Topic: your symptoms ever led you to "i am dying"??
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
i am not feeling very well at all lately. i have such horrible joint pain which has moved to shoulders, wrists, elbows, etc. i have a soft mushy gold stool in the morning and then brown watery diahhrea at least twice more in the day.
i have a major headache and am so nauseous. bad pain under both ribs but mostly right side. lower abdomen is sort of burning and tender to the touch.
my llmd still says this is a herx and i've been doing it for several weeks. i tried to tell him "levaquin" but he said no.
have you ever just felt like you were dying and no one was listening? um, depression maybe? but i think sometimes i wouldn't care if i did.
i have lost 10 pounds due to not being hungry. just don't want to bother. my arms hurt and it's even hard to type this.
i KNOW it was the levaquin because i did not feel this bad before the treatment and now i feel like hell.
i want to stop all treatment and just die!!!
i think maybe i'm one of those that shouldn't be taking any antibiotics. every time i do i get c. difficile, colitis, something very serious from the effects.
i can't take this anymore...
have you ever felt like this? yep, detoxing. the epsom salts baths make me feel a little better but then it all comes back.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
my humble opinion, sometimes abx are just not worth it I was sick just like you are, every time I took abx. My last course was 4 weeks ago. I tried the doxy again and for 10 days thought I was dying
I'm not a believer in herxing and that herxing is good for the body. I think it's bs When you're body is having a reaction, it's a bad sign, not a good sign
I'm working towards a cert as a naturopath and I can tell you, a body in peril is not a body that will ever heal
Have you ever tried to heal naturally?
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randibear
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Member # 11290
posted
i don't even know what natural healing is and there is no one around here, fort worth, that i know.
i'm just completely drained. and i've been to the er so many times they know me by name.
the last time i had "indeterminate upper abdominal pain" and they gave me morphine and sent me home.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
I'm sorry to hear it. I have to say that I believe that those are symptoms of bartonella. Do you have a rash or bumps on your skin that you can't account for?
I had the same issues. Really bad headaches, joint pain (believe this is actually from lyme), rib pain, lower abdominal pain, leaky stool. Most of these have resolved after 4 months of Levaquin. I know Levaquin is not for everyone, but if it doesn't hurt your tendons it did wonders for me.
I'm sorry that your doc doesn't want to help, but sometimes you have to be insistent. I put together a paper of my symptoms and the symptoms that are associated with bartonella. I showed how my symtoms were similar, my doctor started out being skeptical, but then changed his mind.
Try to reason with him.
Pulling for you. You'll make it.
Posts: 158 | From Santa Monica | Registered: May 2007
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
no no lumps or anything...
just the rest of what i listed and i guess this really bad depression....
the joint and tendon pain is so bad i can barely walk....
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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feelfit
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12770
posted
Randi,
I've been there, I'm willing to bet that a majority of us have at one time or other. It really wears one down.
I always make it through though. You will too.
What abx are you taking now? You're off of the Levaquin. Doing your probiotics?
Ever tried tiny doses of whatever med and slowly ramping up?
I agree w/ Peacesoul wholeheartedly. I always believed my body had the capacity to heal itself. BUT after reading HEALING LYME (Buhner) I came to the conclusion that abx are necessary in treating Lyme.
I hope that we all eventually find our peace. Praying that you'll turn around soon1
Feelfit
Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by randibear: i don't even know what natural healing is and there is no one around here, fort worth, that i know.
i'm just completely drained. and i've been to the er so many times they know me by name.
the last time i had "indeterminate upper abdominal pain" and they gave me morphine and sent me home.
Here, I found this for you
Natural healing is taking herbs, changing your diet and mental attitude to give your body a chance to heal. Think about this, when you get a cut, the body's natural action is to heal itself. It works with every other aspect. Not saying abx are wrong, they certainly have a place, but when is enough enough?
"The Jarish-Herxheimer reaction is thought to be due to the response of the spirochete to the antibiotic.
