The long latent stage seen in syphilis, followed by chronic central nervous system infection and inflammation, can be explained by the persistence of atypical cystic and granular forms of Treponema pallidum. We investigated whether a similar situation may occur in Lyme neuroborreliosis.
Method
Atypical forms of Borrelia burgdorferi spirochetes were induced exposing cultures of Borrelia burgdorferi (strains B31 and ADB1) to such unfavorable conditions as osmotic and heat shock, and exposure to the binding agents Thioflavin S and Congo red.
We also analyzed whether these forms may be induced in vitro, following infection of primary chicken and rat neurons, as well as rat and human astrocytes.
We further analyzed whether atypical forms similar to those induced in vitro may also occur in vivo, in brains of three patients with Lyme neuroborreliosis.
We used immunohistochemical methods to detect evidence of neuroinflammation in the form of reactive microglia and astrocytes.
Results
Under these conditions we observed atypical cystic, rolled and granular forms of these spirochetes.
We characterized these abnormal forms by histochemical, immunohistochemical, dark field and atomic force microscopy (AFM) methods.
The atypical and cystic forms found in the brains of three patients with neuropathologically confirmed Lyme neuroborreliosis were identical to those induced in vitro.
We also observed nuclear fragmentation of the infected astrocytes using the TUNEL method.
Abundant HLA-DR positive microglia and GFAP positive reactive astrocytes were present in the cerebral cortex.
Conclusion
The results indicate that atypical extra- and intracellular pleomorphic and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi and local neuroinflammation occur in the brain in chronic Lyme neuroborreliosis.
The persistence of these more resistant spirochete forms, and their intracellular location in neurons and glial cells, may explain the long latent stage and persistence of Borrelia infection.
The results also suggest that Borrelia burgdorferi may induce cellular dysfunction and apoptosis.
The detection and recognition of atypical, cystic and granular forms in infected tissues is essential for the diagnosis and the treatment as they can occur in the absence of the typical spiral Borrelia form.
PMID: 18817547 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher
[ 10. October 2008, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: AliG ]
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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METALLlC BLUE
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Yeah, this came out 2 weeks ago. Another study to add to my long list of "persistent infection" study files.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
AliG
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Wouldn't this mean that IDSA'a recommended treatment, COULDN'T POSSIBLY WORK?!!!
It would force cysts that would open up at a later time.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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adamm
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So the cyst itself is? Wouldn't this make it impossible to have a full remission of the cognitive stuff?
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AliG
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With neuroplasticity your brain can work around damage. It can fire new pathways to information.
If you can stop the damage from repeatedly occurring, you still have hope.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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METALLlC BLUE
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You can kill these atyical forms. And you can reduce the inflammatory response. That's why we get Brain SPECT scans, to follow inflammatory patterns and hypoperfusion. Restricted blood flow, as a result of inflammation, often produces the hypoperfusion seens on the scans.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Vermont_Lymie
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quote:Originally posted by AliG: With neuroplasticity your brain can work around damage. It can fire new pathways to information.
If you can stop the damage from repeatedly occurring, you still have hope.
Exactly! And this an indication why treatment lasts so long and needs to cross the blood brain barrier. We need to address all the different forms of Bb, and in cells that can be immunologically privileged and I think, long-lived.
Thanks for posting this.
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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I'm wondering if this all means that you can have only the cystic form and still have symptoms. Because it sounds like the cystic form alone can cause inflammation, right?
Posts: 499 | From Indiana | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I know only by symptoms that the neuro cystic form does cause inflammation.
When I was on flagyl one of the symptoms was a feeling as if my brain was swelling. A few days off of flagyl I would get fluid coming out of my ears.
What I would like to know is what will happen to our brains in years to come. If it needs to fire new pathways over a long amount of time, how will this affect our processing abilities.
Posts: 101 | From NJ | Registered: Apr 2008
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AliG
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I think this would explain the encephalopathy, which causes those ongoing, "non-specific" symptoms.
I think that most of us have some periods of time when it is more difficult to process information than others.
I'm in the habit of trying to make my work whenever I am able to. I try to read books & studies, do crossword puzzles & sodoku as often as possible. I try to write down thoughts when I can.
