posted
I've been reading a lot about the immune disfunction hypothesis of CFS. A lot of evidence demonstrates taht our bodies are "stuck" in a Th2 dominant mode. Possibly, in those cases upregulating Th1 (as can be achieved with medications) might be beneficial.
Has anyone heard or read which portion is dominant in LD? Th1 or Th2?
I think a lot of this fits with our overall patten of poor health...and also makes sense in the respect that I (and seemingly a number of other people out there) after getting "sick" with lyme disease, no longer get "sick" with things like the common cold. I can't even remember the last time I had a cold. It's been many years.
Does anyone understand this better? I'm considering some medications to boost my Th1 response, but wouldn't want to do that if LD is already causing my Th1 to go crazy.
Posts: 99 | From Bucks County, PA | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
The book Healing Lyme by Stephen Buhner has a small section on this.
Can't remember the details but one is dominant during acute Lyme and the other is dominant in chronic Lyme.
Posts: 129 | From Virginia | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
IMO, the evidence points the Th1 being dominant in LD. Th1 chases organisms that get inside our cells, working to eradicate them. This helps explain why so many lymies report getting remarkably few colds. I've not had one for 10 years. Colds are caused by virii that get into cells then replicate, but with Th1 chronically stuck in overactive high alert mode, virii can't gain a foothold.
Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
That's very interesting and agrees with my experience. Despite a persistently borderline low WBC (4.0 - 4.2), it has been many, many years since I came down with a regular cold or flu.
Posts: 195 | From Manchester, CT | Registered: Jun 2008
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
A more sinister way of looking at it. Is our immune systems are so overworked it shuts down as soon as we become sicker the viruses are given free rein on our bodies.
I believe we still get viruses, I just don't think we fight them very hard such as a cold. So they just contribute to symtoms in another way. Especially if you are hypothyrodic.
Maybe both views are correct depending on the person, an underactive thyroid puts a new wrinkle on it. Thyroid not producing enough TH hormones you can't mount as much of an attack. In my case, and like others, I hadn't had many colds or strep like I did when I thought I was healthy. In getting better the first thing that occurred was getting a cold. It didn't last long but I got one and I occasionally get post nasal drip on a cold day. That didn't happen at all last year.
By the way I'm no longer taking thyroid meds (60mg armour) and feel more energy. In a matter fact I don't believe I had a thyroid issue despite my TSH scores just an overworked and confused immune system.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lymie_in_md: A more sinister way of looking at it. Is our immune systems are so overworked it shuts down as soon as we become sicker the viruses are given free rein on our bodies.
I suspect if our immune systems were indeed down or deficient, the infections would get out of control and we'd get symptoms of such, similar to what many AIDS patients experience.
Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I have had more cold since being DX'd with Lyme than I have ever had in my life. I am on my 3rd cold in 2 months... SO how do I fit into all of this????
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Shandy -- your immune system hasn't given up and is still putting up a fight, hopefully, just a guess. Mine, for a good while wasn't strong enough to fight back struggling with mercury, lyme.... Maybe that is what made my experience different. It would be great if we could get rid of the guess work! And the doctors guess as well, they hopefully are better at it.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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gemofnj
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Member # 15551
posted
I'm a little confused.
I havent had a cold since well before I contracted Lyme which is fall of 2007. However, my natural killer cells were down because of lyme. ( Showed up in testing.)
So if our natural killer cells are down, along with other cells that should be at normal levels and arent because of lyme, how do we become immune or resistant to the common cold?
If our immune is down we get sick. If it is up we stay healthy.
How do we explain lyme=weak immune system? But yet dont get colds/flu?
Posts: 1127 | From atlantic city, nj | Registered: May 2008
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
One of the defense mechanisms our bodys have is to generate mucous. Suppose you loose that ability, then you don't sneeze, you don't cough, you don't get sick to remove these varments. So what happens to the viruses, they grow in numbers and compete for nutrients our cells want. And we just get sicker in different ways, joint and muscle pains. It becomes part of the pathogenic malaise our bodies can no longer fight effectively.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
What most people experience as "feeling sick"--temperature, mucous, sneezing, lethargy, can't think, etc., are actually signs that the body is attacking invaders. Inflammation is the body's defense against bacteria, etc.
When the immune system is overworked by chronic disease, the more acute, observable reactions don't come into play.
However, there can be an underlying level of chronic inflammation, which would be experienced in many, many ways (looked at a list of Lyme symptoms recently???)
When we experience a "herx," it is actually the effect of the immune system waking up and fighting back and killing off some of the pathogens.
My sources for info on this are Buhner's book, Healing Lyme, and some of the articles relating to the Marshall Protocol.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
to clarify what I mean by "not catching a cold", heck, I feel flu-like all the time, mostly in the form of muscle and joint pain, low energy, somewhat headachey, the severity of which cycles with pulsed abx herxing
but, for many years I've not had the traditional viral cold/flu symptoms of runny nose, congestion, cough, fever, chills that I used to get from time to time
Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
What I have experienced was the COMMON cold but on Steroids... I have had it 3x in just 2 months (I am getting over my 3rd one right now). I mean, Runny nose, congestion, cough, sneeze, chills, low grade fever, sore throat, and blowing my nose eevry 2 seconds doesn't keep up with all the mucus, etc. Lasting for more than 10 days.
This is no herx... This is a cold gone out of control. It starts with my 18 month old getting a little bit of a runny nose, and I end up with a full blown cold for 3 weeks.
I have never had colds like I have now since being dx'd with lyme. Beofre this I would have maybe a small cold a year... THIS is out of control and I left miserable with all my horrible lyme symptoms + a nasty cold.
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
Shandy - can you try anything like VitC and echinacea/goldenseal? I am often able to stop a cold when it's starting, with these - don't know about efficacy if one's already happening.
Re TH1/TH2, when I looked at the list for health conditions if one is dominant, I thought I fit on both sides of the equation, so was no further enlightened about it. Can both be weak in Lymies?
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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