posted
For those trying to avoid candida, why are things like mushrooms and blue cheese bad? I know mushrooms are fungi and blue cheese is made with fungi but these are totally separate species than candida all together.
My doc says yeasted breads are fine as long as they aren't made from white flour. He couldn't give me a straight answer on mushrooms and blue cheese, other than for some people, candida knocks out the enzymes we need to digest these foods. Okay, so use a digestive enzyme. I use Digest Gold. It let me eat what ever I wanted for a whole 2 years on abx! Then I got a moderate candida problem, no thrush or even near the horrible symptoms I hear people here talk about.
Okay I'm getting of onto a tangent here but still I won't accept such religious answers as, we are trying to avoid foods with fungi in order to make it easier on our bodies to fight candida. That makes no sense since our bodies don't really even fight the candida, we need meds to take those lil suckers out.
-------------------- Current taking: Bactrim DS 3x Daily, Doxy 400mg 1x Daily, Rifampin 450mg (ramping up to 600mg) 1x Daily, Compounded Nystatin 150MU Caps 1x Daily, Plus supplements to come later. Posts: 60 | From California | Registered: Apr 2007
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
I dont like blue cheese but I kept eating mushrooms and cheese all through my treatmnts.
As long as mushrooms are cooked .
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Mushrooms are fabulous. Simply fabulous. Great nutrients.
Cheeses, too, can be a concentrated source of nutrition (as long it does not create phelgm that hangs around the back of the throat or sinuses). From happy cows or goats is best: free range, organic diet . . . . Goat cheese can work for some who cannot eat cow cheese.
I've had to give up dairy due to the phelgm - my ears are affected. But, for some, it can work. And, yet, the guy who wrote the book: "Don't Drink Your Milk" has some interesting points.
Your doctor may be correct for you - for now - but I'd ask WHY. Some here may come along and shine a light on that but, still, you also need to know exactly why your doctor thinks this is important.
Cheese can carry a lot of mold. Some more than others. Blue Cheese may be up there on his list. It would not so much be not wanting more fungi to feed on but your body's reaction to that immediately as you eat it. It can create a strong response that can be a burden on a weakened body.
Maybe someone in the office can tell you over the phone - or ask if they have some literature they would like to share on the subject. I find it's always great to get reading suggestions from a doctor so I know what s/he thinks is important and, again, why.
posted
fungi feeding yeast. I have not heard of this. I had no clue candida were cannibals. I was informed they just ate sugars, and starches. In all my research I have never seen that fact, and I have researched plenty. Can you or any other Lymenet member agreed to this and provide some sort of documentations or studies on this?
Also how do they contribute to candida? They are a separate type of mold. I have never heard of brewers adding molds to they're wines , but sugars and starches yes.
-------------------- Current taking: Bactrim DS 3x Daily, Doxy 400mg 1x Daily, Rifampin 450mg (ramping up to 600mg) 1x Daily, Compounded Nystatin 150MU Caps 1x Daily, Plus supplements to come later. Posts: 60 | From California | Registered: Apr 2007
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I've got no science for you, but something recently happened to reveal how mushrooms can activate yeast, or unbalance the system in favor of yeast.
Not cooked mushrooms, I eat cooked mushrooms often and do fine.
But I took an Immune support dose of two capsules of all sorts of different kinds of mushrooms one morning. That night .... yeast. The yeast persisted for three days until I took diflucan.
However, I have taken this product in the past without this reaction, so it seems to depend on things I am unaware of....possibly within the immune system.
"Candida starts to develop in the gut as a fungus, and at the same time creates its ideal environment inside the gut."
Interesting to me too, as I really suffer with this FUNGUS!!! GGRRRRR
It's crazy that we take Transfer Factor and it has Mushrooms listed. Maybe I best stop that product. It's expensive besides.
