co-infections, he recommends:
If the herxheimer reaction is debilitating, he recommends reducing the dose to half and gradually building normal. It is wise to consider adding AI #3 1 capsule x 3 to reduce the Herxheimer symptoms.
If the reaction isn't to rough the patient should continue at standard dose.
Later into treatment, the patient, depending on their individual symptoms, may wish to add Cordyceps 2 capsules x 3 if severe fatigue is the issue.
For Fibromyalgia or Vasculitis (Abnormal Brain SPECT), or MS like symptoms, he would recommend Ai # 3 2 caps morning, 1 cap in the afternoon and 2 caps in the evening, and to continue this for 1 to 3 months, as needed for symptoms and then discontinue at 3 months.
For cognition, memory loss, mental foggginess, or concentration problems as the main symptoms, add Puerarin capsules 2 x 3
This is done while doing the standard protocol, assuming only a Lyme Disease infection of a chronic nature being present.
If the patient continues and has a positive treatment response, they should continue through the 6-12 months (longer is likely better in my opinion) and then they stop.
For those with Lyme w/coinfections involving Babesia, the routine is slightly different for the first 40-80 days. Instead of using HH, Artemisia Capsule 1 x 3, Allicin 2 x 3 and Circulation P 1 x 3 are used instead. Once the 80 days are up, they move onto the standard protocol I already discussed which is HH, Allicin, and Circulation P.
If after 6 months, the treatment response isn't all that effective, a second line of defense is used.
The standard protocol is adjusted.
Coptis 2 x 3 or R-5081 2 x 3 may be used in place of the Allicin. So Allicin stops, and one of the two herbs above is used instead.
Continue using HH capsules 1 x 3, Circulation P and or based on the practiioners desire, apply antibiotics into the routine concurrently.
Treatment should be successful at this point, with the addition of antibiotics and the change of the herbs.
This is his entire protocol. I am jumping to the end of the line by adding Coptis, HH, Art and antibiotics, along with supplements all at once. Others do not have to do that.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Just to add something.People that had BLO or BART before LYME they will strugle and get longer treatment as in my case ...who knows how long .
Also the one that feel that their frontal lobe is hurting ( due to bart /BLO ) than 15 HH capsules daily keep it in check.
Tried myself to lower the dosage 10 and 5 the next day , felt right away the symtoms comming up.LEft knee , digestive track , throught , ears preassure than on the third day eye and frontal lobe involment and my numbness came back.
Same thing when I stoped LEVAQUIN and same thing after I lowered or paused a day from HH capsules..
If you can not take LEVAQUIN than 15 HH and banderol on top of ANTBIOTICS will keep it in check.
YEs it isv ery exspensive.But I can not drop below 15 HH capsules as I relapse.I know now.So each of us is diferent .And we need to adjust the dosage based on how long we had it and how much the load is.
I am not a doctor but that is what I found out.For me ...stoping lowering or pausing just for a little the treatment of BLO makes me worst.
I have lowered the drugs or stoped LYME drugs or herbs or paused babesia drugs or herbs ...but can not deal with lowering BLO stuff I am taking as it multiplys so FAST is unbeilivable ......
IT IS THE WORST BUG EVER!!!!!IT reproduces so fast.That is why people that have LYME and get that strain fall sick right away as that is the reason that makes LYME active and NEUROLYME.( my opinion).
So take care ...I have been chasing this monster since 14 months and still am and is still very coslty ...but I can not stop as I will loose the entire ground I GAINED.
I also use BANDEROL reached 250 drops..but can not go higher ...
By the way 250 drops BANDEROL stoped the numbness on my head and in my face yesterday right after taking it ...while drugs could not do it.I had a day before a break to take HIGHER DOSAGES of probiotics...and relapsed in 3 days B/c lowered HH capsules from 15 to 10 to 5 and to nothing .
I know how much my body can handle...to keep that balance ( thorugh trials and errors of dosages ) I have found that 15 works for me and I do not want to loose the ground.ALSO DETOX and suporting your liver is major...AND I AM ON STRONG detox protokoll.
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Once again, you've surprised me with the vast amount of knowledge you have about tick borne illnesses, which you've so willingly shared with me!
