posted
Does anyone know how to break up these biofilms that continue to allow all us to remain sick? An MIT student has found groundbreaking discovery on biofilms in infectious disease.
Getting Rid of Gut Biofilm and The Critters It Protects
Posted: 12 Oct 2008 09:42 PM CDT
Biofilm is thought by some LLMD's to be one of those "snags" to healing Lyme disease. As mentioned in a previous post, sometimes bacteria and other microbes cloak themselves in biofilm, a polysaccharide matrix comprised of minerals, metals and other elements, to protect themselves from anti-microbial treatments, which prevents antibiotics and other Lyme strategies from being fully effective.
When biofilm exists in the gut, it also disturbs digestion and prevents normal flora (like acidophilus) from thriving. If you have persistent dysbiosis, mysterious gut pain, or a borrelia infection that simply isn't responding to treatments, consider the possibility that biofilm may be impeding your progress.
Unfortunately, medicine is still in its infancy when it comes to understanding biofilm and its role in Lyme disease. It is even less equipped to offer effective treatments that will break it down so that microbes can be accessed and eliminated.
Combining enzymes with heavy metal chelators (since the biofilm is comprised in part, of metals), and taking these on an empty stomach, is thought to be one potentially effective strategy for "punching holes" in the biofilm and thereby breaking down the bugs' protective polysaccharide blankies.
Once this is done, then the Lyme sufferer can take anti-microbials to attack bacteria, yeast and other bugs. Subsequently, toxin binders can be ingested to clean up the mess left behind by the dead critters.
Tentatively, some of the enzymatic products that are currently being used for the hole-punching process include: SPS 30 (www.theramedix.net) and Mucostop by Enzymedica (www.enzymedica.com).
Other enzymes that are being experimented with for Lyme sufferers with gut biofilm include: Lumbrokinase, Rechts-Regulat and serrapeptase.
These latter enzymes, incidentally, are also widely used for hypercoagulation in Lyme. (So you might be able to kill two birds with one stone here; that is, break down biofilm while treating hypercoagulation).
Gut biofilm toxin binders, according to Dr. A. Derksen, a Lyme-literate N.D., include: fiber, clays, zeolites, chlorella, modifilan, apple pectin, butyrate, bentonite and activated charcoal.
A heavy metal protocol may comprise any myriad of options, which I have discussed (and will continue to discuss) in other blog posts.
In the meantime, how do you know if you have gut biofilm? Well, isn't that always the question in Lyme disease? We never seem to know what's wrong with us, do we?
My humble suggestion (which should never to be taken as medical advice! I'm just a researcher, not a medical expert), if you have any of the above-named conditions, and are actively chelating metals and treating hypercoagulation, would be to take your chelator, if possible, at the same time that you take your enzymes for hypercoagulation.
After that, take your bug-killers, and over time, see if that seems to be more effective than the schedule that you used to follow for taking all of the above.
If you aren't chelating metals or taking enzymes already, deciding whether to treat for biofilm may be a tougher decision. In any case, I would advise seeking out a biofilm-literate Lyme doctor (which are bound to be even more scarce than LLMD's).
I don't know how seriously we should take the idea of biofilm and its role in Lyme disease. Perhaps more than we have been, but not to the exclusion of other roadblocks to healing, as there are often many. This is just another one you may want to consider
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Angelica
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posted
I think Dr. Schaller says in his recent article that enzymes do not work on biofilms but some essential oils might that are in things like Listerine but he did not say what to really use so until he publishes his next book I am going to use enzymes.
posted
there was a recent article, which can be found on the PubMed site about biofilms.
It was talking about EDTA with abx being able to hit them.
However, the bacteria was P. aeruginosa I want to say.. not Borrelia.
Biofilms are difficult because it's almost as if they're in their own little 'bunker' and are Very Resistant to treatment.
-------------------- ...trying to be the coffee bean, not the egg. Posts: 420 | From East Coast | Registered: Jun 2008
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hiker53
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Member # 6046
posted
ByronSBell said Dr. R in Missouri uses a combo of heparin, enzymes and a product called calciclear to break the biofilm. Lumbrokinase or the weaker nattokinase might be safer than heparin as heparin is a pretty strong blood thinner.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8905 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
I was out of MucoStop so bought some more yesterday. I never knew it might be a biofilm buster until reading Connie's article posted above.
I took some before bed last night and woke up tired but feeling better than I had been. I took some more this morning and am feeling even better. It is probably too soon to tell if it is really working but I plan to keep taking it for a while. Does anyone know where to buy it for the best price? It is a bit costly.
Who else is taking something for biofilms and are you noticing improvements?
