posted
On searching the web (where I found you all!), I've read comments where people mention that their Lyme Disease is from a spider bite, but I can't find anything definitive (that is, something that will convince my doctor). Does anyone have a link?
If this is possible, is there any difference in the treatment of Lyme's from a spider (as opposed to from a tick)? I am on 21 days of doxycycline (100mg 2x day) after a positive Lyme's test (two weeks after a spider bite). I realize that this is a standard treatment for Lyme Disease and hope that there is no difference in treatment for Lyme's from a spider.
Thank you.
Posts: 4 | From NJ | Registered: Oct 2008
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Where did you see that Lyme was transmitted via spider bite? Do you have a link?
I know sometimes a tick bite can be confused with a spider bite. They are both arachnids.
I hadn't heard about transmission via spider bite though. Spiders don't usually feed on animals, they eat insects.
200 mg/day is a bacteriostatic dose of Doxy. Generally 3-400mg would be bactericidal, depending on your size, I believe.
If you had Lyme Disease symptoms following a "spider bite" and tested positive for Lyme, perhaps you did not know that a tick had been attached. Many people never see the tick.
If you are symptomatic & also had a positive Lyme Test, you should likely be tested for co-infections, as well.
Increasingly, clinicians recommend that certain drugs used for Lyme disease be given at higher daily doses: for example, 3000-6000 mg of amoxicillin, 300-400 mg doxycycline and 500-600 mg of azithromycin.
Some clinicians prescribe antibiotics using blood levels to guide higher doses. Close monitoring of complete blood counts and chemistries are also required with this approach.
With higher doses, there may be an increase in adverse events in general and gastrointestinal problems in particular.
Acidophilus has reportedly reduced the incidence of C. difficile colitis and non-C. difficile antibiotic-related diarrhea.
Serious adverse effects of antibiotics, however, were less common than previous estimates.
In a recent clinical trial of chronic Lyme disease, the overall serious adverse event rate was 3% after three months of antibiotics, including 1 month of intravenous antibiotics [23].
Clinicians who have experience with higherdose antibiotic therapy must balance the benefit of higher drug levels achieved with this therapy against the modest risk of gastrointestinal and other side effects.
Research is needed to determine the added benefits of higher doses of antibiotics in chronic Lyme disease.
29. Duration of therapy
Because of the disappointing long-term outcome with shorter courses of antibiotics, the practice of stopping antibiotics to allow for a delayed recovery is no longer recommended for patients with persistent, recurrent and refractory Lyme disease.
Reports show failure rates of 30-62% within 3 years of shortcourse treatment using antibiotics thought to be effective for Lyme disease [3,4,12].
Conversely for neurologic complications of Lyme disease, doubling the length of intravenous ceftriaxone treatment from 2 to 4 weeks improved the success rate from 66 to 80% [12,51].
The management of chronic Lyme disease must be individualized, since patients will vary according to severity of presentation and response to previous treatment.
Concurrent risk factors (i.e., coinfections, previous treatment failures, frequent relapses, neurologic involvement, or previous use of corticosteroids) or evidence of unusually severe Lyme disease should lead to the initiation of prolonged and/or intravenous antibiotic treatment.
Physicians should always assess the patient's response to treatment before deciding on appropriate duration of therapy (i.e., weeks versus months).
Welcome to the site & sorry you have to be here. Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
I wouldn't worry so much about spider vs. tick as
I would that I tested positive for Lyme disease.
You really need to find a Lyme literate Medical Doctor asap.
Post in Seeking a Doctor with your state and city.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I got what looked like a spider bite (could have been a tick, or a MOSQUITO), then months later, came down with a lot of Lyme symptoms and then tested positive.
My ex-llmd said Lyme is transmitted by spiders? Because they are part of the Arachnid family? I never knew to believe him or not?
