posted
I had Lyme's disease about 4 years ago and was treated through IV antibiotics.
Three months ago I started taking Celexa, which started all my symptoms. I only took 20 pills. Three weeks after taking celexa, I was diagnosed with Lyme's Disease. I can't take the medicine as the pain in unbearable. Can you get lyme's disease without being bit again, when your body your immune system is low? I can't tell if I had adverse reactions from the Celexa or if I had lyme's disease and the Celexa just brought out all the symptoms. Before celexa I was fine, besides being slightly down.
No matter what I do I have pain, but the antibiotics make it worse. What should I do????
Posts: 13 | From Rhode Island | Registered: Nov 2008
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lymednva
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9098
posted
How long were you treated for Lyme 4 years ago? Did you have one abx, or several? Lyme usually does not come alone, but with co-infections.
Probably your Lyme was treated, but not completely. That is why the symptoms have returned. You should be on abx for a few months after all symptoms have resolved.
It's also possible that you were bitten again and just didn't notice it. That is not uncommon.
Either way, you need to be certain you are being treated by a LLMD (Lyme Literate MD).
To find one go to the Seeking a Doctor Forum and give some details about your illness and past treatment. People there can help you find a LLMD who will treat you properly.
-------------------- Lymednva Posts: 2407 | From over the river and through the woods | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
I started on Doxycycline, for about 6 weeks, before the IV which I stayed on for aboout 3 more weeks.
This time I am much worse. I am seeing a nuerologist right now, as my head is going in every which direction. Everyone thinks I am crazy. I really dont know if I just had an allergic reaction to the SSRI, which caused the Lyme's disease to come back.
There is always a possibility I was bitten, but I didn't develop the rash as I did the first time.
Posts: 13 | From Rhode Island | Registered: Nov 2008
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I will tell you that I was on an SSRI for about 12 years and I got off of it about 16 months ago because I thought my heart palps were being caused by this. Now that I have been diagnosed with Lyme I think that it might have been the Lyme and not the SSRI.
While in withdrawal from the SSRI my body went through a lot and I had a TON of symptoms of Lyme disease which others on the forum that I go on also experienced while on the SSRI as well as in withdrawal from the drug.
I cannot say for sure but from what others have told me, when the body is under stress your Lyme can "flare" up again and cause symptoms.
I am sorry if I confused you further, I might have confused myself too..
I hope you find some answers and feel better soon!!
Jenny
-------------------- Never, Never, Never give up! Posts: 395 | From Connecticut | Registered: Nov 2008
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
The best one can do after contracting Lyme is lower the germ load to the point where the immune system can get keep the infection in check. Antidepressants are currently believed to be potent immunosuppressants--don't have time to find studies at the moment, but you should definitely do a google search (they're also associated with a higher incidence of brain lesions in groups who, like us Lymies, are predisposed to getting them).
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
Lexapro (celexas other half) Though me into a massive what I was coin a severe "babsia like herx"
This was followed by dramtic improvment in my babsia symtoms.
Lexapro raised my body temp from about 96 to 98.2 in about 2 hours after first dose...lexapro caused me to be very sick for about 2 weeks. I though, remembered what a babs herx felt like, and so, I felt somehow lexapro was killing something...and sure enough after about 2 weeks all the illness signs dropped off and I felt better then I had before the lex.
Then I had live blood microscopy done, by a trained expert, and she (we) saw MASSIVE, AGRESIVE and oversized NK (the cells that wonder and eat any pathogen) cells and she stated to me..."I never saw such oversized and aggressive NK cells in my life" endquote! We watched a NK cell open its mouth so wide...we freaked..it darn near looked as if the NK cell was going to break in half with how wide it stretched open...then we saw it slam shut on say 50 lyme hatchlings! all in one bite!
SSRIs enhance the immune system. Read the studies..you will find them on the net.
But lexapro seems to do something to the NK wondering cells...make them big, aggressive and stronger.