Thank you very much again for all of the detailed information you've given me, which I can use to help myself on my journey back to wellness!
I sincerely appreciate it, as always!
I'm reading Dr. Zhang's book now.
It shouldn't be too much longer, until I'm finished reading it, especially considering it's not a very big book, albiet I find it still contains alot of very valuable information, based upon thumbing through and what I've read of it, thus far.
My finishing reading it is dependent upon whatever free time I have to devote to that and I have a vast amount of a variety of things I'll be forced to have to deal with very soon, which are going to require most all of my time and attention, and for an unknown perid of time.
After I've finished taking care of the things, which I must, finish reading the rest of his book, and have reached a point where I can further devise, then follow a more structured and aggressive treatment plan, based upon the information you've given me, as well as what's contained in his book, I will certainly follow through with as much of it as I possiby can.
Since I have a very limited amount of resources, developing a cost effective plan is definitely a priority for me, so I'll, without a doubt, have to take that into account, when I devise it, based upon all of the information, which I've been able to obtain.
Thanks again for everything!
You're a true gem, indeed!
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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Thank you very much for sharing some additional valuable information with me, as well as your experience and current situation!
I sincerely appreciate your willingness to help me, based upon what you know!
I will certainly keep in mind everything you've told me, as I further devise a more structered and aggressive treatment plan, which I feel like I can follow.
Best wishes to you with your treatment!
I truly hope what you're doing will allow you to overcome your ailments!
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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Thanks for sharing your medicine information, but especially for showing an interest in helping the both of us learn more!
I hope you've been able to garner enough, from the information, which has been shared here, thus far, to like you said, get some needed answers!
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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Thanks for sharing your treatment information, as well as your experiences with your treatments.
Thanks for asking some good questions about HH too, so the both of us can learn more about it.
I hope you've found the responses here, thus far, as valuable as I have.
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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pamoisondelune
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11846
posted
About HH--- it is an easy-to-grow plant, Houttuynia, that i plan to grow in pots indoors.
It should never be planted in your garden, i've read, because it's terribly invasive, worse than bamboo. You'll never get rid of it and it kills other plants.
The information i need is, how do the raw plant leaves correspond to pill doses?
For such an easy-to-grow plant, i want to figure out how to avoid the high pill price. ---pamois.
Posts: 1226 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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mojo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9309
posted
Bump - this is an excellent thread - I've read it many times and put it in my favorites.
Now let's pray my co-infection testing is accurate. I get my results Monday!
thanks for the great thread.
Posts: 1761 | From USA | Registered: May 2006
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
Mojo .If I was relied on Lab Work I would have been DEAD by now.
Read Dr J S in FL book and you will lern if you have bart.For me muscle testing has showed the activity of all coinfections.
Without it ...the Dr would have said IS ALL LYME.
No mine is mostly BLO /Mucoplasma ..EVEN THOUGH i HAVE THE REST OF COINFECTIONS.
So my treatment has chencged based on my coinfectins , layers...that I have been peeling off ...since 14 months..and still do with all coinfecitons contributing to it!
So lab works have been just a piece of my puzle...Do not rely on them completly!
That is my eksp and you can use your own judgment!
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
I don't think I've differentiated between Bartonella and BLO here.
Bartonella as we presently understand it, is not the same "Bartonella-Like-Organism" that Dr. Burrascano talks about.
Many patients here, when speaking about BLO, often say "Bartonella." And sometimes, people who say "Bartonella" just flat plain mean... Bartonella, like that of Quintana and Hensalae. These are strains that most laboratories test for. These strains of Bartonella, respond entirely differently from the other type of "Bartonella-like-organism" that people are finding on the Fry Lab Smears.
It is important to understand the labels and to differentiate them. Currently no one knows what the Bartonella-like-organism is. We don't even know if it's actually Bartonella as a species, nevermind a strain.
So with this in-mind, be aware that the treatments that work on the commonly understood Cat-Scratch, or "Bartonella H." or Q (Trench fever) or some of the others are not entirely effective on BLO. For example the cyclines like Tetracycline, and Macrolide antibiotics like Zithromax and Biaxen, appear to be almost worthless on patients with the unidentified BLO."
