posted
I personally think thats the best idea. Treat with abx hard, then lessen the abx amounts overtime and use supplements, then eventually end abx and be on just supplements.
Ive been using supplements along with abx and I feel like Im improving, but, as is the case with lyme, its a very slow progression. Sometimes the improvement is very subtle.
You may want to google or search on this site for alternatives and supplements, such as olive leaf extract, oregano oil, garlic, that are natural abx, antivirals, anti fungals, etc..
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
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Yes, the toll on the liver can be huge from lyme toxins and some meds. Is she using liver support such as milk thistle, NAC, etc. ? That can help.
I am a huge fan of natural medicine. Despite early failure due to lack of education both on the part of my ND and myself, I am very pleased with some of what I have found in the books below. Regular acupuncture and full body massage are also very helpful. You might be able to learn some massage techniques from a LMT (licensed massage therapist).
My opinion is based on exerience of 5 years with an other-wise excellent ND who sorely underestimated lyme and discounted co-infections. "Getting my body strong enough" failed. "Boosting" methods just triggered more seizures.
Since then, I've read the works below and find both Zhang and Buhner to really get it. While they differ in specifics, both approaches have the necessary elements.
While few get well without attention to nutrition and supporting the liver and adrenals with specific supplements, anyone considering complementary approaches should be sure to have first read the abx protocol (and Singleton's book) for a better grasp of the task at hand, timing and the reasons for certain combinations.
Excellent diagnostics by a seasoned LLMD would be of great benefit. From there, various avenues can be explored.
Basic, supportive herbs to "get the body stronger" are NEVER enough to get over lyme or coinfections. ``Boosting'' anything can be dangerous. However, support measures are vital.
With that, very specific attention must be paid to the nature, life-span and forms of each tick-borne disease (TBD).
Each TBD is treated differently and it is no minor undertaking. It is best to seek guidance with skilled professionals who are truly lyme and TBD literate. They will know, specifically, how to proceed.
There are some LL ND (naturopathic physicians). Some are also members of ILADS and some will incorporate antibiotics when necessary.
Be sure anyone you work with has a complete understanding of the disease processes involved. Authors below are excellent.
A synergistic formula of 6 rainforest botanicals which are traditionally used in South America for syphilis (a type of spirochete bacteria) and other bacterial conditions.* This product was featured in an article by the Health Sciences Institute (see page 4).
Third-Party Published Research* - links to research articles
This is not a book about lyme (save for the mention in the chapter on sarsaparilla). However, this is an excellent book to understand how the body works, the language of herbs and there are many chapters on herbs that most people have never heard about.
I cannot say enough good about this book as a fabulous resource. Quite generously, much of the book is online. You can also purchase a copy at the home site or through Amazon (where you can read customer reviews).
[ 30. October 2008, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
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I have found this formula to be extremely helpful, especially in avoiding systemic candida infections. In my experience, this is not enough alone [as a total protocol] but, still, a very good formula. I combine it with other formulas, rotating as needed under the consult of a LL ND.
Myrolea-B (White Tiger) is a simple formulation of highly concentrated extracts from four Chinese herbs and one Western herb.
The Chinese herbs include forsythia and lonicera, two of the key ingredients of Ilex 15 (and the main antiviral ingredients of Yin Qiao Jie Du Pian), thus boosting the dosage of these essential ingredients.
Myrolea-B also contains the antiviral agents scute (huangqin) and terminalia (hezi). The Western herb in this formulation is olive leaf, which is one of the primary anti-viral herbs derived from the European tradition.
============================
Basis of research:
Excerpt: " . . . used to treat leptospirosis, a disorder caused by a spirochete bacteria, related to the organism that causes Lyme disease. . . ."
SHUANGHUANGLIAN: Potent Anti-Infection Combination of Lonicera, Forsythia, and Scute
-by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D., Director, Institute for Traditional Medicine - 2003
Shuanghuanglian (SHL for short) is a modern formula that was devised in the 1960s to treat a variety of infections. It is comprised of the alcohol-water extracts of three herbs: lonicera (shuanghua, often called jinyinhua), scute (huangqin), and forsythia (lianqiao). . . .
. . . One of the early preparations of the SHL was a tablet made of equal proportions of the extracts of each herb. This was used to treat leptospirosis, a disorder caused by a spirochete bacteria, related to the organism that causes Lyme disease.
Leptospirosis causes initial symptoms of fever and chills, headache, and muscle ache (especially in the shoulders); these are consistent with "flu-like" symptoms described for the onset of many acute infections.
In a 1971 report, the formula was described as being made in 500 mg tablets derived from 3.7 grams of the crude herbs, and being administered in doses of 10-15 tablets (thus, equivalent to the extract of 37-55 grams of herbs) every 6 hours (1), a very high dosage.
