LymeNet Flash: Does anyone know who this Dr is?

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter

Follow @LymeDiseaseNet

The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive

The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

»	LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Does anyone know who this Dr is?

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!

Author

Topic: Does anyone know who this Dr is?

JCoffee
Junior Member
Member # 17266

posted

Does anyone know the Dr this article is referring to? If you are sure who it is, can you PM me the answer?

----------------------------------------------
Lyme Disease: Simple Bacteria or Complicated Parasite?

by Bryan Rosner

I've been researching Lyme disease full time for

about 7 years now. This does not mean I know

everything-- not even close. The more I learn

each day, the more I realize I don't know. But,

what it does mean is that it is a very rare

occurrence that I talk to someone who has

information that surprises me, or information

that I am impressed with. This happened to me

today.

It all started with a book review of The Top 10

Lyme Disease Treatments (a book I wrote in 2007)

that appeared in the October, 2008 issue of

Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients.

Usually when my books get press, people call me

to chat about this or that; most of the time, a

waste of time.

This time, a doctor in Ohio called me and said I

absolutely had to talk to a doctor he knew - a

doctor named Scott, who practices in the

Southwest. I won't tell you Scott's last name,

and I'll explain why in a little while. The Ohio

doctor said Scott was a genius and had

successfully treated over 3,000 Lyme patients

with a special intravenous therapy.

Now, let me back up for a moment. I hear these

types of claims all the time, for

various "miracle treatments," and most of the

time, they either turn out to be scams, or more

often, well-intentioned protocols created by

people who just don't understand Lyme disease.

Nevertheless, because I feel it is my

responsibility to stay up to date with current

research, I usually look into any research lead

that I get.

So I called Scott, fully expecting to waste a

half-hour on the phone. As it turned out, it was

not a waste of time, but a fascinating

discussion.

As I discussed Lyme disease with Scott, I

realized that not only did he have a strong

understanding of Lyme disease, but he had

knowledge and insight which I have long known to

be true instinctually and based on years of

research, but have never actually heard spoken

out loud.

Scott's intravenous protocol is one of the few

protocols which actually make sense to me in

light of the nuts and bolts of how Lyme disease

works. Not just from one perspective, but a few

perspectives.

First, the protocol fully recognizes and

addresses what I believe most doctors either are

unaware of about Lyme disease or choose to

ignore because it is too complicated: the

dormant, or cyst, form of the bacteria. Scott's

treatment is given in three phases of IV

infusion, the first of which is a potent

nutritional mix that is designed to draw out

and "expose" the cyst form of the disease. He

says that he has spent years determining exactly

which nutrients Lyme disease bacteria need. He

believes that when these nutrients are

administered, the cyst form exposes itself.

After this initial nutritional IV, additional

substances are given to kill the bacteria in the

next two infusions. Scott would not tell me

exactly which substances they were, but he did

say they are specially formulated (depending on

patient test results) by a compounding pharmacy

in Colorado. Scott does not use regular blood

tests to determine which infections might be

plaguing his patients; instead, he uses careful,

time-consuming, and repetitive dark field

microscopic analysis, which, as many people

know, is more of an art than a science - dark

field microscopy can yield key insights into a

patient's blood if you know how to do it right,

or it can be a waste of time if you don't know

what you are looking for.

The principle of drawing out cyst-form organisms

in order to kill them is just about the only

logical approach I've ever heard of. Lyme

disease cysts are basically impenetrable and

resistant to just about everything, including

ozone, oxygen, antibiotics, exposure to

distilled water, pH changes, and the list goes

on. Antibiotics like Flagyl and Tinidazole show

some minor in vivo activity against cysts, but

far from adequate.

The other aspect of Scott's protocol which I was

fascinated with was the fact that he treats Lyme

disease not as a bacteria, but as a parasite.

Yes, he does acknowledge that Lyme disease

organisms are spirochetes. However, in his mind,

he believes spirochetes are parasites and not

bacteria.

Why is this an important distinction, you might

ask? It is in fact a critical distinction.

Bacteria are relatively simple organisms.

Parasites, on the other hand, are larger, more

complex, more "intelligent," and harder to kill.

The mere fact that Scott understands this

immediately made me pause, press the phone a

little closer, and actually start paying

attention to what he was saying. I made a

similar observation of the parasitic nature of

Lyme disease in my book, The Top 10 Lyme Disease

Treatments. Here is an excerpt:

"Known as spirochetes, Lyme disease bacteria are

unusual, not well studied, elusive and difficult

to cultivate in the laboratory, and capable of

advanced survival activities more commonly found

in larger, more intelligent organisms."

