Topic: Marnie, why do I feel worse when taking NAC
lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
Ive been supplementing with NAC and now I am taking the time release.
Why does my neuropathy, headache and toxic feeling get WORSE when I supplement.
Does NAC release toxins from the liver into general circulation?
I thought this should clear me up!
[ 19. August 2008, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: lymeHerx001 ]
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
NAC is used in treatment for another chronic stealth infection, Chlamydia Pneumonia (Cpn) as an anti-cyst method. Must like lyme, Cpn also has a crytic form.
If NAC also does that with lyme, that can explain a lot.
I'm just learning more about this - slowly - but you can read more about NAC as used in the Cpn treatment at www.cpnhelp.org
lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
If its used on Cpn, then what about mycoplasm pnemoniae?
I am positive for this both IGG and IGM, at least my body has antibodies present to it which is indicative for active infection.
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posted
NAC kills the elementary body form of Cpn by breaking the di-sulfide bonds of the cell wall. That NAC phenomenon is believed to be unique to Cpn, and reactions like yours are a good indication that you likely have Cpn infection.
-------------------- Dallas caregiver for husband Steve who has Bb, Cpn, Mpn, EBV, CMV, other Herpes family viruses Posts: 51 | From Dallas, TX | Registered: May 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
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0624sm ,
thanks for a clearer explanation.
Ten years after lyme and 2 other TBD, I was dx with Cpn.
posted
FYI, for what it is worth, in Dr. Cheney's 2006 DVDs (available on Dallas Ft Worth CFIDS website)he STRONGLY recommends against NAC, and says he won't use it. He says it risks over-mobilizing heavy metals beyond the body's capacity to eliminate resulting in symptoms similar to those you describe.
More specifically, he stated that when heavy metals are over-mobilized it risks redepositing of it into the brain. Most importantly, he reported that suicides have occurred with NAC. Not his patients but other doctor(s) who he didn't name. He said both patients jumped from bridges.
Please be very careful about using NAC.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
NAC is also a major precursor to the bodies formation of glutathione.
Often when supplementing with NAC, you may get an enhanced "detox" type reaction from the increase in glutathione.
Also - many lyme treatments are tough on the liver. NAC is very liver protective. In fact it's often used in the ER for people who have overdosed on Tylenol (highly liver toxic).
To me there is a lot of upside to taking NAC.
Perhaps you can take 600mg NAC every other day until tolerated. Then 600mg every day, etc... my husband and I take 2400mg every day.
-------------------- When you are going through hell, just keep going. Winston Churchill Posts: 20 | From Georgia | Registered: Aug 2007
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
I kinda agree with you here.
Im thinking that I have a burden of mercury thats interfering with my ability to get better and my brain.
Right now I have a MIGRANE HEADACHE. I took a time release capsule of NAC about 5 hours ago.
Now I just took 2 Advil.
My LLMD says that he recomends it, I believe that its screwing me up in more ways then one.
When I first took NAC after not taking it in a while it did make me feel better (less pain, clearer head).
Now I think its moving mercury into my brain! I can feel my brain swelling.
quote:Originally posted by jam338: FYI, for what it is worth, in Dr. Cheney's 2006 DVDs (available on Dallas Ft Worth CFIDS website)he STRONGLY recommends against NAC, and says he won't use it. He says it risks over-mobilizing heavy metals beyond the body's capacity to eliminate resulting in symptoms similar to those you describe.
More specifically, he stated that when heavy metals are over-mobilized it risks redepositing of it into the brain. Most importantly, he reported that suicides have occurred with NAC. Not his patients but other doctor(s) who he didn't name. He said both patients jumped from bridges.
Please be very careful about using NAC.
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TerryK
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Member # 8552
posted
In addition to what others have said, NAC is a sulphur based supplement so if you are sensitive to sulphur, this supplement could cause problems.
I didn't know I had a problem with sulphur until my LLMD had me get sulphur strips and I found that I had a problem.
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lymeHerx001
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Member # 6215
posted
I never had a problem with sulpher drugs.
Also I eat alot of eggs and they have plenty of sulpher. Gives them that smell. Also brocolli.
Dont have problems with either of them.
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SForsgren
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posted
NAC also pulls mercury from the gut right up into the brain.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
So should I take NAC with chlorella?
Im at a loss. Im trying to improve my MCS and my tolerance of abx as well as increase my detoxing.
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lymeHerx001
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posted
Let me get this strait.
NAC is the precursor to Glutothione an essental part of our livers ability to detox certain chemicals.
NAC can also release heavy metals into our systems how? Does it do this by breaking the bond to what ever it was bound to? Thus releasing Mercury into general circulation?