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Shosty
Unregistered
posted
SSRI's cause a lot of side effects. A person in my family was supposed to start at 10mg, the lowest dose pill, but cut it down to a .06 dose to start! Even taking 2.5 made her really sick.
The body and brain need to get used to the dose.
Even more relevant to your situation is the very intense withdrawal process from SSRI.'s Many docs say to cut it in half for a week, then stop. This is very, very wrong for many people.
It sounds to me like you are having withdrawal. Even if you tapered off a little, it probably wasn't enough. Are you fluish? Are you having electrical sensations, especially in your brain? Are you achy? Are you nauseous? Are you seeing weird things, like seeing things smaller than they are or bigger than they are? Is your mood affected? My family member experience all of these, even with a slow tapering off of an SSRI.
Some people take months to get off SSRI's. They not only taper dose, but at some point, start taking doses an hour more apart each day. Also, taking Prozac or 5 HTP in tiny amounts can help with the withdrawal.
Twenty pills is most definitely enough to set you up for withdrawal.
Don't blame everything on Lyme, or co-infections, or herxing...it sounds to me like the explanation is simple.
One other thing, in spite of all this: these drugs can have major good effects on people's lives, too. I am not slamming them. But starting and stopping them requires a lot more care and customizing to the individual, than most docs advise.
Try going back on 1/2 of what you were taking of Celexa, then take a long time to get off, cutting it by small amounts every few days, then moving the doses apart further in time. Exercise, sleep well, eat well. See if that helps.
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posted
From personal experience, there's some connection between lyme and levels of neurotransmitters like serotonin and GABA. Maybe it's as simple as what is described as "neuro-lyme" or maybe it goes deeper and is connected via the immune system.
Therefore I'm not surprised by the OPs report about lyme/immune reactions from a serotonin-influencing med like celexa. I think this possible serotonin-lyme connection deserves more study as it might guide us to improved treatments.
Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
I forgot to mention we tested the effects of other various SSRI drugs and after say 2-3 weeks me and my natpath inspected my blood to see the effects.
heres what we saw:
Lexapro-makes super sized NK wondering cells...and makes them super aggressive. (in live blood you see them as a large bubbling like stew with bugs stuck in there...the bubbling is like acid cooking them invaders) The natpath also said in my blood there appeared to be more of these blob like NK eating cells then normally.
paxil-no response found...seemed like a normal person.
prozac-no response found...the seemed like a normal person.
I HAD GOTTEN THE IDEA THAT LEXAPRO DID SOMETHING DUE TO MASSIVE SIDE EFFECTS SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHEN I TOOK IT FOR DEPRESSION BEFORE I REALIZED I HAD SERIOUS PATHOGEN INFECTIONS. THE EFFECTS WHERE SO INCREDABLY BAD I ACTUALLY WROTE DOWN THE SIDE EFFECTS ON MY HOUSE CABINET AND THEN JUST STOPPED THE LEXAPRO SINCE I DIDNT REALIZE IT WAS KILLING OR ENHANCING THE BODY'S ABILITY TO KILL THE PATHOGENS.
Then I ran across several studies who discovered that SSRIs DO in fact affect the immune systems T-Cell communication link. Since SSRIs cause the saratonin mol to bounce in and out of the recptors there reused instead of spent. What this amounts to is more extensive communication with the body's T-cells. The study didnt conclued anything...but it did for sure conclude that SSRIs have an effect on the immune system. the studies team worried more about SSRIs leading to possible autoimmune disorders rather then exploring possible enhancements of the immune response. My position is that SSRIs (certainly lexapro from my scope findings) enhance the immune system. I proport that SSRIs reuse of the saratonin mol could create a direct feedback of communication with T-cells since we know that sara. talks to T-cells and sara once into the recptor bay is spent, but in SSRIs the sara bounces back out of the recp bay and so I believe therefore the sara can actually receieve feedback from a prior conversation with T-cells thereby having a "conference with feedback" rather just a quick hi, and bye, as in normal persons not using SSRIs.
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
Theres a simple solution to SSRI withdrawl.