. . . Recently, Shuanghuanglian has been applied successfully to treatment of Coxsackie B3,
. . . The general indications for SHL . . . are "relieving the exterior syndrome, clearing away heat and toxic material," and its indications are "treatment of fever, cough, and sore throat that arise from wind-heat syndrome."
It is said to have "a good action in treating upper respiratory tract infection, tonsillitis, laryngopharyngitis, pneumonia, acute enteritis, viral dysentery, etc., when caused by virus or bacterial infection."
- full article at link above.
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[ 31. October 2008, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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You can find medical abstracts from around the world at PubMed. Regarding some of the measures suggested in the books above, here's a start to research verification. However, the authors of books suggested offer their citations along with their works.
You can cross search with lyme, borrelia, Bb, spirochete or gram-negative+bacteria. You may not find many abstracts specifically here about lyme, however. Some of that is not open access for public use.
For babesia herbs, you can cross search with malaria or protozoa.
BIOCHEMISTRY OF LYME DISEASE: BORRELIA BURGDORFERI SPIROCHETE / CYST
by Prof. Robert W. Bradford and Henry W. Allen
EXCERPT:
A discovery of great importance relating to a toxin produced by the causative agent of Lyme disease, Borrelia burgdorferi, has been linked to a similar toxin produced by the organism Clostridium botulinum.
- Full article and great photos at link above.
-----------------------------------
NOTE OF CAUTION: While this is an excellent article regarding the information about the spirochete/cyst, there is one serious caution with one of the treatments suggested: Bismuth.
Bismuth, in various forms or methods of use, can (and has been) fatal. So, cross that off your list. If you download the article, please copy and paste this note to top your page.
Reading - and learning - about the nature of this infection is invaluable. The authors offer much in that regard, I just wish they would have cautioned about bismuth.
sammy
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13952
posted
I worked with and LL ND (Naturopath) for 2 years before starting with my LLMD.
She diagnosed and treated me based on clinical symptoms. It seemed to help me stay stable and I actually got better for a couple months but then things got much worse. My neuro problems were progressing and I was alot sicker in general.
The LL ND actually recommended that I find a LLMD for antibiotic treatment. I refused at first because I didn't want to deal with any more doctors. She basically begged me to give it a try so I did all the testing through my new LLMD, came back pos as the ND suspected, and started antibiotics.
Now I treat with both antibiotics and natural support. I still work with the ND because I do need to support my body as I treat with stronger drugs.
Before the naturopath I also tried homeopathy, functional medicine, Traditional Chinese medicine, acupuncture, and chiropractors. The others helped relieve symptoms temporarily (like for a couple hours) but did not bring about any improvement.
So, my advice is don't drop the antibiotics if your daughter still has symptoms of infection. Find a knowlegable ND to work with your LLMD for natural support (detox, imbalances, etc).
Maybe even consult with another LLMD, another set of eyes might help lead to a more appropriate treatment protocol.
Good luck Nicoles Mom. I hope you will find what works best for your daughter. She's lucky to have your support and love Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
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sammy
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Sorry, just wanted to add one more thing.
Don't forget that herbs and supplements can act like drugs in the body. They can interact with each other and cause side effects too.
That's why it is good to find ND's and MD's with experience to help guide you.
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
I have another totally different opinion. I saw my little one declining with abx day by day for about 5 weeks (she was 2 when she first caught lyme).
I only stopped it because my lyme doctor urged me to, he said, it's not helping her. We dropped it, and did an EXTENSIVE herbal, homeopathic, eletromagnetic treatment with her. When I say extensive, take my word for it.
She got better, but it took still 5 months. We had to fight candida harder than borrelia which truly made me think about my choice to use abx after her new bite.
My doctor does ART (energetic tests), and so does my naturopath. Lyme and coinfections were treated only naturally, but it was not simple. She got symptomless aafter 5 months until she got bitten again the year after.
This second time, I learned my lesson, and din't use abx at all (that I remember). I went directly through herbs, homeopathy and the KMT and she got better again.
The third time she got bitten, this May, she took no abx either. OK, she didn't get borrelia this time, but got tick born encephalitis, viral.
Well, I wonder what next summer will bring us, but no, I start to be versed on alternative treatments and do prefer them to drugs.
This is only our experience. And I don't believe anymore on any efficient lyme treatment without energetic tests. Not when the disease becomes chronic.
I mean, it's too much trial and error in my opinion. I think what made us both better are these energetic tests, and the tests usually don't choose abx. I say usually, because sometimes, I needed abx in minimal amounts.
Selma
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Keebler
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posted
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Selma,
what is KMT ?
---
Oh, and I need to clarify when I said that one the Myrolea-B is not enough alone - I meant as a total protocol - for me. I would combine it with other formulas, rotating when necessary under consult of a LL ND.