If it does this with Mercury then what is it doing to the other substances in our bodies that we want to get rid of.
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Do read my older posts before taking NAC. I learned this during my healing journey:
Following the law of osmosis, we separate the body into two parts:
1. the brain 2. the rest of the body
They are separated by the blood brain barrier. If you have a lot of mercury in the lower part of the body, it may cause very, very few symptoms. If you have a tiny amount of mercury in the brain, it causes a hugh amount of pathology. What happens when you swallow N-acetyl cystine, it first contacts the gut mucosa which is loaded with mercury. It picks up the mercury there and then it kind of goes through the lymphatic system and the immune system and picks up more mercury in the endothelium, but the brain sends a message that it needs cysteine for functioning, so the cysteine then drags it in its tail; it's used as a shuttling agent. It drags with it the mercury back into the brain.
Only if all the areas besides the brain have been cleared of heavy metals is NAC safe to use. None of the agents are bad if given at the right time, in the right sequence, together with the right co-factors and in the absence of things that disturb the process. Your doctor should know how if he/she is familiar with heavy metal detoxification.
Be very careful with NAC.
Take care.
P.S. www.neuraltherapy.com Accordingly there is hardly anyone chronically ill without heavy metal toxicity.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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My doc has me taking NAC, ALA, and milk thistle because I'm allergic to IV glutathione and been having trouble with my liver levels since starting Rocephin.
At first I tied the chronic back/hip/leg pain and muscle knotting to the Rocephin, but after reading this thread I'm wondering if it might be the mercury wandering around.
I've also noticed an increase in the severity of several food allergies and am wondering the same thing about that.
Now that I think about it, I had a similar reaction after one doc had me do a DMPS mercury challenge.
My mercury levels aren't toxic, but they are elevated.
Hmmmm (again)
-------------------- If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. - Lewis Carroll Posts: 356 | From Body-PA, Mind-elsewhere | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
TerryK, What were the sulphur strips for and how do you use them?
The only info I could find on these was in regards to wine making.
Pretty sure that's not what your doc had in mind.
-------------------- If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. - Lewis Carroll Posts: 356 | From Body-PA, Mind-elsewhere | Registered: Dec 2007
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luvs2ride
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Member # 8090
posted
Curiouser
Sometimes the test results aren't all inclusive, so if they show a little mercury, you may actually have much more than a little, the DMPS challenge just didn't pull much of it out.
I have to detox very slowly, so my doctor has me on a multitude of herbal detoxes plus 600mg of NAC each morning.
I am doing well with this.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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lymeHerx001
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posted
Im thinking now of just taking a little of NAC.
I have been overdoing it.
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
Thanks again GiGi.
So the NAC really does loosen the mercury from the gut and the rest of the body (not brain).
Then it is carried into the brain because the brain looks at it as cysteine which it is but it also has mercury attached.
Once in the brain it cant go anywhere.
Im starting to get the picture despite my very poor sleep last night. Time for a new mattress?
Oh the subects I jump. Im not looking forward to picking one out.
quote:Originally posted by GiGi: Do read my older posts before taking NAC. I learned this during my healing journey:
Following the law of osmosis, we separate the body into two parts:
1. the brain 2. the rest of the body
They are separated by the blood brain barrier. If you have a lot of mercury in the lower part of the body, it may cause very, very few symptoms. If you have a tiny amount of mercury in the brain, it causes a hugh amount of pathology. What happens when you swallow N-acetyl cystine, it first contacts the gut mucosa which is loaded with mercury. It picks up the mercury there and then it kind of goes through the lymphatic system and the immune system and picks up more mercury in the endothelium, but the brain sends a message that it needs cysteine for functioning, so the cysteine then drags it in its tail; it's used as a shuttling agent. It drags with it the mercury back into the brain.
Only if all the areas besides the brain have been cleared of heavy metals is NAC safe to use. None of the agents are bad if given at the right time, in the right sequence, together with the right co-factors and in the absence of things that disturb the process. Your doctor should know how if he/she is familiar with heavy metal detoxification.
Be very careful with NAC.
Take care.
P.S. www.neuraltherapy.com Accordingly there is hardly anyone chronically ill without heavy metal toxicity. [/QB]
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
The pineal gland, mercury, and sleeplessness are very closely related. Read up on it.
I have recently heard about a supposedly fabulous, fairly new heavy metal detoxer called Biologo-Detox available at www.ll-euro.com in Austria.
I have been trying to order it and now found out that they can only ship it to Germany. Not sure about other EU. So I am finally having it sent to a friend in Germany who will mail it to me.
