I also found it interesting that the patients in that study were experiencing the list of symptoms down bellow for many months or years prior to treatment with IVIG.
But after treating the Parvovirus B19 infection with IVIG their symptoms improved significantly.
chronic fatigue deterioration in memory and concentration sore throat painful aching muscles new headaches difficulty sleeping unrefreshing sleep postexertional malaise an increased tendency to sweat dizzy spells blurred vision sensation of heat in the soles of her feet and hot dry eyes
Is it just me or is that list of Parvovirus B19 symptoms very similar to the symptoms caused by Lyme Disease?
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AliG
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quote:Surveillance criteria exclude some of the classic hallmark antibodies, such as the 31 kDa band (outer surface protein A or ospA) and the 34 kDa band (outer surface protein B or ospB).
In fact, the 31 kDa band is so tightly associated with Lyme borreliosis that a vaccine was made from that outer surface protein.
In other words, I believe that criteria that exclude the ospA (31 kDa) band should not be used to tell a patient they do not have Lyme borreliosis.
Band 31 is considered to be Bb specific, so possibly both?
This could be good, (I would think) as emla's posted study shows IVIG can be helpful for Parvo.
Perhaps, if some of the symptoms you are experiencing are due to Parvo infection, you might actually benefit from some IVIG. No?
I would think this could be good news for people who have both.
Thanks for posting that info emla!
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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That study showed that 50% of the patients with serologically confirmed Parvovirus B19 infection experienced neurological symptoms such as tingling and numbness in fingers and toes; and mild slowing of nerve conduction velocities.
The Parvovirus B19 patients in the study bellow complained with dizziness. After they were treated with IVIG their symptoms improved significantly.
AliG
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posted
Do you know....
I just was re-reading the ILADS quidelines & they list Parvovirus B19 as a rule out.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Long story short, I tested positive for cebv and parvo 15-16 months ago, after being sick for about that long; since that time, 10 months ago I tested positive for lyme. Have not done a lyme treatment but did do 9 months of antiviral valtrex for the ebv (and supposedly parvo)...not sure if it helped or not.....some docs say valtrex helps, some say it hurts more...honestly, I am to the point, I really don't know what or who to believe. But I have some theories..........
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emla999/Lyme
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posted
AliG,
That is interesting about the ILADS acknowledging the fact that Parvovirus B19 can mimic Lyme Disease.
Maybe the ILADS should invite the Dr.Isaac Melamed to speak at their next conference.
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emla999/Lyme
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posted
A little more about Dr. Isaac Melamed.
Dr. Isaac Melamed is a medical doctor that treats patients for persistent or chronic Parvovirus B19 infection.
Baculovirus can infect the human liver and is being used for commercial insect control?!!!
THAT does NOT sound good!
I'm just wondering, since Parvovirus B19 = Erythrovirus B19 crossreacts with Baculovirus, could one be infected via the Baculovirus pesticide method & test positive for Parvo B19?
[ 28. October 2008, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: AliG ]
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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emla999/Lyme
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posted
I don't know the answer to that question. But it would be interesting to know the answer.
I would assume that most people have not been exposed to the Baculovirus pesticide. So, if you test positive for a Parvovirus B19 infection then it is most likely because you caught it from another person.
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luvs2ride
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posted
Well, this is timely.
Last Thurs evening I had a stressful event and two hrs later I developed a red, itchy rash all over my entire body. It looked like a sunburn rather than hives. I took a hot baking soda bath which stopped the itching. The redness remained for 3 days and I felt sick. No fever. I stopped all meds for fear it was an alergic reaction. I had to take two more baking soda baths then the itching went away too.
My hands and feet began to ache reminiscent of my arthritis. I also developed low back pain which is not something I have ever had before. I found Parvovirus B19 on the internet and diagnosed myself. Like Just Don, I read that there is nothing you can do to treat it as it is a virus and that adults will sometimes develop arthritis in the hands and feet but that it usually goes away within 1 week to several months.
