randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
i started taking biaxin again last week. the ringing in my ears has gotten much, much worse. in fact it's so bad that even during the day it overrides the normal noise....
i'm so fed up with antibiotics that i want to just hang it up and go herbal.
my ears just hurt....oh yes, i'm taking difulcan 75 every day for two weeks..
since i've been off everything for a couple of months i don't think this is a herx but i'm not sure...
do abx cause the tinnitus to be worse? i've read lots of places where they cause it.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
It did get worse for me, but at the time, I needed the abx. Now that I've been off for years now, (approx 4-5), tinnitus, unfortunately, is still with me, but not as bad.
I expect it will always be part of my new normal, and sometimes, I don't even mind it. Then, again, sometimes, it's very bothersome.
I'm just glad to be off abx. I would rather be rid of the Lyme arthritis that is hanging on...
lifeline
Posts: 983 | From FL | Registered: Dec 2002
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Biaxin actually can be toxic on ears... Pls mention this to your LLMD that ringing has gotten much worse. Could be a sign of a toxicity but just a very humble guess.
If you look up biaxin's prescribing info, there have been 'isolated reports of hearing loss' but, could always be the lyme...
Hope it is better soon, BR
Posts: 32 | From east coaster | Registered: Aug 2008
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
I had this with zithromax.
Same class of meds as biaxin right?
It was the zith.
I had to stop it asap.
Hope you feel better soon.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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david1097
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3662
posted
some abx are toxic to the ears -so yes. Try stopping the abx and see what happens.
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
YES. And it can last for a short time and go away or it can hang around for years or even forever. (even from a short course of treatment with abx.)
The severity can vary, too. It can be mildly annoying, or just unbearable at times.
Different antibiotics are known to have "ototoxic" effects. Discuss it with your LLMD.
Good Luck
Carly
Posts: 797 | From New York | Registered: Feb 2008
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Tinnitus could be an inner ear infection. Children often get these types of infections possibly due to not having a fully developed flora. I found the following article talking about biofilm forming in the inner ear. You might get your doctor to read the following article.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Yes, some can. Some don't.
Mino and Zith cause the most problems with tinnitus and balance but many find Biaxin zooms the tinnitus up as well.
You might first check to see what else you are taking that may be contributing, though. If nothing pops up, switching med may be necessary. For instance, aspirin can cause tinnitus. Beyond that, see the thread below.
NAC and B-6 may help, according to links in the thread below. If these don't help, you may need to switch, as well as ask your doctor what the plans are to address biofilm, as Bob points out.
Tinnitus can become permanent and can become nearly upbearable. It can reverse, depending upon the cause, but there is no guarantee. Tinnitus can also increase cortisol levels (not good) due to the stress it creates. In turn, the cortisol can worsen tinnitus.
Lyme, and other infections can be a cause so treatment is vital, but finding a treatment that does not increase tinnitus is the hope.
Tinnitus can also result from fungal infections and from a sluggish liver and from exposure to diesel exhaust, chemicals or perfumes, as well.
Diet sodas or other products with artificial sweeteners - and MSG - also can send tinnitus to the moon.
There are lists of ototoxic drugs and over the counter products that can cause tinnitus. It's all here:
Oh, and abx can lower the threshold at which noise can damage ears. Normally that is 85 decibels (dB) for 90 seconds. A hairdryer is about 100 dB.
Be sure to wear earplugs or construction style muffs when using a hairdryer, vacuum, etc. With muffs - you can put the head bar under your chin for running a blender or juicer - or even for sleeping near a snorer.
In-the-ear bugs with an iPod can be damaging even at lower levels for those on abx tx.
Tinnitus from damage to auditory nerves usually never resolves - or can create problems years later.
Protecting our ears is to protect our quality of life - our very futures. Miserable ears can make life miserable as (even beyond being able to hear clearly) ear damage messes with balance, vision, even with thinking and endurance.
posted
In the early days of abx, the technique used to determine when the dose was too high was the patient's report of ringing ears.
Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
If ABX removes or reduces your normal biological flora it seems there is a correlation with the inner ear. We notice the same issue intestinally, it seems to make sense it is an issue of a compromised flora. Maybe there are doctors studying the idea of replenishing flora to the inner ear. Just a thought to consider.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Well considering I'm a musician and record with headphones almost every day AND I have a constant ringing in my ears AND I take Zith AND Amantadine! I'm in big trouble!
I'll have to ponder this situation for a while and figure out just what I can do. I don't really take a big dose og Zith only 500 mg a day and didn't even re-start the Minocycline yet oh man! What a bummer.
Music is like my place to go and forget about everything else so I'll have to see what I can do about the headphones but I've been recording through headphones all my life now so maybe it's just catching up with me now.
Ok, I'm gonna go be sad for a while.
Steve
Posts: 406 | From Rhode Island | Registered: May 2007
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Lymeorsomething
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16359
posted
I've never had a problem with Biaxin, but Plaquenil definitely gave me ear symptoms...
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Steve (corrected),
Don't give up your love of music and recording. I think there may some some safer techniques that other musicians may have discovered. Here are just few that I have found.