Posts: 212 | From Arizona | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Read the article. As usual, most articles like these conflict with each other drastically, and provide little to no explanation why? Didn't say why I can't eat mushrooms just said that I can't. Hard to trust that.
Heck it didn't even mention dairy, milk is pretty high in sugar so I avoid it. I've read many of these article and none of them give explanations. Still doesn't answer my question.
And could someone let me know whats wrong with yeast breads. Especially if their not white.
Painted turtle, are u taking anything else besides diffucan to combat the yeast. Its best to supplement with anti yeast herbs.
-------------------- Current taking: Bactrim DS 3x Daily, Doxy 400mg 1x Daily, Rifampin 450mg (ramping up to 600mg) 1x Daily, Compounded Nystatin 150MU Caps 1x Daily, Plus supplements to come later. Posts: 60 | From California | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by FoggyInLA: fungi feeding yeast. I have not heard of this. I had no clue candida were cannibals. I was informed they just ate sugars, and starches. In all my research I have never seen that fact, and I have researched plenty. Can you or any other Lymenet member agreed to this and provide some sort of documentations or studies on this?
Also how do they contribute to candida? They are a separate type of mold. I have never heard of brewers adding molds to they're wines , but sugars and starches yes.
Thank you for saying exactly what I wanted to say. Some of this "candida diet" is absolutely ridiculous! There is absolutely no reason I can possibly think of to avoid mushroooms because "they are a fungus"! Candida (a yeast/fungus) does not eat other fungi! It feeds off of sugars and starches.
That is like saying if you have a lyme disease (a bacterial infection) that you shouldn't take probiotics because they contain bacteria! And we all know this isn't true!
We need to take back our right to eat things! There is nothing wrong with eating a relatively normal diet, while attempting to minimize starches/sugars. But, to the person who is considering stopping a transfer factor because it has "mushrooms" in it, that is insane.
Posts: 99 | From Bucks County, PA | Registered: Aug 2008
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charlie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25
posted
....some of these rules we're supposed to just accept as gospel are ridiculous.
I'm pretty much well and I ate and drank what I wanted although starches aren't to my taste much and neither is sugar.
But really folks....among these are the 'rule' that alcohol feeds the spirochetes. Alcohol is a diuretic is the reason we ought to avoid it since this clears the abx thru the kidneys too fast. And too many who don't feel well use it to alter moods is another caution.
and....doxy becomes bactericidal at higher doses. Could some pharmacologist please 'splain that to us?
The one I talked to about both of these said they were not based on anything scientific. Doxy is doxy...it's bacteriostatic.
so are both biaxin and bactrim in the doses we normally use.
I bet there are more of these...all having pretty much the same credibility as the old 'rule' that you shouldn't go out in the sun without covering up and using sunscreen.
Charlie
Posts: 2804 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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For the amount of complex carbs or whether to eat mushrooms can vary for each person.
However, the medical advice for lyme patients about alcohol seems solid. Alcohol is to be avoided mainly because it's very toxic to the liver. It can also eat away at the lining of the stomach.
For a healthy person without infections, the liver is usually able to process modest amounts just fine. Alcohol requires the liver detox pathway Cytochrome P-450. That pathway is really stressed for most lyme patients.
Alcohol can also cause dehydration of the body - and brain. That is never a good thing.
For lyme patients, there is already an overload of toxins, so alcohol creates a more toxic state. Lyme can damage a liver and create fibrosis. For anyone with fibrosis, alcohol can cause further - and permanent - damage. Mixing alcohol with any drug can decrease the effectiveness of a drug and risk side-effects from the combination.
It's hard enough for the liver to process the spirochetal toxins and all the medicines but adding alcohol to that can prevent recovery. Liver enzymes tests can help but much of the liver's functions cannot be tested and only shows up after accumulated damage.
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[ 25. October 2008, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
Alcohol and sugar also weaken the immune system.
