I had been on Doxy for 6 weeks and zith for 3. I finished them a week ago today. I have been treating myself with colloidal silver for about 2 weeks. I am to the point now where I can honestly and accurately say I am at 90-95%.
Yesterday my doctor upon my request gave me a prescription for 6 more weeks of doxy.
My question is:
-Do I get back on the ABx (doxy) today without worrying at all about it making me regress. Can it 'wake the bugs back up' and make them get stronger or without any doubt should I take the doxy for the next 6 weeks, or just treat the remainder of my illness with the colloidal silver? Remember I am back to 90-95%. Beginning to feel normal again.
-I think long-term antibiotics are a bad idea. I think they're very harmful. My doctor stated that he didn't feel comfortable treating me too long-term, or 2 months after the last symptom. I honestly don't think that is a good idea either. That said, would another 6 weeks of doxy be harmful to me (yes I am taking acidopholous).
I appreciate any advice I can get. Thanks for your time and have a great day.
posted
I guess I just personally feel that long term antibiotics (a few more months) are more negative than positive health-wise, and are rarely a fix. After a while you hit a wall.
Just curious, who told you long term abx are rarely a cure? Seems the studies say otherwise.
If you're not going to treat till cured, why bother? I think it will just build resistance and make it harder to treat once you get serious about getting well. It most likely will come back if you don't properly treat it now.
I'd skip the six weeks, it won't get you well. Either treat till your done or don't bother. IMO.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
As of this afternoon, I am back on doxycycline... 400mg a day. I have a 3 months supply.
After that, I won't be taking anymore antibiotics. I know its insanely unhealthy, and I have already poured enough down me that it should have cured the particular case of lyme that I have (6 weeks). Not directed at anyone, just frustrated that I am still taking them and I can look forward to 3 more months of having to eat so many meals a day, not being able to ever drink even socially, and basically committing to bending my day around 'pill time'.
posted
Tell me about it ..... over 30 years misdiagnosed .... 18 months of abx and herbs ..... 90% well ....
As far as "insanely unhealthy" .... depends on your perspective. I got off before I was well and declined to bedridden again .... and I was on herbs at the time.
Every single person here would rather not be on antibiotics. Trust me. But we do what we have to do. Antibiotics may be unhealthy to some, but there would be many of us here who would die if it weren't for taking them.
I've never heard anyone here mention how much fun lyme treatment is. I hope you are well in a month so that you are treating two months past ....
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Why do you think abx are "insanely unhealth"? to paraphrase the Under Our Skin movie....they're certainly not unhealthy if you have a serious bacterial infection.
Dermatologists routinely prescribe them for years to teenagers with acne....
Some illnesses - like Lyme, like Hepatitis, like TB can require months and months of treatment. Don't set up arbitrary deadlines - do your research, find a dr. you trust and then follow his advice.
Posts: 39 | From wdc | Registered: Aug 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Six weeks of JUST doxy ? MONO-TREATMENT is never suggested with lyme.
Doxy does nothing for the cyst form. You have a new case of this. I hope you can address it as thoroughly as possible.
Did you read the articles by SAVELY ?
Did you read Singleton's book ?
Did you see "Under Our Skin" ?
Have you seen the video of Alan MacDonald (or McD) about the life cycle of the spirochete?
You know that, as you are lucky to be getting early treatment, that proper treatment for long enough is key.
doxy is not enough. Adding silver on your own may help, but is not enough.
Have you devoured Buhner and Zhang's book yet? Even they combine abx at times. But their suggestions entail enormous research and specificity.
You must know all the plans and then find the best one for you.
Doxy and silver are no where comprehensive enough.
I understand your concern with abx. After you read all the above mentioned works, I think you'll feel better armed. But you must be specific to infection, not just support.
Links to these were in previous threads of yours.
And, you might be interested in research on the Bionic 880.
=========
If you are uncomfortable treating as per the specialists in this field suggest, I cannot describe the pain and agony that may be in store for your entire future.
Sure there are many ways to approach this but denial is not one that will bring you success. you are in a wonderful window of opportunity that will never come again.
Please learn more about these infections. Please follow through in some manner.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Co-infections (other tick-borne infections or TBD - tick-borne disease) are not discussed here do to space limits. Still, any LLMD you would see would know how to assess/treat if others are present.
CONTROVERSY CONTINUES TO FUEL THE "LYME WAR" By Virginia Savely, RN, FNP-C
*****
As two medical societies battle over its diagnosis and treatment, Lyme disease remains a frequently missed illness. Here is how to spot and treat it.
Excerpts:
" . . .To treat Lyme disease for a comparable number of life cycles, treatment would need to last 30 weeks. . . ."