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Hoosiers51
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Member # 15759
posted
Angelica,
Hope this is not a rude question because I know you have talked a lot about metals, but in your opinion, if I want to start to chelate with the intention of working on my biofilms, what should I take?
What would be a "gentle" way to at least do some sort of basic chelation? What should I take? Chlorella? I don't want to unearth the metals that might be trapped in my organs or brain from childhood (right now at least...since I'm on so many drugs).....I just want to do enough to ensure the biofilms can be dissolved.
What should I take for that?
Thanks Angelica!
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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Hoosiers51
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Member # 15759
posted
Also, would Wobenzym (taken on an empty stomach) be a sufficient enzyme to take with the chelators?
That is what I happen to use now, but if it's not enough I would be willing to buy something different.
Also, does monolaurin have an effect on biofilms?
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
I wish I knew more about biofilm busting and metals but I am just learning about this subject myself.
I took a Zeolite product called ZeoActive8 for heavy metal removal. Mine was sold to me already opened and someone posted that those were altered samples so who knows what I really took. I do plan to get my herd of mercury fillings removed and then go to Germany for treatment.
I do take Chlorella by Source Naturals but may need to take a better brand but it does seem to at least bulk up my stools.
I just started taking MucoStop. I am hoping someone else will come along and give you better answers.
I would just like with probitoics switch and mix up any enzymes you take to bust biofilms once in awhile.
"Gut biofilm toxin binders, according to Dr. A. Derksen, a Lyme-literate N.D., include: fiber, clays, zeolites, chlorella, modifilan, apple pectin, butyrate, bentonite and activated charcoal."
I think apple pectin would be a good way to bind things in a gentle way. The trouble is finding an organic apple pectin. Charcoal might help too. Clay I would think would be gentle.
Maybe check out Lyme Bytes blog for her articles on dealing with heavy metals and see what she suggests.
I bet someone else can answer your question about monolaurin because I really don't know. I do know it is suppose to have properties like a gentle antibiotic.
Sparkle did mention she saw biofilms coming out when she was using the Light Works. Light in some form maybe the way to go.
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SForsgren
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posted
I think it is important to consider that the biolfilms we likely really need to get at are not just gut biofilms but biofilms in the blood and elsewhere in the body protecting the bugs. Many of the gut biofilm options are likely not absorbed systemically in such a way that would impact biofilms that are not in the gut (pectin, etc.).
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Angelica
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posted
Scott any ideas on what to take?
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Hoosiers51
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posted
Scott,
I was looking at the Better Health Guy website and saw you recommended the BioPure brands of Chlorella and Cilantro as options.
Is there any data available as to the purity of Biopure's Chlorella?
Would the cilantro help me eliminate enough of what is stirred up safely? I feel like I can't do "too much" stirring up of metals at this point, because I'll be herxing on my Rifampin and Minocycline as it is.
So would Chlorella still be a "go"?
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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lymie_in_md
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posted
It appears grapefruit juice is active against biofilm formation and disrupts bacterial communication. So to add grapefruit juice, oregano oil, with other essential oils might completely disrupt biofilms from forming as well as destroying them.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Hoosiers51
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posted
I know that grapefruit juice can seriously interact with certain medications because of a liver detox pathway issue.
It doesn't seem like this could be corrected by drinking the juice 3 hours away from prescriptions since it's not an issue relating to the GI.
Wonder if all this matters. I always crave grapefruit juice though, so it would be nice to be able to guzzle it down! Hmmm
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Y'all, there is a ton of additional information on this subject on this forum. Do a search on "biofilm" (subject only) and you will find hundreds of useful references.
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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lymie_in_md
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posted
hoosiers, just have to put it in your routine a time you can drink it.
i think lemons with the white part also impact biofilm and disrupt formation (couldn't find a study). i think the liver pathway is important and by drinking these bitter citrus drinks we open that pathway and energize the body to detox. I sense lemon from doing both is more powerful then grapefruit as long as you have the white part. and don't get caught up (IMHO) those silly 10 day lemon detox cleanses.
all this may take awhile, and i know some one is going to ask for proof, they always do. well, i haven't got any! so i'll answer that right off.
you can try it and see if helps, if it doesn't stop doing it. check with your llmd if it makes you feel better.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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clairenotes
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posted
In the early stages of my illness when I was extremely sick, I craved grapefruit juice! It seemed to help me with hydration, which was a problem at the time. I was worried about getting too much sugar, so I just held small amounts of it on my tongue so it could quickly absorb. That seemed to satisfy, somehow. I also felt that there was something deeper happening but unable to put my finger on what it was.
But in looking back, I don't feel that I had strong issues with biofilms as others spoke of here, so perhaps that was what was happening.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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