But, mostly, now I am working up to the Buhner protocol. Andrographis is an amazing thing! I've not had one (full blown) seizure since I started this a couple months ago.
Rotation - and combination -are key elements in Traditional Chinese Medicine to prevent resistance and to allow herbs to work together.
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[ 31. October 2008, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Keebler, it's the microcurrent machine from dr.K. used for many infections. Many. It works well for parasites, I feel, and viruses, but less well for candida and fungi. It was a big help for me and my daughter.
Andro was my magic herb too. I took only bits of it, but it did wonders to me too, at least, in my first infection. Without andro, I would be still sick for sure.
And you are right, rotation, this is a must. That's when energetic tests enter. I never felt the same protocol worked for more than 2 weeks. Two weeks was my maximum in a fixed protocol (before I learned to test energetically).
When I learned to test myself, my herbs changed every single day, sometimes just the amount, sometimes just one herb or supplement, other times the whole thing changed from a day to another.
Look at the other threads on people doing energetic tests now. They do feel the same. One thing test in a day, next day is no, and so on.
It's amazing and it confirms what I felt before: once you get the right treatment, you improve fast and the disease changes, symptoms change, critters die one by one slowly but surely. You literally peel the onion, until there's nothing else to treat (I mean, no symptom left).
You live in constant herxes (I did) but able to clean the body after testing for cleansers, and the step is always up (even though the appearance of new symptoms look like falling down again).
Again, just my own opinion, based on my own experiences.
Another wonderful magic Chinese soup was phellodendron and gardenia in decoction, together with gervao (rain-tree) in infusion. It worked for acute infection for many co-infections during my second re-infection. I owe a lot to these 3 plants too, besides Buhner's herbs (my favorites there are andro, stephania, astragalus, cats claw and some eleuthero when the main fight is done).
Wish you good luck in your treatment!
Selma
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can you make a suggestion of rotations of herbs you think are best ?
I am trying to take a break from 3 yrs ABX . I am going to alternate GSE , andrographis, some silver ( possibly ), oil of oregano , and artemisia annua .
Which other herbs are strong enough to really make a difference ? Have you tried any of them ? Have you tried any of the Seven forest formulas ? Other members here have given them good reviews and even used them to recover from Morgellon's disease .
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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You know, now that the rainy season has finally come, I thought I'd stay off the computer. I have to hide with my computer in the closet if the sun is shining.
But, something drew me here today. I found a Great article about GSE and cyst and these two notes. Oh, what a great place, eh?
Selma,
Thanks so much for your note. I'll read over it a few more times to get it. Good detail. Merci.
-----
Annxyz ,
The book below may be of help. It is nothing about lyme but will give you an idea of how herbal balance is considered. The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook (Tillotson) -
By introducing concepts from different traditions in the same chapter, I am not giving you license to mix them indiscriminately. This can prove unworkable . . . .
. . .
Understanding Herbs by their Physical Properties
Ayurvedic doctors have classified all their herbs based on their physical properties. Some herbs properties that are easy to identify and understand include heavy (to digest) and light (to digest), dry and greasy, and the previously discussed hot and cold.
Physical properties can sometimes be very important when prescribing herbs.
Some examples:
* Herbs that are heavy in property (heavy to digest) should not be used if digestion is sluggish. Bananas are heavy to digest.
* Herbs that are drying in property should not be used when the body is dry. Adding a drying herb to dry skin will make it worse. Teatree oil and acorus root (vacha) are drying.
* Herbs that are light in quality can be used in the presence of solid accumulations. Acorus root and pinellia tuber can lighten the condition by dispersing heavy accumulations of mucus.
. . . .
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[ 02. November 2008, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
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posted
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Thanks to gemofnj for finding this article -
Here's some info. about GSE from another thread today:
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
You're welcome, Keebler.
About GSE, it does get borrelia cysts from the GI tract, but it is not systemic, it won't go everywhere to catch cysts.
I have 2 sources for that info: one is Buhner (I think it was in Planet trhrive site he said that); second is dr. K.'s followers (IF my memory is good).
I also did energetic tests myself with my GSE. It does test good for the intestines but not all over (brain, for example). When you ask if GSE enters the brain after ingesting it, I could never find it.
GSE is not extensively used by ART practioners that I know.
Besides, it can be strong, and irritated my GI tract. It tests for very short periods of time for me.
Why not testing the Noni tincture for cysts? My memory is now fading for what I took for cysts, I have to go to my old notes, but I guess Noni was one of my main herbs for that (in tincture, NOT the juice).
Even if it didn't test for long for me (somehow the fight with cysts was always shorter), I find Noni tincture a must for me (I had only one or two bottles during all the years I fought lyme, but it did help me to go a step up here and then).
I suppose you don't have to buy the most expensive tinctures of Noni like I did, because I heard of other people using other brands with good results too.
Selma
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