As bacteria are killed, they produce a toxin that has been found similar to that of botulism, with the result that Lyme flares can be intense." -from the book Beating Lyme
Yeah! Kill the buggers!
Detox and eat bananas - fresh and also have the banana chips on hand to help solidify your BM. Talk to you LLMD about the problems you have.
But stay the "course" if at all possible because it sounds like it is working.
I'm sorry - really, I hope this will pass soon and you will start feeling better. Please get well.
Blessings to you, Peedie
Posts: 641 | From So. CA | Registered: May 2008
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
Randi, YES! I felt like that! I felt like that for six weeks on Levaquin then started seeing incredible improvement. Hang in there. It's most likely a herx. Once it passes, you will see improvement.
Like I said, the Levaquin caused a six week herx in the beginning of taking it. I did the epsom salt baths daily. Coffee enemas gave me relief as well.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by sparkle7: You digestive system is 70% of your immune system. It you destroy it with long courses of abx - it will make it harder to get well... just my opinion.
This is very true and a great point.
Think of this, even when they give a cancer patient chemo, they stop it at a certain point or give the patient a break.
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sixgoofykids
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Member # 11141
posted
My digestive tract has improved on abx! I know that is odd, but getting some of this bad bacteria out of my body, getting rid of the parasites, etc. has made my digestive tract much, much healthier.
By the time I started treatment, I couldn't eat much solid food and if I got a crumb of gluten I was sick for days.
Now, I can eat anything again.
Yes, the digestive tract is important and I agree that it's a huge part of the immune system, but I disagree that abx will destroy it.
Of course, you have to take plenty of probiotics.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
YES I have! I finally realized that I had to stop and take a break...when that didnt help, I had to turn around and go another direction. It has been 3 weeks since I was down hill and 1 since I turned the other direction - herbal.
I am going with zhangs protocol.
But what I will say is yes, our bodies can only take so much.
Check out the thread on Glutathione for herxes. That seems another viable option. You can get the patch.
i dont agree with the push through when you hit a certain low I just dont think its wise.
-------------------- Seeking renewed health & vitality. --------------------------------- Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr! Posts: 830 | From TN | Registered: Aug 2007
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
To me seems as a herx.If you do not feel and tendons issues..thn just slow donw with lower dosages and DETOX as much as you can
If you need to stop than take a break with something esle...but definilty keep detoxing...
DEPRESSIOn was severe for me 6 months TOP and than came back everytime I stop treating bart...KILLING bart causes more depresion than LYME itself...
If you can handle it than just keep taking it even if in very low dosages....
I might want to go back on it as I see it really gave me great benefits as it went deeper went nothing could go...
I know about ruptures I had left knee problems...but helped more than anything else...also beeing on it...was horrible...I still need that as RIFAMPIN 1 year is not even keeping the GROUND that I ganined.
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CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077
posted
Levaquin or Cipro inflammed my brain and caused me months of recuperating from a terrible relapse. It's poison to me.
Trust your gut. Stop when it gets this unbearable.
IMO, CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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It sounds like you may be having trouble with your liver. Right side rib pain, gold stool, nausea, not hungry...these are all symptoms that your liver is overloaded.
This does not mean that if you took a liver test that your enzymes would be off. An overloaded liver will not show up in a test.
I know all this because I suffer from the same problem and have since I got sick four years ago. I suffer alot from liver pain.
I see a Natropath and she has me on a lot of Milk Thistle and some liver cleaning herbs to help. If you liver is overloaded it could be from being to toxic.
I had to do some liver detox and support before I could resume treatment with the herbs I just started taking.
If you have the money I would see a Naturopath in your area who could help you with this.
Regular western doctors don't understand that you liver can have this problem. But, all Naturopaths should know this.
Please keep in mind I am NOT a doctor, just a fellow sufferer.
Best of luck to you. Hope you start feeling better soon.