If I can't do it one day, I'll try again the next. I've gotten to the point where I can tell pretty quickly whether I'll get anywhere with it.
Some days it's just impossible and there are times when I get so depressed that I just can't make myself do it. There are also long stretches when I'm buried in fatigue & brain fog.
I'm determined to beat these buggers somehow & I don't think I can do that if I let them disconnect ALL of my pathways. I have to keep dusting myself off refuse to let them defeat me. It gets SOOOoooo hard to fight sometimes.
There are also some sites about neuroplasticity. Some have "exercises" designed to trigger re-firing. I had found some of them a while back, through google.
A search on this site for "neuroplasticity" might turn them up.
I believe that your brain/spinal cord it pretty much a "sealed" system. I don't believe that you could leak cerebrospinal fluid through your ear. I would think that it would more-likely be sinus drainage.
If fluid could leak out through your ear, bacteria and other contaminants could get in the same way.
I'm too tired to research that right now, but I'm pretty sure it was more likely sinus drainage, perhaps the inflammation of your sinuses went down & allowed accumulated fluid from sinus or bathing to drain out.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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oxygenbabe
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Lets say the cystic/granular forms are fairly slow metabolizers and inert. This may be why as Cure Unknown explains, she finally got well by doing what Dr. B did--she took high doses of ceftin (high enuf for CNS and also I believe ceftin inhibits the proton pump by which bb pumps out antibiotics) until symptom free then let herself relapse COMPLETELY. That would be because the cysts/granules had come out when abx were gone and replicated like mad making you sick as could be and that's when they are vulnerable, so you whack 'em dead again. Do this 3 times or so.
It may be that people on long term abx therapy esp without proton pump inhibitors are, much of the time, taking stuff that isn't doing the job. You may need to pulse it to let bb come out of hiding and go crazy wild replicating.
I can't take abx but anyway.
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hi. gotta run to the hospital for my son, just caught my eye as i am shutting down the computer. can someone kindly take the time to PM me this link so that i may not forget to pick it up later?
thanks to whomever can do me this favor.......
mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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It definately is my sinuses draining. As for working my brain....most of the time any digging deep and working my brain gives me such a headache.
But what I find most annoying, is the fact that it feels as if I hit a brick wall and my brain just won't allow me to go any further. It's like I can't get approved for the access of the information. I am denied.
Whether it be my short term memory or long term or retaining what I just read or heard. It's so frustrating. When I push it I can feel the lyme getting so mad and the headaches are horrible.
What is proton pump inhibitors? Dr. B uses this protcol?
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AliG
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posted
I get the headaches too when I push too hard. Those are the days when I quit and try again another day.
here's some interesting info from a LLMD who believes in addressing the cyst form: JSC
I'll pm you Mo
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
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Up for Adamm, I think you missed this.
quote:Originally posted by AliG: With neuroplasticity your brain can work around damage. It can fire new pathways to information.
If you can stop the damage from repeatedly occurring, you still have hope.
I'm not sure if Ceftin or Biaxin really cross the BBB.
Does anyone else know this off-hand?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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adamm
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I know Biaxin does (although nevertheless, it's not done anything for me during the four months I've spent treating with it.)
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From what I was told about biaxin, it does not cross the bbb. It explained to me that flagyl is suppose to.
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AliG
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From what I understand, Roxithromycin is the only Macrolide known to cross the BBB.
Do you have a source for your information that Biaxin(clarithromycin) does?
I've been looking for hours & can't come up with anything.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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adamm
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Well I assume that ceftin does...
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Vermont_Lymie
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quote:Originally posted by AliG: From what I understand, Roxithromycin is the only Macrolide known to cross the BBB.
Do you have a source for your information that Biaxin(clarithromycin) does?
I've been looking for hours & can't come up with anything.
Ali, unfortunately this information is unpublished data. Will send you a PM.
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AliG
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Thanks Vermont. I tried to reply, but your mailbox is full.
I do think I recall Dr.B's guidelines saying that oral Zith that didn't cross well enough. I'll have to go look again to see if he mentioned Biaxin in there.
I do believe that any ABX that aren't addressing cysts would be causing them. I'm thinking that the choice is either to treat the cysts or try to keep them from opening up.
Neither one of those would be accomplished by IDSA's drivel.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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