Because I have rheumatoid arthritis as a result of my lyme, I am already on top of ways to stop inflammation. I jumped back on my supplments. Doubled my Vit C and magnesium and drank a fresh carrot,celery,parsley,garlic,ginger juice daily. I also took an herbal colon cleanse to be sure I would have good bowel movements to move this sucker right on out.
Today is Wednesday and I am back to normal. The joint pain in my hands and feet are gone. I believe this "self-diagnosed" parvovirus has been flushed from my system. I will continue the extra precautions for 1 week to be sure.
I don't see my LLMD again until Dec 1 and will tell her about it at that time. Meanwhile, it seems the crisis is behind me and I really attribute my body's ability to fight it off so well to my diet.
Hubby got sick at the same time, but no rash. More sore throat and tired feeling. He did the same things I did and he too is back to normal.
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disturbedme
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posted
Is anyone going to answer the question: If you are IgG positive for Parvo, doesn't that mean past infection and not to worry about it?!? At least for the moment...?
Mine was positive IgG 4.1 or something and my IgM was negative.
But like someone else said, I'd think pretty much everyone would show positivre at some point for parvo since it IS usually caught during childhood for the first time.
Same thing goes for mycoplasma pneu and EBV, etc. Most of the population will show positive for that at some point as well.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
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emla999/Lyme
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"Conclusions: Prolonged parvovirus B19 viremia infection can be seen in spite of neutralizing IgG antibodies and in IgM negative patients.
Therefore, the presence of IgG antibodies in the ABSENCE of IgM antibodies should NOT always be interpreted as a past infection.
The infectivity of patients with persistent parvovirus B19 infection requires further studies"
So, if I understand correctly, having a negative IgM doesn't rule out the possibility that you may have a persistent Parvovirus B19 infection.
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AliG
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I started posting this link & got sidetracked, I don't remember why I was posting it right now.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
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posted
I believe that Dr. Montoya had expressed an opinion on this.
Perhaps it may be in one of Timaca's threads. ???
I'm not sure if it was an elevation of 3-4 times higher on the IgG that he considered to indicate a need for Tx.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
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Viruses are difficult to detect when they are chronic. It is very difficult to detect chronic infections of HHV-6 and EBV.
One reason is that 90% of us have been exposed to these viruses by early childhood and the viruses remain latent in our cells.
Therefore, in order to differentiate active from latent infection, tests must be done in the serum (the clear liquid portion of the blood) on the theory that in actively replicating virus, viral particles will leave the cell and spill into the plasma.
The problem is that, unlike most viruses, HHV-6 and EBV are very ``cell associated'' which means that the virus rarely leaves the cell.
In fact, with HHV-6, transmission is largely cell-to-cell or directly through the cell walls.
The net result is that it becomes very difficult to detect active infection because there are very few viral particles in the serum.
The other reason chronic infections are difficult to detect is that these viruses (especially HHV-6A) migrate to the central nervous system and other organs and away from the blood.
For example, HHV-6A has been found to persist in the spinal fluid long after it has disappeared from the plasma.
This means that indirect signs of the virus (antibodies to the viral proteins) become more important and antibody assays are more sensitive than molecular assays (PCR) for differentiating latent from active chronic infections.
PCR tests for HHV-6 & EBV. These tests are currently not useful for detecting most cases of Virus Induced CNS Dysfunction.
While PCR tests can easily detect primary HHV-6B roseola infections and acute mononucleosis, they are not sensitive enough to detect chronic, persistent central nervous system infections.
A negative PCR test done in serum or plasma is meaningless because the test itself is hopelessly insensitive.
At the same time, a positive PCR test on whole blood is also meaningless until a threshold is established that can distinguish between healthy controls and patients.
Since 90% of us have latent virus in the cells, a whole blood test will detect latent virus in the cells of healthy controls as well as patients.
