posted
Just wondering if anyone has a teenager who's been affected psychologically by lyme and co-infections, have their symptoms get worse while on psych meds to help?
I know physical symptoms get worse, but do psychological issues and depression increase too?
Thanks!
Posts: 56 | From Downingtown, PA | Registered: Jun 2007
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
I know of someone with two teenaged boys who have lyme induced BI-POLAR issues.
I have also read enough to know that(and have personally experienced)problems in prescriptions
larger or increased when the desired results were not achieved with small doses....
So the bottom line on dosage's is that....
baby doses,
of ANY PSYCHOTROPIC drug, is recommended, in anyone, who has lyme or TBD's.
The things I experienced prior to knowledge of this was a completely opposite reaction or
behavior, which the drug was intended to correct....
So, if the prescribing md or shrink is unaware of this phenom with lymies....
someone had better tell them....
or you could very well have additional problems on your hands....
I would especially not fool around with a kid in the area of anti-depressants...
We all know the high incident reports of teenage suicides in the last decade or so....
which I would'nt be surprized to someday find a link to the AD/ADD/ADHD drugs
that are shoveled into our over active and not too attentive,
(to school gee I was ALWAYS ATTENTIVE THERE!?>>LOL!),
children...these days....not blameing you or anyone...
HOWEVER...the incidence of families moving out to the suburbs surrounding big cities
will someday be linked to a lot of personality disfunctional children...
and probably parents as well....
Because we have encroached upon the TICK's and small mammal's territory....
with fresh blood for them to sample!
OOOPS...got off the subject....!
Hope I answered your initial question as well as I could....
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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Although I can neither speak to the teen or the psych meds part of your question, I can say that psychological symptoms (at least for my child, now aged 6) initially got worse with abx, then gradually improved and are now gone.
We did not explore or pursue psych meds, I am just not that comfortable giving such medicine to a young child.
But if a teenager had the same symptoms that he had, I don't think they would be managable without psych meds. (I can handle an assaultive or threatening 5 year old, but a 15 year old would be a very different story!)
If it helps any, it took a good 6 months or so for the behavioral sx to resolve with our child, and they have not come back since.
It will get better. kp
Posts: 394 | From tinton falls nj | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Thanks for all the information. It's most appreciated!
Totally agree with the 5 vs. 15 yr old.
My daughter's had lyme along with co-infections since about 5 yrs old. Couldn't get anyone to help her until 8 yrs. So, had a long time to do damage.
She became severely depressed and tried committing suicide all the time and wished she was dead. Had to turn to anti-depressants at the age of 8. Greatly improved.
When she turned 12, all hell broke loose again in our house. She started cutting, trying to commit suicide on a daily basis, all her lyme symptoms became 100 times worse.
Had to put her on meds for bi-polar in addition to her anti-depressants. This helped until she had the IV Rocephin treatment begin...about 45 days ago.
Things have progressively turned worse again and I thought she may be herxing. Seeing as physical symptoms get worse, why wouldn't neuro and psych symptoms do the same.
Her LLMD says no, but I think he's wrong. Nothing else has been changed, so that's the only variable. So, now we're in a living nightmare once again.
Thanks for everyone's support and for the feedback. As always, it's most appreciated.
P.S. Thanks lymetoo for the info on lymemomtooo and Mo.
Posts: 56 | From Downingtown, PA | Registered: Jun 2007
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If your LLMD is not aware of this, I'd be a little perturbed! [/QB]
No kidding! He's a bit mixed up!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Shosty
Unregistered
posted
Our daughter was not having any psych. problems with Lyme, before she was treated When she went on tetracycline, she became psychotically bipolar. One minute she was waving at stop signs and laughing manically, and the next she had her head between her knees and was so down she could not talk. She also had some other weird stuff, that resembled absence seizures, and at times, could not do basic math like addition, but, at other times, could do algebra 2.
Her LLMD told me to keep her on the tetracycline, that this was a herx, and she would get through it. I wish I had not listened. The psychosis went on an on, maybe 2 months. Our daughter was no longer even there, mentally.
I took her to the PCP and said I wanted to try taking her off. Within two days, she was herself again, with some residual anxiety attacks for a few weeks. Unbelievable.
If your child is having psych. Lyme, I would recommend starting at very small dose of antibiotic, stick with it for a week at least, increase in small increments, and back off a bit if things suddenly get really bad.
I wish we had done that.
Seven years later, after being off abx for several years, our daughter had some psych. problems again, during senior year, perhaps triggered by all the stress of college applications and so on.
We did not choose to again try antibiotics. She did hypnosis and EFT (a form of acupressure). Then a micro dose of an SSRI. She is very well right now, and at college.
If a teen with Lyme tries ANY meds, we would suggest, again, micro doses, for a week or two, and any increase should be micro too. For an SSRI, our teenager started at 0.6 when the lowest dose/pill is 10mg. She ramped up to 2.5.
The MD first put her on 2.5 and her reaction was horrible. But after a gently ramping up, it is the perfect dose.
She also adjusted the timing. She takes it at 2 am, because first the SSRI makes her sleep, but then, after 5 hours, it makes her very alert. Si, she is making that work with her schedule.
If psych. issues are from Lyme, I would repeat: it might be safer to be cautious with dosing of antibiotics, and any other med too. Good luck!
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kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797
posted
My daughter was already on psyche meds before she was diagnosed. Depression/anxiety/OCD were some of her first symptoms.
A teenagers brain is evolving rapidly. If you choose to use SSRI's (my daughter was in her 11th hour, we were desperate), get a GOOD psychiatrist. Don't let your PCP or LLMD prescribe them. A teen's meds need to be monitored and, perhaps, changed frequently.