-------------------- ~*~Lyme POW~*~
I will escape. Posts: 100 | From n/a | Registered: Oct 2008
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
EMERGENCY! That dose is only half of what you need to kill the bacteria, and proceeding with only this tretment will ENSURE that you develop chronic Lyme. You've got to go now and do whatever it takes, to get enough doxycycline so that you can dose with 400 mg/day for 3 months. Some very good treatment guidelines, those of a Dr. Burrascano, are at the top of the board and are definitely worth consulting.
After you've gotten sufficient quantities of antibiotics, you need to find a physician in your state who treats more or less in accordance with those guidelines. There are probably fewer than 100 of them nationwide, but unfortunately they are the only ones who can be trusted to administer appropriate follow-up care.
Sorry to scare you, but this is nothing to mess around with; soon after the infection disseminates, it becomes incurable. You most likely only have a matter of days to, at most, a couple of weeks to stop this thing. Got to Lymecryme.org and lymeinfo.net to get a better idea of what you're up against here.
Best of luck, and feel free to contact me if you have any questions,
Tracy9
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7521
posted
Adamm, There is an LLMD in New York who routinely starts patients off at 100 mg Doxy BID for the first month to "see how they do." After that, the LLMD will increase the dose, as needed.
There are two new people on LymeChat who are undergoing this treatment. Several of us on LymeChat have been concerned for them that this is not the standard approach.
What do you think about it? They both say they got the doctor referral here on Lymenet....though it isn't an LLMD any of us had ever heard of. It is Dr. R in Long Island, not the famous Dr. R in NYC.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Tracy said..
"There is an LLMD in New York who routinely starts patients off at 100 mg Doxy BID for the first month to "see how they do." After that, the LLMD will increase the dose, as needed."
My GUESS is that he does that with folks who have been sick a long while. In MY opinion... I think that is a good idea.
BUT.. in someone just bitten.. hit it fast and hit it hard is MY theory.
As for the spider bite.
My theory has always been that spiders can have Lyme.
They suck the blood and guts from different insects... so why not?
The University of PA I believe did a study a good while ago saying people had spider bites and since spiders couldn't carry Lyme, the people were being treated improperly for Lyme.
I say HOOEY to that.
They missed the Lyme diagnosis and are not-so-bright. I like that explanation much better.
I'd LOVE to get spiders around here tested.. and the horse flies for Bartonella... just haven't gotten a round to it... and $$ is an issue.
posted
Thanks for all the replies. I will be seeing my primary again on Monday, so I'll ask about the higher dose of doxy. He did tell me that he would contact an infectious disease specialist this week, since my situation is a little complicated. I also have mono and cellulitis (from the spider bite) plus my liver enzymes are way up (maybe from the mono), so I'm also on a steroid burst. And I have allergies to two other antibiotics, so I know the doc is reluctant to wipe out another family of drugs in case something else goes wrong.
As for not knowing whether it was a spider or a tick- I would hope most adults would know the difference LOL!!! They really don't look alike (although if they're in the same family, there must be some similarity?). Anyway, I just wish I had saved the spider body (even though I smashed it asap when it bit me)so it could be "analyzed" (do they do this?). If I had known how sick I'd become, I would have definitely saved it! And as for being bitten by a tick- is there anyone in the contiguous states who can swear they were never bitten? No! They're so small that anything is possible, so maybe my Lyme's is from a tick. But the timing after the spider bite (and yes, it was a spider and not a huge tick), combined with my systemic reaction to the spider venom, and miscellaneous postings re spiders and Lyme (nothing definitive), led me to post my original question.
However, it seems that the treatment for Lyme Disease is not really dependent on HOW you were given the disease, so I won't worry about tick vs spider. Since I do have Lyme's, I'll concentrate on getting rid of it!
Thanks again!
Posts: 4 | From NJ | Registered: Oct 2008
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mojo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9309
posted
I'm not sure exactly what a "steroid burst" is but if it involves taking oral steroids I would say not to do it. Steroids typically cause huge issues for people with Lyme Disease and generally we are advised to not take oral steroids.
It would be interesting to see if that spider was infected. There is speculation that Lyme can be caused by other insects but I don't think it's ever been proven.
Posts: 1761 | From USA | Registered: May 2006
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