Many healthy individuals, especially young adults, have detectable levels of latent virus in their whole blood.
Only a positive test in the plasma or serum is a significant result, although extremely rare.
Not one of Montoya's patients who benefited from antiviral treatment (and were subsequently determined to have active infections) was positive by PCR.
A high positive result for HHV-6 may mean that the patient has chromosomally integrated HHV-6.
This is a rare form of HHV-6 that is inherited and was found in 0.2% of the population in one large study in Japan.
HHV-6 Antibody Tests:
IgG Antibodies. These antibody levels indicate that a person has had an infection at some point in the past; at high levels they can suggest (but not prove) that the virus is active.
Much more research is needed on this question but in one study of HHV-6 in CFS patients, 89% of the patients with HHV-6 IgG antibody titer of 1:320 and above were found to have active infections by culture (Wagner 1996).
Results vary by laboratory, but at most commercial labs, healthy adults have titers of 1:40 to 1:160.
Sometimes a different ELISA assay is used and the results are reported as an index.
These index scores can also vary by laboratory depending on the manufacturer of the kit.
Young adults may have unusually high antibodies due to reactivation during mononucleosis.
IgM Antibodies. This is not a very useful test. Although it is worth testing once, this result is rarely positive in patients with chronic viral infections.
Typically IgM titers persist only for a few weeks after the primary infection.
Just because the IgM is normal does not mean that you don't have an active infection; many clinicians are not aware of this fact.
EBV Antibody Tests:
Antibody testing for EBV is more complicated. There are three different types of EBV assays offered at commercial laboratories.
These antigens are the viral capsid antigen (VCA), the early antigen (EA), and the EBV nuclear antigen (EBNA).
In addition, differentiation of immunoglobulin G and M subclasses to the VCA can often be helpful for confirmation.
The optimal combination of EBV serologic testing consists of the antibody titers to all four markers: IgM and IgG to the VCA, antibody to the EA
Viral Capsid Antibodies (VCA). IgG antibodies to the viral capsid antigen develop 2 to 4 weeks after onset of the initial and then persist for years, at gradually declining levels.
Drs. Montoya and Kogelnik at Stanford have found that patients with elevated antibodies to VCA IgG and HHV-6 antibodies respond to antivirals, and the VCA titers dropped significantly with treatment, suggesting that elevated VCA titers represent active infection.
This test is not definitive since many healthy adults have relatively high antibodies as well.
A high titer in a 45 year old is far more significant than the same titer in a 20 year old.
IgM antibody tests are not very useful since they are typically found only in primary or initial infections, not chronic or reactivated infection.
Early Antigen (EA) Antibodies. IgG. The early antigen (EA) antibody appears during active replication phase and generally falls to low levels after 3 to 6 months.
Most healthy adults have very low levels of early antigen; higher levels however can be a sensitive marker of active infection in chronic disease.
There is consensus that a titer of 1:640 is indicative of active disease, and that a titer of less than 1: 80 suggests there is a far smaller chance of an active infection.
Results vary by laboratory and much more testing needs to be done to establish cutoff values, but the early antigen IgG antibody test remains our best clue for active infection.
Again, IgM elevations are typically found only in a primary infection, not a reactivated infection, so the IgM test is usually not very meaningful for chronic infections.
Epstein-Barr Nuclear Antigen Antibodies (EBNA).
Antibody to EBNA is not seen in the acute phase, but slowly appears 2 to 4 months after onset, and persists for life.
Most physicians use of this test is to determine if an EBV infection is the initial infection or a secondary/ reactivated infection.
A low EBNA in the presence of a high VCA titer suggests an immune deficiency.
For reactivated infections, only the absolute level of the IgG titer usually significant.
Interpreting Results from Commercial Laboratories
There are several commercial laboratories that will test for HHV-6 and EBV.
However, not all labs use the same metric.