Headphones themselves are not as hard on ear nerves as the in-the-ear buds that are so popular today. Ear buds are never advised for tinnitus patients, but headphones - for short periods of time, at low volume, these may be okay - but if on abx, the risk is greater for damage to ears so keep it as low as you can.
If you wear headphones when you are recording - or for extreme discriminatory listening at the softer edge of moderate that may be okay. A lot has to do with the level of "hits" or sharp pulses when volume shifts or a drum pops in.
If you have percussion with hitting drums if you can lay down that track after you do all your other work, that will help. If you need it to keep time, there may be a way you can listen to percussion softer in your headset than what will be laid down on the track for the final mix.
If you ears ring worse afterward, that is a sign that it is too much. Another way you can listen with small button headphones is to put them right in front of the ear. Bone conduction will pick up the sound but it's a little further removed from the nerve.
You can also lie down and put larger headphone ear cups on the back of your head if you don't want to disturb others but want to listen. That is easier on your ears. With the right headset, the neck will be happy, too, but that may take some testing.
There was not too long ago a "headphone" that was worn draped around the neck and rested on each collarbone. I would love to find that but have had no luck.
If you ever get blast in your ears, taking a homeopathic of Arnica can help protect the ear nerves and prevent swelling.
Magnesium can be very protective for the ears, however, with lyme, we have to remember that the outer coating of the nerve can be worn away (myelin sheath). That changes a lot.
Anything to strengthen that is good. And, sometimes, if you are playing or recording - frequent quiet periods can be helpful, just as if you had a sprained wrist, you would take breaks. Ears need that, too.
Good luck. Do not give up on music, however. There must be ways to be sure the ears get what they need along the way. Ideas hear barely touch upon this need. Others have written much more if you check professional literature of both musicians and those in audiology.
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[ 22. November 2008, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Thanks for those tips on the headphones! It's Steve but that's ok, you can call me anything and I'll reply.
I'll never give up music and can play a ton of things that don't need headphoned but the recording part for me has always been with phones so that's the tough one.
I do take breaks play at a very low volume and only for tops two hours and also a long time before I take my anti-biotic.
It's just a scary situation and I got a bit scared because the ringing has been louder and longer for the past few months although I have also been on a giant herx! I also notice some hearing loss in my right ear but...that's also the side of my body where everything is worse, right hand less strength, right leg more pain and foot and I could go on but I won't
Anyhow I really appreciate this and all the posts you make, they are all full of info and great tips so thank you for that!
Steve
Posts: 406 | From Rhode Island | Registered: May 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Steve, it is. I wonder if there is a LLMD who has more info. on ears.
Glad to hear that you already use wisdom in your headphone use. I suggest asking if there is a switch you might make in your meds. Some with Zith can have tinnitus permanently from that alone. PubMed has abstracts about that. It can be toxic to ears.
I know this is alarming. Again, knowledge is power. We all have to morph into our own action figures to find the solution. I hope you can find what you need around all this.
Hey, I am doing very well on Buhner's protocol. The andrographis has decreased tinnitus when nothing else would.
Andrographis is mentioned in moderate detail in Singleton's book and discussed at great length, with many citations offered, in Buhner's book.
I can't take abx and when I have, mino, zith, biaxin have been the hardest on my ears. I started andrographis a few months ago and it has really helped lessen tinnitus.
I cannot say, yet, that it lessens hyperacusis or pain from sudden sounds. However, such sudden startles are not triggering seizures as normally they do, since starting andrographis. It seems to have a protective quality for my ears and brain.
I have tried everything else and andrographis is the only thing that has helped the tinnitus. Finally, I see some progress. I am more tired and this upsets the stomach a bit, but I see signs of hope.
I do know that some LLMDs incorporate some of Buhner's suggestions and that Buhner states there are times with abx are necessary. I do not know if taking andrographis with abx would help the ears or not. My thinking is that if something is ototoxic in nature, it's best to find a substitute if equal in positive effects.
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This book, by an ILADS member LLMD, holds great information about treatments options and support measures:
Thanks for all the info and I'll check those links out.
I just left a message with my LLMD to let him know about it and see what he thinks. I start Mino soon and figured I should at least check with him and see what he thinks, he's cool and I don't think he would steer me in the wrong direction.
Really I'm hoping he says it's ok because I'm finally starting to see progress after almost six years now! Man! I'm hopin and prayin.
Steve
Posts: 406 | From Rhode Island | Registered: May 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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B-6 may help with mino. See link below.
While some people do okay, even great, many have some serious vestibular reactions. Minocycline is on some researchers' lists as ototoxic (especially in the work of Neil Bauman).
Again, for reasons that are not clear, not everyone seems to have this problem.
Best of luck in whatever path you select. In addition to B-6, NAC has been shown to help reduce ototoxicty with some drugs.
Antivertiginous action of vitamin B 6 on experimental minocycline-induced vertigo in man
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The Road Back Foundation at www.roadback.org may be a place to see what helps others. I talked to someone there a while back and they said that the pelleted, time-released MINOCIN was easier for some.
Yeah well my update is I stopped taking the Zith till I hear from my LLMD. Having a hearing problem is bad enough but being a musician it's really freaking scary!!
On the good side the ringing is about half of what it was before so that's something anyhow.
Steve
Posts: 406 | From Rhode Island | Registered: May 2007
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