Scott believes it is so important to understand

this about Lyme disease organisms that he went

as far as to say that physicians not trained in

parasitology should not even treat Lyme disease!

Scott himself has a background in hematology,

parasitology, and other relevant medical

disciplines. Scott's father, also a physician,

and whom I believe passed away recently, helped

develop the IV protocol. Scott's father had a

background in tropical parasitology and Scott

believes that the study of exotic, advanced, and

rare parasites was the key missing ingredient in

developing an appropriate understanding of Lyme

disease. Scott even went as far as to say that

Lyme disease organisms have their own internal

immune system, as well as the ability to sense

very small changes in the environment and react

with a number of precise, responsive

behaviors...and even change those behaviors

slightly under different circumstances.

At this point the puzzle pieces in my head were

starting to click together. I, too, believe that

modern medicine oversimplifies Lyme disease as a

simple bacterium when in fact it is much more

complicated. Look at the complex aspects of Lyme

disease such as seasonal symptom shifting,

dormancy and reactivation, neurological

diversity of presentation, resistance to

antimicrobials, etc.

This is not a simple bug.

Is Scott correct, that technically, Lyme disease

is a parasite instead of a bacterium? I don't

know, and it doesn't really matter, in my

opinion. I believe Scott understands what most

physicians do not understand: that a Lyme

disease treatment approach must have great

respect for the complexity of the Lyme disease

organism, and treat the bug more like a smart

beast on the run, rather than wimpy bacteria

that just sits there waiting to be killed by

doxycycline.

Unfortunately, Scott was very secretive about

his treatments and protocols and did not want

his identity publicly shared. In fact, his real

name is not even Scott; I changed it to protect

his identity. Like most Lyme doctors, he is

aware of the current harassment of Lyme

practitioners and, since Scott knew that I am a

Lyme disease author with the habit of making

things very public, he was a bit shy in talking

to me. That is why this article will not contain

any specific information about Scott or his

protocol.

Scott claims to have treated thousands of Lyme

disease patients with great success. There is no

way for me to objectively verify this claim, but

that is not why I wrote this article. Whether or

not Scott's statistics are completely honest or

possibly inflated, I believe his insights are

valid and worthy of further pondering and

research. In fact, the complex and parasite-like

attributes of Lyme disease organisms have been

the primary focus of the books I have written on

Lyme disease. Treating Lyme disease as a

complicated, intelligent, and survival-driven

organism leads to a higher degree of treatment

success, in my opinion. On the other hand,

treating the organism as a simple bacterium

almost always yields poor results. What was neat

about my conversation with Scott was that he

verbalized a number of thoughts which I had

never heard articulated before.

I wish I could share more specifics, but I do

not even know them - Scott wouldn't tell me. So,

the "take away" from this article is that you

will hopefully have more respect for Lyme

disease organisms and, when you are planning

your treatment program, you will realize that

you are up against an organism that behaves much

more like an intelligent monster than a stupid

bacterium.

[ 14. November 2008, 05:47 AM: Message edited by: JCoffee ]

Posts: 9 | From Dallas, Tx | Registered: Sep 2008 | IP: Logged |

djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449

posted

i do not know the dr rosner is referring to but i sure would like to know.

anyone can provide some insight it would be appreciated.

cheers

derek

ps- where was this article obtained from? is rosener writing literature and more books currently?

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

[email protected]

Posts: 2269 | From Lansdowne, Pa | Registered: Mar 2007 | IP: Logged |

JCoffee
Junior Member
Member # 17266

posted

Bryan Rosner is not a Dr, he's an author.

http://lymebook.com/blog/research-news/parasite/

Posts: 9 | From Dallas, Tx | Registered: Sep 2008 | IP: Logged |

polar blast
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 9142

posted

possible troll? something does not sound right my friend above...your very vague..studied for seven years yet your post number is 4..fess up..

Posts: 593 | From long island ny | Registered: Apr 2006 | IP: Logged |

hcconn22
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 5263

posted

I think he is referring to Dr Seuss.

His other book I believe is titled "The Cat in The Hat". Common get real. There are no mystery Lyme disease cures, nor secret doctors that treat Lyme.

--------------------
Positive 10 bands WB IGG & IGM
+ Babesia + Bartonolla and NOW RMSF 3/5/09 all at Quest

And still positive ELISA and WB two years after IV treatment
http://www.lymefriends.org/profile/blake

Posts: 607 | From Tick Town, Connecticut | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged |

desertcanyon
Member
Member # 17998

posted

Hi polar,

JCoffee inserted the text of an article; didn't claim to be the author of that article.