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
i jut went out and bought some milk thistle. it says take 2 with each meal.
is that about right?
yeah, i'm thinking it's my liver...i looked up the symptoms of liver damage and they all seem to be about right.
that has me really scared.....
should i just stop all antibiotics and rest and treat the liver or just continue with the flagyl and biaxin?
at this point, i don't know what to do. my llmd says to keep on taking everything including the levaquin as he's still convinced this is a herx....i didn't want to argue but, frankly, i'm scared witless...
he laughed and said "you really have an irrational fear of leavaquin" and i told him "yeah, well doc, i can't help it. i'm terrified of dying the way my mother did. and nobody listened to her either."
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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You can take up to 1200 mg of milk thistle. When my liver symptoms flared up I was already taking 300 mg. Since then I upped it to 900 mg and it is helping.
I take 2 pills with breakfast, lunch, and then dinner, 6 pills total. I worked up to this amount. So you may want to start with a couple pills and then add from there.
Stephen Buhner (of Healing Lyme book)also said that you can take up to 1200 mg. He has alot of experience with treating liver conditions.
I know it's scary (and painful). It scares me sometimes too. But, I've been having these symtoms for four years on and off and I'm still here and still getting better.
I can't say what you should do about the antibiotics. That is a choice you need to make.
My guess is that it could be the antibiotics itself making you toxic or it could be from die off making you toxic and therefore you need to do more detox.
I highly recommend a Naturopath if you can get to one. They really understand these things.
Oh, one other thing you can try is castor oil packs. I have not done this personally, but, I've heard great things about them for this.
A overloaded liver is not liver damage. With an over loaded liver it just means that you liver has too many toxins to process and it is overloaded or congested.
Look up overloaded liver or congested liver. It is different then liver damage. Not as scary but, still needs to be treated.
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
thank you so much. there is so much to learn and sometimes i feel that it's just too overwhelming....
i'd like to go into an office, throw up my hands and say "what in sam hill am i supposed to do?"
i know all that responsibility stuff, but man, i feel like i'm not intelligent enough to even comprehend the basics right now...
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Have you tried activated charcoal to ease your die off symptoms? You have to take it away from meds and supplements but some people swear it helps a herx.
Flagyl is really hard on the liver. I would imagine Biaxin might be hard on it too. Maybe you would do better on Tindazole or Tindamax then Flagyl? It might give you less of a herx then Flagyl.
I hope you feel better and yes I did feel like I was dying when I was still undiagnosed and had really bad colitis and was dehydrated. Hang in there!
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quote:Originally posted by randibear: my llmd says to keep on taking everything including the levaquin as he's still convinced this is a herx....i didn't want to argue but, frankly, i'm scared witless...
he laughed and said "you really have an irrational fear of leavaquin"
Posts: 21 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2008
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
no no, i stopped the levaquin about a month ago. that's when he said i was "irrational" about my fear of levaquin.
then he put me on cipro and i had the same reaction -- muscle and severe joint pain, it just kept getting worse and worse.
so i stopped everything. on my own. with the liver pain, muscle pain, all my symptoms, i just pulled the antibiotics.
i was so frightened i didn't know what to do.
he told me to keep taking the cipro, biaxin, and flagyl and "push on through"....
but i couldn't, i just couldn't. several mornings i stayed in bed, my entire body hurt so bad i couldn't move.
so i'm off everything and have been for a couple of weeks.
i'm going to call him and tell him.
i know i'm probably being difficult but i can't help it. i don't deal well with all this since my mom died and he's probably right, i'm being irrational, but i just think i'm getting much worse on these drugs and i'm not seeing any improvement at all, i mean at all....
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by randibear: my llmd still says this is a herx and i've been doing it for several weeks. i tried to tell him "levaquin" but he said no.
Thank you for clarifying that, Randibear. I'm sure you understand why I wasn't clear on what happened when.
Posts: 21 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2008
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Angelica
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posted
I don't think you are being irrational and I am sorry to hear your mother died.
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