My daughter would do well, then 6-12 months later, it wouldn't work and she would have to transfer to another. Now that she is 20, she has found what works and hasn't changed.
To answer your question, any drug that crosses the blood brain barrier changes the chemicals in the brain. Toxins flood. There is going to be some psyche issues. Either she understands this and rides it out, or she could use medications.
There are some doctors who believe that anti-depressants aid healing. Some don't. We found that if my daughter's moods were more level, she could handle the herx's much easier.
Mepron was very hard on her. She maxed out her psyche meds and didn't smile for months.
If she is having a bad herx, ask your doctor if you can ramp up.
Do a search on here for depression and print them out for your daughter. Especially, any that list my name. Since my daughter was in her mid-teens starting this, maybe your child can relate.
Take care, mom. I know it's HARD. Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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shazdancer
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1436
posted
Do psych symptoms and depression get worse on depression meds?
Yes, they might. It could be a herx, if she is also on Lyme meds. Or it could be the wrong psych med for her. AND when hormones kick in at puberty, the meds that might have worked before may need to be adjusted or changed.
It's very important to report adverse reactions to the mental health pro who is prescribing them. He may want to make a change to keep her out of danger.
Take care, I know this is extremely rough to deal with,
Shaz
Posts: 1558 | From the Berkshires | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Once again, thank you to everyone for all the input. She does see a psychiatrist every month, and a psychologist every 2 weeks.
Makes sense about the meds needing changing and ramped up or down. Psychiatric visit was today and he kept things the same for now, but I'm to call if things get worse.
Also, he said we may have to change them next month. Today is a very bad day for her. Herxing very badly. She has been asleep since 11PM last night. Up for like 4 hours, now sleeping again, but all the time she was awake, she could barely move and was dozing.
I truly thank you all for the posts and taking the time to answer. It really means a lot to me. I'm at my wits end with wondering if it's lyme, co-infections, or truly psychiatric stuff.
She did have a SPECT scan in 2001 that was normal, but had another in 2007 and now it's abnormal.
Her LLMD right now has good and bad points. He was the only one willing to do IV and we had her on so many other oral meds that just didn't touch it.
He is helpful in some ways and in other ways seems clueless.
My whole family, including myself have lyme and co-infections, but she was the only one who seemed to be affected so badly in neuro and psych ways.
She has days when she can do difficult math, then days when she can't remember what she just read or read at all.
I have to go cry myself to sleep now. Posts: 56 | From Downingtown, PA | Registered: Jun 2007
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
I'm 19, restarted Ceftin last Monday after 12 days off, and have been completely non compos mentis since-- definitely a herx, as it happens whenever I add a new abx.
It will get better--so just hang in there and do what you need to do to manage the symptoms and keep her out of harm's way. I had been experiencing the most clarity and stability I'd had since getting sick before this latest episode began.
posted
Princesslee... Im not a dr, pyschologist, mental health expert, but Ive had neuro lyme for the past two years, and Ive coached teens in different sports for over a decade, so I can offer some different thoughts.
When it comes to the neuro lyme, unless you are going through it yourself, you really cant understand the turmoil your brain goes through. As you said, one moment, coherent, the next, out of it. Emotions swing wildly, swearing, inhibitions, rage, cry spells, are all normal as the brain tries to heal and sort out the mess that lyme has created. Lots of patience, hugs, and quiet moments will go a long way to help her. If it is menin/enceph, she'll wear out easily, and when tired, the personality changes occur. If she had meningitis or encephalitis, heres a great link:
As for using anti depressant, or other meds, I would use caution, and probably advice against it unless there is no other solution. While the mind is in turmoil with lyme to begin with, throwing in meds that affect the emotions, depressesion, etc, can makes things worse. As Ive read more then once, anti depressants have only a 50% success rate, and worse yet, you have to then wean right back off them again when things no longer work.
Probably the best advice for physical health is the simplest advice... eat the right foods, get plenty of sleep, reduce stress and anxiety, take appropriate abx and supplements, and boost the immune system as much as possible.
Mentally its important for her to know whats going on, and to be involved in any decisions that affect her, especially mentally. That means explaining what the different meds will do to her, how anti depressants may affect her.
Personally, I wouldnt advise a teen take anti depressants. Too many cases of it doing the reverse and pushing kids over the edge to suicide. When you described her being sleepy, dozing all the time, that sounds like pysch drugs, not herx abx related. Sleeping is good for the brain if its natural sleep, but not if its drug enduced and lasts throughout the day, or days.
Another area that could help is for your child to diary and track her symptoms. Its a great way for her to take some control in her life. Odds are right now she probably feels out of control, so this will give her an outlet to express her feelings, and track what is happening with her body. If she can see any signs in improvement, it will go a long way mentally of giving her strength to continue on, through the tough times. I cant emphasize enough how important it is for you to communicate with her and keep tabs on her behaviour, especially if its turning dark and suicidal. Usually your first instinct is your best one when it comes to intervening if things are going south, including removing her off meds, or, increasing if theres no other choice.
But keep your child involved with all the decisions. They need to know that they have control, they can have a say in what is happening to them.
I can relate to what shes going through neuro wise, and its not a picnic, nor is it anything people can really understand. So long as you listen to her, it will make it easier for you to help her. She needs to help herself, and you need to be the support for her, even when she freaks out, screams at you, etc. Its all the lyme, and being a teen with raging hormones and changes just makes it harder.
But all it takes is a sign that things are improving...and things will get better.
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