For example, Focus Diagnostics and Specialty Laboratories use an IFA method with results reported as titers (1:80, 1:160 etc).
Other labs such as Mayo Clinic, Quest and Labcorp use the ELISA method and report with an index.
There is no standard data publicly available that would allow patients to compare IFA and ELISA scores.
The Stanford group currently conducting a trial of Valcyte for these viruses uses Focus Diagnostics as their reference laboratory because they are familiar with their scale and can interpret the results.
The best way to interpret the results from your laboratory is to ask your doctor to find out median and range values at the laboratory for controls or blood donors.
If your result is in the top quartile you are more likely to have an infection, but there is no way to know for certain.
Patients who are immunosuppressed and have a low IgG may show up with low antibody levels in spite of active disease.
If the IgG is low normal or below normal, then the HHV-6 and EBV antibody test results may also be suppressed.
Similarly, some patients with very high IgG may have high EBV and HHV-6 antibody levels that do not indicate active disease.
These considerations need to be evaluated by a knowledgeable physician.
[ 30. October 2008, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: AliG ]
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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emla999/Lyme
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posted
I got this from the Miranda Mission Human Parvovirus Discussion Group.
This person is talking about chronic Parvovirus B19 and treatment with IVIG. Its message #3.
"My experience with IVIG has been very positive so far. The infusion center that I go to does this regularly so they have it down to a science.
Also, after my first IVIG and just before my second the doctors ran blood work again. When I was first diagnosed my PARVO numbers were 6.5 IgM and 6.2 IgG.
Before my second IVIG they took blood work and my PARVO numbers were 3.5 IgM and 5.1 IgG. Still active PARVO but getting better.
Also my PARVO PCR numbers are getting better but I don't have those exact numbers. I also have noticed my symptoms getting better and/or gone.
I still have a chronic fever, mild fatigue, joint aches but not too bad, and ringing ears.
The "jerks" that you looked up for me are significantly less and my hands and feet don't tingle or go numb anymore. My tremors are gone too.
I am functioning at about 70-80% of "normal". I certainly have not gone back the the gym yet or anything but I am participating in life much more."
That person's "Parvo B19" symptoms were; hands and feet tingled and/or numb, tremors, muscle jerking, fatigue, joint aches, ringing ears and chronic fever.
And apparently after that person was diagnosed with PARVO and given IVIG treatments many of those symptoms improved or resolved completely.
I just find all of this to be very interesting.
Chronic Parvovirus B19 can mimic the symptoms of Chronic Lyme Disease. Having a Parvovirus B19 infection can make you test positive for Lyme Disease via the Western Blot test.
Parvovirus B19 can become a chronic infection in some people. And Parvovirus B19 seems to affect women more severely than it does men.
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emla999/Lyme
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I am not sure if antiviral drugs can help with Parvovirus B19 or not. Based upon what I have read IVIG seems to be the only recommended treatment available for Parvo B19.
I have read that Transfer Factor is helpful in treating viral diseases such as EBV. So, I have been wondering if a Transfer Factor product containing Parvo B19 specific transfer factors would be helpful in treating Parvo B19.
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AliG
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posted
Thanks for that info! I knowingly have EBV. I'll have to check into the Transfer Factor.
An LLMD had recommended it to me & I completely forgot about it.
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emla999/Lyme
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posted
Here's another study showing that Parvovirus B19 can cause symptoms very similar to Lyme Disease.
AliG
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posted
Thanks for the new study links and for bringing up this thread again.
I had forgotten about the Transfer Factor AGAIN!!!
Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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momintexas
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posted
Bumping up - lots of good info
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IckyTicky
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posted
So... the only thing you can do to get to feeling better from the parvo virus is IVIG?
That stinks
I wonder if my muscle twitches are caused by it.
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momintexas
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I was also wondering if IVIG was the only option......
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I'll have to check into the Transfer Factor. ![[hi]](graemlins/hi.gif)
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