If JCoffee was the author, wouldn't need to ask *us* for the doctor's name. The author already spoke to the doctor!

Who's on first? [Smile]

Personally, I don't know anything about the credibility of either the author OR the doctor, but am also interested to hear what you find out.

--------------------
Grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console; to be understood, as to understand; to be loved, as to love

Posts: 61 | From Atlanta, GA | Registered: Nov 2008 | IP: Logged |

glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556

posted

Desert said "WHO'S ON FIRST" [lol]

Love your humor. Anyway, getting back to the article Bryan Rosner wrote about anonymous Dr.,

I find it very annoying that some Dr X has the audacity to dangle some tx out there that he says works, but we have no access to it.

I know, Rosner wrote the artcle, but why?

Yes I know it could be B S, but there's the off chance that it's not.

If he is that covert, how is anyone finding him? Maybe thru the underground railroad.

What did ring true for me is this: I really believe this ia a parasite(s)and that these are monster parasites that harbor bacteria.

I have studied the written material and photos on www.lymephotos.com

Folks, these are the monsters I and many others have seen pouring out of them. I don't think our Lyme disease is any different than yours.

They are strong and intelligent and put up a ferocious fight. They are also laying 200,000 eggs a day and more.

Burgdorfer found FILARIAL WORMS in the keetes!

I know I have posted this info several times before. [bonk]

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008 | IP: Logged |

Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

posted

-

You can contact the author himself and ask. That way you'll know for certain.

-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007 | IP: Logged |

JCoffee
Junior Member
Member # 17266

posted

quote:
Originally posted by glm1111:

Yes I know it could be B S, but there's the off chance that it's not.

If he is that covert, how is anyone finding him? Maybe thru the underground railroad.

I'm currently trying to get a diagnosis for

Lyme. I've had a Western Blot by Quest through

my GP, all 0's. I'm not sure my GP even knows

how to spell Lyme, much less literate on it. So

I started sending messages to find a LLMD. I

found a LLMD, through the "underground

railroad". I came to places like this message

board and others and asked. I didn't open up

the yellow pages to LLMD and find a long list of

Doc's. And now I seek to find out about the

above referenced Dr, here, the "underground

railroad".

BTW, I'm wiating for my IGENEX results. Should

be anyday now, IGENEX recieved my blood on 29

OCT.

My CD-57NK is 15.

Its asked above, "how is anybody finding him?".

Probably the same way most are finding other

LLMD's. Through word of mouth, the "underground

railroad". Or so it seems to me that's how

everyone is finding their LLMD.

Posts: 9 | From Dallas, Tx | Registered: Sep 2008 | IP: Logged |

shazdancer
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1436

posted

Frankly, I'd have trouble with this doctor right off. "Parasite" is not a scientific classification of the organism, the term just describes how the organism depends on another organism to survive.

Borrelia are parasites, they need a host to survive. Ticks, fleas, mosquitos, and leeches are parasites, as is mistletoe! They are clearly not in the same class of organisms.

-- Sharon

Posts: 1558 | From the Berkshires | Registered: Jul 2001 | IP: Logged |

hopeandhealth
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 17605

posted

Well, it would be nice to know who the doctor is. It does suck that it feels like someone dangles a tx in front of your face.

However, it doesn't seem like many of us are ever getting any better and we shouldn't bash a new way of looking at it or a different form of treatment.

We aren't getting much better. I mean, some of you (us) have been on this board hitting milestone marks of 1 year, 2 years, and still posting that they are frustrated because they aren't making progress and some are feeling sicker!

--------------------
~*~Lyme POW~*~

I will escape.

Posts: 100 | From n/a | Registered: Oct 2008 | IP: Logged |

lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130

posted

BIG SECRET!?

BAH!

THE llmd in training I have seems to think

ALINIA,

is the only thing needed to combat the mighty lyme bacterium/virus/fungus!

Well.....personally I think my guy has been approached,

cuz I was too damn stupid to let other folks in on my guy!

He balks at anything that even sounds like anti-biotics,

claiming that the dispersal of penicillin or ampicillin or amoxicillin is the reason

or cause of the outbreak of that other disease in the hospitals....what is it again....

Dmso or something...

ya know out there...

that REAL supposed booger, I think has been made up,

by the big pharma folks and the media....

claiming it's a "Super Bug"...

because "FEAR" works!

When the only "SUPER BUG" I have first hand knowledge of is, lyme disease!

Let's try getting rid of that EPIDEMIC CAUSEING bug,

before we try tackleing something, I personally know of no one being infected with.....

but I sure as hell, know a lot of folks with lyme!

