posted
How many people have ended up in the hospital for a herx and how long where you there?
Posts: 28 | From tx | Registered: Jul 2008
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METALLlC BLUE
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posted
Yes, you can die. I'd say about 80-90% of patients with Chronic Lyme Disease end up in the E.R. or hospital because of Herxheimer reactions. They often think "If I push through, I'll get well faster. This is not a wise move. It is not wise to force through a Herxheimer reaction. It's one thing to be uncomfortable and feel sick, and another to be debilitated and crippled to the point of an inability to walk, talk, or until weight loss has become significant. The infection can take a beating far longer than the human body. So backing up is the best bet at first.
The key to avoiding an emergency is to lower the dose of the medication when the Herxheimer gets severe -- or before it gets severe. Once a strong Herxheimer reaction occurs, detoxification can help decrease the symptoms, such as using Activated Charcol, around 1 to 2 grams or 1,000mg to 2,000mg during the day, one gram, a few hours later, another gram.
The AC should not be taken within 2-3 hours of medications.
Once the severity of symptoms decreases, the dose of the antibiotic should be increased again to the normal dose. If the reaction occurs again, cut back again.
This will help avoid the E.R. One of the main symptoms that leads people to the E.R. is the inability to eat, vomiting, or other forms of seizure, or things of that sort.
To avoid stomach problems, a proton pump inhibitor like Nexium can be used to help decrease the stomach upset that can come with certain medications. Some medications, like the cyclines can't be taken directly alongside the Nexium, but you can take them hours apart.
In the end, avoid strong Herxheimer reactions by adjusting the antibiotic dose. Lowering it when symptoms get severe, and increasing it when symptoms stabilize.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
Thanks! I though it was best to push through too but learned the hard way that is not right!
You really can die???? That is crazy!!
Posts: 28 | From tx | Registered: Jul 2008
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METALLlC BLUE
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posted
When I say a person can die, I don't mean everyone would. Only the sickest of the sick, who can't withstand the added stress of the reaction, would be at risk, or those with serious complications of heart problems, severe neurological or psychiatric symptoms. Suicide is another one to watch out for in some patients. During intense herxheimer reactions, psychiatric symptoms can blossom.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
I was admitted for four days and released cuz i begged my dr to let me go home!
They gave me IV fluids and checked my PICC for infection...it was neg.
Posts: 28 | From tx | Registered: Jul 2008
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METALLlC BLUE
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posted
quote: What can you really do for bad herxes?
I bet a blood transfusion would help alot. Dialysis?
I also heard anti-TNF-alpha helps. Fat chance of gettin' that.
Detoxification is what should be done during a bad herxheimer reaction. A number of therapies are available. IV Glutathione is good, if one can access it. For those who can't, Chlorella works, Nutrimedix Burbur works, Activated Charcoal works, which is dirt cheap.
Investigate detoxification, and you'll find many of the therapies work well during Herxheimer reactions. A herxheimer reaction is the immune systems response to infectious bacterial antigens, and the toxins released by the bacterium upon death.
Borrelia B. like some other bacteria, produce toxins. These toxins happen to be neurotoxic, thus very damaging for the central nervous system. This is why the primary symptoms of a herxheimer reactions are "nervous system" related.
Detoxification methods often help the liver process the toxins, or help the body remove the antigens.
Some methods, like AI #3 from Dr. Zhang work to downregulate aspects of the immune system, thus decreasing the immune systems response during a Herxheimer reaction. Temporarily immunoregulation is ok.
You can investigate this herb by visiting Hepapro, or by asking questions here on the forum. My opinion is to use Activated Charcoal, drink fresh water, and decrease the medication dose. I might keep some Nutrimedix Burbur on the side too.
Activated Charcoal is simple. It's used in much higher doses in hospitals when someone needs to detox from swallowing poisons or various drugs. Using a lower dose orally via pill, can be useful when spread out over a day, during a Herxheimer reaction.
Hope this helps.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
I was hospitalized for almost a week as a result of a herxheimer reaction....and my LLMD not listening to me tell him I was getting to an emergency state.
My LLMD at the time was telling me to 'stick with it' and meanwhile I thought for sure I was going to die....and actually was so ill I could have cared less at that time if I did.
I haven't been the same since. Prior to starting treatment I had some decent days....even though my bad days aren't as bad, my good days aren't as good pre-treatment (started a year ago). I wonder if that severe herxheimer reaction didn't cause some permanent damage.....
I obviously found myself a new Lyme-doc after that experience and my new LLMD commented that people can die from severe herxheimer reactions and/OR become suicidal.
Posts: 561 | From mass | Registered: Jul 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
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posted
Let me guess. Dr. D. told you to "stick with it."
quote: "I obviously found myself a new Lyme-doc after that experience and my new LLMD commented that people can die from severe herxheimer reactions and/OR become suicidal."
Hmm interesting, I've never heard "that" before. God, I gotta cure this Lyme and just get into medical school before all these incompetents kill the rest of us.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
Yup, Dr. D!
Posts: 561 | From mass | Registered: Jul 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
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Shocking, really. I think the guy is just clueless sometimes. Did you read about my last appointment with him? It was disturbing. It's under "Losing Faith In Your LLMD" -- should be on the first page of the Lymenet discussion forum in this section.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
I use to believe backing off during the herx was helpful but after almost 2 years of orals and not getting any better, I decided to bow up and do IV's at high doses and not back down.
I did however end up in the ER with my first big herx, now I am able to push myself to the highest point before I have to go to the E.R. and then I will back off a little and increase fluids along with detox protocols.
Now my blood work is showing improvement weekly where when I was on orals, nothing really improved.
Alot of people that had longterm chronic lyme disease with co-infections are well now because they did high dose ABX and pushed through the pain.
It comes down to how tough you can be without pushing yourself into a "total" disabled state.
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Rianna
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Yes you can die of a Herx where the cytokine response goes in to such a storm they can not stop it although it is rare, I know of someone who did die on week 3 of IV Rocephin - I beleive it is often ALS patients or severe Neuro patients who are at greatest risk.
I was hospitalised with a Bicillin herx as it went cardiac.
You will also see on the 'Under our Skin' DVD that 'Mandy' was hospitalised due to seizures.
Your LLMD needs to keep you safe and if you see yourself getting worse and worse you must speak to your LLMD to be safe.
posted
My story is unusual and complex, but when I first diagnosed in 2003 with full blown neurolyme, I believed it was a relatively new infection.
I wound up seeing a great LLMD pretty quickly, who put me on oral antibiotics at the time, also believing it was a new onset.
I am totally convinced had she started me on IV right away, I would have died
I learned eventually that I had actually had lyme since I was a little girl, and had been "functioning" my whole life with this illness (sometimes not so well, actually) until my body totally shut down at age 34.
I also have the "dreaded genotype" so I was just one big toxic mess!
I think it is a blessing that I was not put on IV immediately (I still haven't actually ever been on IV) - the herx totally would have done me in! The orals were bad enough!!!!
-------------------- "We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us" - e.m. forster Posts: 921 | From PA | Registered: Jan 2004
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