The herbs used and the medications I've recommended have been based on BLO, or Bartonella Like Organism.
Here are the strains of Bartonella that we currently are aware of:
B. alsatica B. bacilliformis B. birtlesii B. bovis B. capreoli B. clarridgeiae B. doshiae B. elizabethae B. grahamii B. henselae B. koehlerae B.muris B. peromysci B. quintana B. rochalimae B. schoenbuchii B. talpae B. taylorii B. tribocorum B. vinsonii spp. arupensis B. vinsonii spp. berkhoffii B. vinsonii spp. vinsonii B. washoensis
Treatment is dependent on which strain of Bartonella is found in a given patient. While Bartonella species are susceptible to a number of standard antibiotics in vitro--macrolides and tetracycline, for example--the efficacy of antibiotic treatment in immunocompetent individuals is uncertain.[8]
[This information comes from Wikipedia, but the references are valid. Take note of that last sentence. "Immunocompetent is uncertain."
Immunocompromised patients should be treated with antibiotics because they are particularly susceptible to systemic disease and bacteremia. Drugs of particular effectiveness include trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole, gentamicin, ciprofloxacin, and rifampin; B. henselae is generally resistant to penicillin, amoxicillin, and nafcillin.[8]
Notice they didn't mention Levaquin. Levaquin has demonstrated a greater effectiveness clinically on BLO, but these other drugs work well for a variety of strains of Bartonella. So there is some sort of cross-over going on with this new strain or perhaps an entirely different bacteria, likely Mycoplasma.
If it is a different bacteria, this "BLO" than a Bartonella species, it is suspected to be a form of Mycoplasma, or of that genus.
Now Mycoplasma in general as a result lacking a cell wall, they are unaffected by some antibiotics such as penicillin or other beta-lactam antibiotics that target cell wall synthesis. People who thought they had Bartonella, may in fact have a species of Mycoplasma causing their illness -- but because of the poor understanding in both microbiological observation and testing inaccuracy, the differentiation isn't available.
Notice a trend?
Now notice this significant piece of data on Mycoplasma:
The pneumoniae group contains the clusters of M. muris, M. fastidiosum, U. urealyticum, the currently unculturable haemotrophic mollicutes, informally referred to as haemoplasmas (recently transferred from the genera Haemobartonella and Eperythrozoon.
Dr. Fry, when researching has identified Hemo (Notice, it's Hemo, not Haemo). These are "the same" thing. One is simply U.S. language, rather than European (U.K.) English.
So Dr. Fry is finding a form of Mycoplasma as it is thought these possibly are identical organisms.
However, these infect humans, they don't respond to cyclines very well or the cillin family, they don't respond to macrolides very well, and yet our entire understanding of the general species of Bartonell and Mycoplasma, especially in animals, demonstrates both work, until.........the host is immunocompromised.
Now what happens in Lyme Disease my friends? Specific components of the immune system are systematically shut down, depending on the strain of infectious pathogenic borrelia. The B31 strain, as we know it (Most of us have this in the U.S., but not all) -- we know that suppresses different immune cells, and not only that, but literally "eats and kills" them. And since people often test positive for multiple co-infections, people who test PCR positive for Mycoplasma or Bartonella, sometimes see the results on Fry Labs blood smear.
This confusion has led us to one conclusion. We still do not know what this BLO is that Dr. Burrascano is talking about, but it's safe to assume the Fry Lab results are the same infection, given they both respond quite specifically to the same antibiotics, but not a broad range of other antibiotics that either Mycoplasma or Bartonella individually should.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
I'm sorry, but I can't help you with the information you need.
Hopefully, someone else here can and will though.
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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Please post them here, if you will, as I'm interested in seeing them!
You're welcome, but my thanks goes to those who've replied to it the most, even though I started it.
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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I didn't know about the labels and their differentiation, much less about all of the rest you've explained.
Wow!
So, who knows what we're REALLY dealing with, much less how to ACCURATELY treat it, huh?
Thanks for much food for thought!
Maybe, in a few years, I'll know more of what you know, but for now, I'm content with just learning, as much as I can, from others, like you, who are so willing to help me.
I'm quite grateful you all don't mind!
Love, Light, & Health, Jennie
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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