Do I still use them? Ashamed to say yup, sometimes I still do.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
With the blue cheese, I think some people just have a "sensitivity" to it. Blue cheese and gorgonzola trigger migraines for me now, and they didn't before. Lyme can make us more sensitive to things.
Maybe it's the addition of the fungus that's in the blue cheese that sends me over the top. Not saying it "feeds" anything though. It triggers the migraine almost instantly, so it is a sensitivity, not a feeding frenzy.
That doesn't answer your question though....but that is why "I" avoid blue cheese.
The thing I've noticed about alcohol is that a couple hours later I get the buzzing in my ears, VERY loudly. That in itself scares me enough to avoid alcohol like the plague, for fear of the awful unexplained high pitched buzzing.
Sometimes alcohol will make me relapse almost instantly and I have a hard time getting that progress that I made back, even for months (this is even with mild or moderate drinking, one night) Maybe it is something that either happens or doesn't happen amongst individuals with Lyme.....you can either handle it or you can't.
I think people know their bodies. More power to the people that CAN handle it. For example, I do okay with sugar. When I have done very very strict diets using no refined carbs (for months), then cheated, I noticed no difference. So I think it varies person to person.
This is a tangent, so I apologize......I know you are just trying to get your question answered, and I can't answer it!!! In general anti-candida diets don't help me much.....the things that my Lyme finds most "offensive" are artificial sweeteners and alcohol.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Its funny how all the people who think they have an answer for me, post once and then disappear. I don't mean to call u out but I do honestly want a straight answer. I didn't start this thread to bash the Diet I simply wanted to be clarified on certain things that did not make sense.
Frankly I hate to say this nut unless someone else can answer me conclusively it is looking more superstition, than reason.
Lymetoo, so you are saying that candida literally eat mushrooms, and the mold from blue cheese? I can understand if the yeast gives you a sensitivity to this(that could be for not using the right digestive enzymes, and HCL tabs), but as to say that yeast eat yeast? I have never heard of a mushroom beer, or liquor. Starch beer yes.
I've read your diet many times, and many things foods on there provide no explanation. Makes me weary. I need reasons. Some things on your diet even conflict with DR B's guidelines. Frankly all the Candida diets conflict somewhat. Makes me weary.
The foods we can't eat of course stand out. But foods like yeasted bread, mushrooms, blue cheese. No one has been able to tell me exactly why to avoid these foods. To your link read my link from my first post. This doctor makes a bit more sense.
-------------------- Current taking: Bactrim DS 3x Daily, Doxy 400mg 1x Daily, Rifampin 450mg (ramping up to 600mg) 1x Daily, Compounded Nystatin 150MU Caps 1x Daily, Plus supplements to come later. Posts: 60 | From California | Registered: Apr 2007
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
Because they taste absolutely horrible
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
Here's a solid answer: until studies are done, everything is just a guess
Peronally, I think mushrooms are harmful to the body because they are a fungus. Ok, so fungus doesn't feed fungus, but fungus digested, it still fungus.
Just as eating peanuts and peanut butter are not clean eating. Peanuts are pure fungus.
Sure, some people can eat mushrooms and peanuts w/out any ill effect, just like some can drink a 40 of vodka a week and feel ok. It doesn't mean it's good for you.
I cannot eat mushrooms, peanuts (and even cheeses) w/out getting any ill effects. When I stay away from fugus, I digest well, I have normal bm's. I feel strong. When I eat these foods, I get yellow diarrhea, fatigue and major bloating.
There are not enough studies done on foods or their causes to really pin down a SURE answer. For now, like with lyme, everythng is trial and error
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posted
I think we all just need to really do our best to be observant of how foods are tolerated individually.
Alcohol really goes right to my head now from the neurolyme and that's just obvious for me. Although at times I will have an occasional glass of wine and then sometimes really pay for it.
I think even our bodies are constantly changing. Some cheeses are toxic to me, I react with vomiting and great pain, but other cheeses I do fine with.
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