Topic: Big herx from Quina... Why aren't more people using this?
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I just got to the part of the full Cowden protocol which calls for 20 drops of Quina - 2 times a day.
I took it for about 3 days & had a mondo herx. It really ruined my Labor Day weekend...
Has anyone had this experience with Quina or any thoughts about it?
It seems like it's some powerful stuff but I don't really like big, unexpected herxes... I guess it's best to ramp it up slowly.
It's pretty interesting in that it's related to quinine which is a traditional herbal medicine for malaria. I'm not sure how it effects Lyme, though.
Sometimes I wonder if these dramatic herxes are really helpful.
[ 03. September 2008, 12:48 AM: Message edited by: sparkle7 ]
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I was wondering why more people haven't used this...
About Quina -
What is QUINA - MICROBIAL DEFENSE ?
Quina is an extract produced from the bark of Cinchona calisaya, a tree from South America that is found between 1,400 meters and 2,800 meters above sea level.
Nutramedix utilizes a proprietary extraction and enhancement process that makes this product far more effective than any other Cinchona calisaya product available.
Primary uses of Quina:
Quina has been used for centuries by native South Americans to treat a number of conditions.
It was one of the first South American medicinal plants to become known outside of the Americas. It was first used in Europe in the mid- 1600's and recognized by the British Pharmacopoeia in 1677.
Quinine, one of the four alkaloids in Quina known to have antimalarial properties, has been used to produce medicines to treat malaria for nearly 200 years. Malaria strains have mutated rendering these drugs far less effective causing researchers to re-evaluate the medicinal properties of whole plant extracts of Cinchona species such as Quina.
Quina is utilized by some health care professionals in the U.S. as an important component of a protocol after tickbites. It has been found to be very effective in treating these conditions and treating unwanted microbes in the intestines.
A toxicology study was conducted on Nutramedix Quina at the same University, and no toxic effects were reported even when laboratory animals received 240,963 times the equivalent human dose.
I am currently taking Levaquin, Rifampicin and proton pump inhibiter + Grapeseed Extract, Olive Leaf, Probiotics and supplements (like Magnesium, Co Q10 etc etc) Also been drinking a lot of detox green tea which seems to also strengthen my regime.
So i decided to try the Cowden nutramedix herbs and ordered Samento, Cumanda, Quina and Enula. Also got the burbur for detox and amantilla. And after day 3 to 4 wow i have felt the herx. Its still going not much fun.
I am now doing a lot of detoxing, these pathogens are unbelievable i don't know how they still survive after all the herxes and punishment i give it, it still hasnt gone away. I have to say i am a whole lot better than when i was sick, people dont even know i am sick now which is great.
But just would like to get rid of the last lot of twitching and crawling sensations and then i would be very happy.
I have been doing all this for around a year and like Sparkle said have people been through the big herxes and got to the remission stage without the crawling, achiness etc?
I am assuming i will be on the nutramedix stuff for some time after i finish antibiotics and i am sort of glad they make me herx because i think that means there doing the job.
Any wise words out there that may give me some encouragement!
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
I think sometimes the herxes are herxes and do help. When I have a big herx and move through it, i feel better than I did before the herx.
However, I have learned that some "herxes" aren't herxes at all, but the immune system over-reacting. My LLMD took me off Cumanda and Quina (which you alternate 12 1/2 days on, 36 hours off, then switch to the other) because he thought they were too immune stimulating for me to handle.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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sparkle7
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Member # 10397
posted
I agree with you 6.... I don't think all herxes are herxes.
I never had a big herx like I did from using the LightWorks while on abx. Also, I think I started out with taking too high a dose of the Quina. For some reason it says on the Cowden protocol to start off with 20 drops, twice a day.
I think that was too high & it's best to ramp it up.
It's my impression that the classic herxheimer reaction is not a huge reaction. It's just an increase in symptoms. It was first noticed in regards to syphilis when they would treat people for that. I think we are actually going through something different during the die off.
I've had increases in symptoms & I've also had mondo herxes. I think the definition is too vague.
I'm not taking abx so I don't have alot of side effects from drugs to deal with. I'm not sure if I'm having an auto-immune response. I have been feeling better in general, though.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Quina gave me tremendous air hunger a few times. I didn't take it for that long. The air hunger was intense to the point of being scary, but I also had the sense the Quina was doing something useful.
Posts: 929 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I take cumanda and enula. Had HUGE herxs with enula. Then I started taking it at the same time with amantilla, pinella, burbur and parsley detox. I can still feel the power of enula, but the herxes feel under control enough for me to ramp up. Been ramping up all week on enula and the herxes haven't impacted me....much.
Hey Sparkle where did u get that info on Quina? I'd like to check out some info on some other Nutramedix herbs.
-------------------- Current taking: Bactrim DS 3x Daily, Doxy 400mg 1x Daily, Rifampin 450mg (ramping up to 600mg) 1x Daily, Compounded Nystatin 150MU Caps 1x Daily, Plus supplements to come later. Posts: 60 | From California | Registered: Apr 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Foggy- it helps to research the herb if you can get the latin name. If you look at the label for the herb product - it usually has the latin name. Then, you google it... I like to cross reference stuff that way. You get more of a whole picture of the herb.
The ENULA gives me the runs. I had to take less than the regular dosage. I think it's a purgative. I didn't herx from it, though.
I did herx from the Cumanda. Mostly, an increase in pain.
I don't believe that I have any co-infections, so I may have different results from the herbs.
I went back on the protocol since I'm taking a break from using the LightWorks. I'm trying to see if I can alternate them. It's seems to be going quite well & I'm happy except fro the dramatic herxes.
They are rough but I have been feeling much better after they are over.
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groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304
posted
Dont know if this will help at all but for searching names in spanish add a (A) to the end of the US medical medicine name--Jay-
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I have to agree the Nutramedix herbs are powerful, and i know from my experience they are true herx's not any immune response.
I just wonder when the herx's eventually stop i have heard people eventually getting to the stage when they are remission and say they are no longer herxing, maybe it takes many years and obviously depends on the person and what they have.
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Jason- I think it's just part of an ongoing process. It also depends on how long you have been ill & which bacteria/viruses you have.
I'm very happy with using the LightWorks & the Cowden protocol! I've been ill for over 10 years.
I was just diagnosed with having Lyme about 1 - 1/2 - 2 years ago. It was a clinical diagnosis - all my tests for Lyme were negative but that's typical for this illness.
The LightWorks really brought my treatment to a whole other level, though.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
My acupuncturist recently muscle tested me for Quina and Banderol which I plan to start soon and ramp up slowly on.
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