If it does what I was told it does by practitioners who are using it in practice overthere - it should turn out to be a great helper. I am sure I won't know for another couple of weeks, and then I will test it and try it on some poor victim. Heavy metal detox can also be accomplished with photons of the Bionic 880 and the proper nosode and remedy. All only after energetic testing. I use a Biotensor (talked about here recently).
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Google, google, google. Like GADaisy and her husband, my husband and I also take 2400mg of NAC daily. I haven't seen anything on this thread to influence a change. Joyce/cypriane
-------------------- Dallas caregiver for husband Steve who has Bb, Cpn, Mpn, EBV, CMV, other Herpes family viruses Posts: 51 | From Dallas, TX | Registered: May 2008
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Boomerang
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Member # 7979
posted
Interesting thread.
Joyce, hubby has been on NAC after testing positive for cpn. He's also on milk thistle for liver protection.
The NAC was really hard for him to tolerate at first, but doesn't seem to bother him anymore.
Have you heard anything about the mercury problems?
posted
O.K.---I'm a little confused!!!! I saw Dr. J in S.C. and was very impressed with him. After going over all of my blood work, (elev. liver enz., stage II kidney damage, heart damage, sever iron def., always low in postassuim, sodium and the other one??, etc..) Mri brain, CT scan of brain shows many lessions, chest ct, damage many lymph glands, some at 5cc., EMG--poly neuropathy, and then the examine.
He said that I was too sick to start treatment right now. He's hoping to in 6 wks. after getting all of these meds. completely in my systom:
Lyrica and Lamacital for seizures
All of these supplements:
Alpha Lipoic Acid 800mg d CoQ10 150mg d Fibro Complets Multi d NAC 500mg 3xd ***********!!! Probiotics 3xd
After all of this, he hopes to start aggresive IV treatments. He is aware that I have a very hard time detoxing, and severe GI problems.
After seeing this thread, I have so much damage in my brain already with so many lessions that this makes me a little nervous. The last thing I need is any more damgae there!!!!!
I do trust him, but WHAT DO Y'ALL THINK ABOUT THE NAC!!!! Do the other supplements counter act any negative affect that the NAC may cause?? Or maybe the Lyrica and Lamictal protect the brain?????
You all seem to have much knowlegde about this, and any thoughts y'all may have would be soooo appreciated!!!! The brain damage and the results of it is what scares me the most; that it can't be reversed!
Thank You!
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
I use NAC in conjunction with ALA. In my opinion they go together.
I'm on 1,000mg of NAC and 600mg of ALA.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
FWIW, the bolded sentence on cysteine might provide a clue about the NAC I got this from a search on 'Cysteine,' in the medical abstracts section.
Title: Hemolytic activity of Borrelia burgdorferi. Authors: Williams LR, Austin FE Source: Infect Immun 1992 Aug;60(8):3224-30 Organization: Department of Microbiology and Immunology School of Medicine University of Louisville Kentucky 40292.
Abstract: Zones of beta-hemolysis occurred around colonies of Borrelia burgdorferi grown on Barbour-Stoenner-Kelly medium containing agarose and horse blood. Blood plates were inoculated with either the infective strain Sh-2-82 or noninfective strain B-31 in an overlay and incubated in a candle jar. Both strains of B. burgdorferi displayed beta-hemolysis after 1 to 2 weeks of incubation. The hemolytic activity diffused out from the borrelial colonies, eventually resulting in lysis of the entire blood plate. Hemolysis was most pronounced with horse blood and was less intense with bovine, sheep, and rabbit blood. Hemolysis was enhanced by hot-cold incubation, which is typical of phospholipase-like activities in other bacteria. Further characterization of the borrelial hemolysin by using a spectrophotometric assay revealed its presence in the supernatant fluids of stationary-phase cultures. Detection of the borrelial hemolytic activity was dependent on activation of the hemolysin by the reducing agent cysteine. This study provides the first evidence of hemolytic activity associated with B. burgdorferi.
Language: German
Unique ID: 92347995
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Marnie
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posted
Mycoplasma look to love NH3...ammonia which occurs when protein is broken down.
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METALLlC BLUE
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posted
I trust Dr. J's judgment.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
Both Alpha Lipoic Acid and Cilantro cross into the brain and can remove mercury from there, but you have to be careful when using them.
Either go to a good doctor (I have yet to find one) or there is the Cutler protocol which uses frequent, but low doses of chelators to get stuff moving and out more safely than high doses.
There is a yahoo group on the Cutler protocol. IMO its a good protocol but he has an attitude problem - feels that no other way is safe to remove mercury except his way. Rather close-minded, but that doesn't take away from the protocol itself.
Posts: 111 | From Nowhere | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
NAC inhibits histamine breakdown. For me this was the reason feeling bad and getting cough. So if you have histamine problems you can't take NAC.
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