"...If all cases were detected and treated in the early stages of Lyme disease, the debate over the diagnosis and treatment of late-stage disease would not be an issue, and devastating rheumatologic, neurologic, and cardiac complications could be avoided..."
- FULL ARTICLE AT LINK ABOVE.
===================== ====================
This is also why you get the response you do from doctors and why you can't afford to mess around with anyone but the best.
Note: the experience of most lyme patients is that complementary medicine is vital to treatment with supplements that are of nutritional support. Singleton's book (above) outlines abx and complementary formulas.
Some herbs can be very powerful. However, some naturopathic doctors are not properly educated about nature of lyme and TBD. And some herbs are not nearly strong enough.
However, there are two or three protocols that have seen levels of success. You would sure still want to consult with a LLMD.
The two books below have very specific information and a good understanding of these infections. Some patients do these alone, some LLMD's incorporate these.
Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine (Paperback) by Dr. QingCai Zhang (Author), Yale Zhang (Author)
you can access his web site through www.hepapro.com or try www.sinomedresearch.org and use "clinic" and then "clinic" for the passwords or call Hepapro.
============= =============
This excellent article explains a lot about what chronic neuroborreliosis can do. It also details other chronic stealth infections, such as Cpn - and others - that should also be assessed in all chronic patients, especially those with neurological symptoms.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
--
" . . . Perhaps, as recent information has instructed, that is because the immune system does not begin to repair itself until the beginning of the fourth month of antibiotic treatment. . . . "
IV. WHAT'S WRONG WITH ``CURRENT GUIDELINES FOR TREATMENT'' OF NEUROBORRELIOSIS? First, read the fine print.
It is interesting to note that recommendations for treatment in the medical literature may carry provisos in small print that can easily be overlooked but are instrumental to understanding how important individualization of therapy is at the current time.
For instance, in the past and in small print Dr. Alan Steere has written, ``treatment failures have occurred in all these regimens, and retreatment may be necessary; the duration of therapy is based on clinical response, and the appropriate duration of therapy with late neurological abnormalities may be longer than two weeks.''
A more recent article written by Rahn and Malawista states ``these guidelines are to be modified by new findings. It should always be applied with close attention to the clinical course of individual patients.''
Dr. Katzel surveyed several Lyme Borreliosis conferences, including international ones. He finds a trend towards the use of antibiotics for longer periods than previously described and lack of standardization of care worldwide.
50% of physicians responding considered using antibiotics for time periods greater than one year in symptomatic seropositive patients, with almost as many extending therapy up to one and a half years when necessary.
THE CASE FOR PERSISTENT INFECTION
Studies have shown that Lyme bacteria can be an intracellular pathogen and may evade the normal host immune response. The causative spirochete, B. burgdorferi, for instance, may persist within fibroblasts and survive at least 14 days of exposure to ceftriaxone.
In addition, B. burgdorferi has been cultured from CSF more than a half year after a standard regimen of IV antibiotics, according to Preac-Mursic. Logigian and Steere looked at patients with chronic neuroborreliosis, evaluating them six months after two weeks of IV ceftriaxone.
Over one-half of the patients had already been treated with therapy that was thought appropriate for their stage of illness, yet the illness progressed. The majority of patients studied had subacute encephalopathy and polyneuropathy.
Most had persistent fatigue, and almost one-half had headaches. One-third of these patients had to stop working or had to go part-time, underscoring the disability that may be seen with Lyme disease on an individual and societal level.
After therapy, two-thirds of patients improved markedly, but seldom completely. Twenty-two percent improved but then relapsed, and fifteen percent had no change in their condition.
This study suggests that additional antibiotics greatly helped the majority with neuroborreliosis but they were insufficient to cause long lasting remission in those patients who subsequently relapsed. Persistent residual or irreversible disease may explain the fifteen percent who had no change in their condition.
For those clinicians who have had extensive experience with chronic neuroborreliosis, more recent recommendations suggesting that a regime of only 20 to 28 days or even 6 weeks of intravenous antibiotics is sufficient for cure proved contrary to clinical experience. That brief dosing does not appear to prevent relapse or improve long-term outcome dramatically in many cases.
Perhaps, as recent information has instructed, that is because the immune system does not begin to repair itself until the beginning of the fourth month of antibiotic treatment. A trial of prolonged use of oral antibiotics seems more reasonable in many cases, given these circumstances.
Antibiotics used for chronic neuroborreliosis should be able to penetrate the blood-brain barrier, express activity against intracellular organisms, and assure good intraphagocytic penetration.
It is anticipated that the microbe during late disease has achieved maximal adaptation to its host environment. Also, because of the long generation time of the organism, lengthier therapy is warranted.
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
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