I have lyme...chronic lyme....and THAT IS my superbug and focus!

zman

--------------------
I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman

Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004 | IP: Logged |

lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230

posted

bryan usually gives contact info-it's wierd that he didn't this time.

maybe he would if you contact him privately

do others agree flagyl and tini are not that good at cyst busting?

--------------------
Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged |

Shosty
Unregistered

posted

Bryan didn't post it, he is being quoted, right?

I agree with shaz that the terms "parasite" and "bacteria" are two different categories, and that, of course, all bacteria could be termed parasite if they depend on hosts to survive.

The idea of drawing out cysts and then killing them lies behind pulsing, doesn't it? In my own treatment, I came up with that idea, because every time I tried to stop abx, I got horribly sick, and then going back on brought very quick relief. I figured that the bacteria were being suppressed, but not killed, by the abx I was on.

At this point, I read a book caled "Biography of a Germ" about Bb. Maybe we need to make peace with the parasite, ultimately. Maybe humans will adapt in a few generations. The Bb is trying to survive, so I don't like to think of it as a "monster." I try to think about it sympathetically, as a homeless wanderer, but I wish it would find permanent housing somewhere else!

IP: Logged |

JCoffee
Junior Member
Member # 17266

posted

How do I contact him? Does Bryan post on this

board? I'm new to this Lyme thang. I don't

even have my Igenex test results yet. I had a

Quest test done and it showed all 0's. I have a

CD-57 result of 15, and about 20 of the symptoms

from the list on Burrascano's paper. I've had

no coinfection test done yet.

Posts: 9 | From Dallas, Tx | Registered: Sep 2008 | IP: Logged |

Angelica
Unregistered

posted

Google Bryan Rosner he has his own website and I believe lives in Tahoe. He has a good article on medicinal mushrooms worth the read.

IP: Logged |

Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496

posted

I belong to a yahoo rife group by Bryan and this was posted about the doc he was talking about, Bryan wrote some updates. Here is the website, so you can read it.

http://lymebook.com/blog/research-news/parasite/

take care,
Ocean

--------------------
http://www.healingfromlymedisease.blogspot.com/

Sick since 1996...Diagnosed 10/2008

IgM:23-25 IND, 31+++, 39 IND, 41 +++
IgG: 31 IND, 41++, 58+

Posts: 1624 | From Ohio | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP: Logged |

Tracy9
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7521

posted

Thanks so much, Ocean; here's the takeaway message from your link that Bryan Rosner wrote:

"The FDA warns of use of this protocol here.Oh, and I guess I'll also note that there isn't as much new under the sun as I thought - I reported above that I had never heard of this treatment until recently, but that was only under it's guise as a ``mystery treatment'' - now that I know it is just bismuth, I can say that I did hear about the treatment years ago and wrote it off even then due to the use of heavy metals.

11/18/2008 - WARNING: More cautions coming in about this doctor and the legitamacy of his treatment. Here is an excerpt from an email I received: ``I would stay away from [this doctor] as he is a threat to patients who are deadly sick with this disease and is using their last hard earned money for his benefit.''

Tags: bismacine, bismuth, bradford, dioxychlor, John Toth, lyme disease

--------------------
NO PM; CONTACT: [email protected]

13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005 | IP: Logged |

rachellemarie
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 16419

posted

I read this article too and I remember when reading it, there were a few things in it that made me think it MIGHT be talking about Dr. K. PM me if you want more info.

Posts: 215 | From Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Jul 2008 | IP: Logged |

desertcanyon
Member
Member # 17998

posted

Here's are links directly to the warnings:

FDA Warning on Bismacine (bismuth)

Health Canada Warning on Bismacine (Chromacine), Dioxychlor (DC-3), and Sulfoxime

So bismuth is not safe intravenously, and yet, interestingly, bismuth compounds are used in cosmetics, ulcer medication, antidiarrheals (Pepto-Bismol) and medical procedures.

--------------------
Grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console; to be understood, as to understand; to be loved, as to love

Posts: 61 | From Atlanta, GA | Registered: Nov 2008 | IP: Logged |

cleo
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 6646

posted

This makes sense to me. It follows the same lines that the doctors at Vanderbilt are treating chlamydia pneumonia with. Cpn is a parisite and they are luring it out by treating with calcium pyruvate to bring it out of cyst. Kind of like feeding candy to a kid. It is taken 2 hours before biaxin. This makes total sense to me. We must be doing something wrong otherwise it would not take so long for us get well with the path that we are on now.

Posts: 433 | From new york | Registered: Dec 2004 | IP: Logged |

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA
http://www.lymenet.org/