Switch to prozac, then taper off.
Prozac has a super long half life and so prozac has almost no SSRI withdrawl effect. Most SSRIs half life is only 24 hrs, thats the problem.
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Shosty
Unregistered
posted
But because of that long half life, it takes a few weeks to start to take effect, unlike the faster ones like Celexa, which can start having an effect in a week or less.
So, the withdrawal will get bad before the Prozac helps. I suppose the Prozac could be started two weeks before stopping the Celexa, but that could risk serotonin syndrome.
I think I mentioned using a little Prozac or 5HTP, but tapering off the Celexa should still be extremely gentle and done in a very methodical way.
The last 5mg or so is always the hardest to get off, so the Prozac would be helpful by then.
Concerning side effects while getting on SSRI's, people w/Lyme may be more sensitive, and can start on, like, 1/16 of the lowest dose and then work up.
My family member got really sick at 1/4 the lowest dose, but after starting even lower and ramping up, she is now on the 1/4 dose very comfortably, and it is helping her a lot.
I am curious about SSRI's and autoimmunity, since my family member has a high ANA. But she is not experiencing problems on what is now her 3rd month on Lexapro. Should we watch for increased autoimmunity?
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posted
I stopped taking the celexa over two months ago. How am I still having withdrawals/adverse reactions after only 20 pills. By body just can't handle any medicine, I tried taking Cymbalta - only a few times... nothing works. I can't get out of bed, work, or anything for that matter.. I cant even watch TV. I just can't concentrate. My main problem is my head pain and gnawing stomach pain.
Posts: 13 | From Rhode Island | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
If you have neurological Lyme and brain inflammation then the serotonin can be converted by an alternative pathway to quinolinic acid -- a neurotoxin. There is a pubmed article that found elevated levels of quinolinic acid in Lyme patients.
The same thing can happen from taking B6 and l-tryptophan which the body uses naturally to make serotonin.
Buhner in the Healing Lyme book recommends taking resveratrol to block this alternative pathway. Hubby can take both l-trytophan or 5-HTP and B6 and sleep like a baby as long as he also takes resveratrol.
He had some bloodwork done several years ago that did find elevated quinolinic acid.
This is not medical advice, just my opinion.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Amanda
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14107
posted
I had taken several different kinds of SSRIs, off and on, before I had Lyme, and I never had many problems with them (except for Lexapro, which made me so sleepy I could hardly keep my eyes open).
After Lyme, I had a HORRIBLE reaction to Paxil, when previously I had not had problems with it. I tried Cymbalta next, same thing, all at once I couldn't tolerate it. I even started getting really bad headaches and nausea when I tried 5HTP.
I take remeron now, which is not a SSRI, but an older class of antidepressents, and I don't have problems.
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
SSRIs can have terrible side effects, for sure!! Every one now, I believe, has a "black box warning" due to the severity of reactions.
If you have already quit, and are trying to deal with the mess yourself, I'd recommend B Complex, B 1 and Calcium/Magnesium (this last in a liquid or a powder that you dissolve in water, such as A to B Calm). B Complex can be in pills or Brewer's Yeast (which tastes awful until you get used to it; some people are allergic to it, so be alert)
Stomach problems are classic with psychoactive drugs. I personally use ginger when my tummy bothers me, but a search here at Lymenet will probably turn up several different solutions.
For the guys, SSRIs are now implicated in male infertility, as they cause the DNA in sperm cells to fracture.
SSRIs also cause brain atrophy over time--about 1% brain shrinkage per year of use.
If one is thinking about using them, I would urge thorough research, especially on MedWatch under reported adverse effects. It is clear from recent Congressional investigations led by Sen. Grassley, that much of the "reasearch" on psychiatric drugs has been bought and paid for by BigPharma, and the results published have sometimes been twisted to support marketing instead of reporting what really happened.
It is very bothersome to me to know that many, many people are being "diagnosed" with mental problems when they actually have Lyme disease.
I truly hope you find something that works for you!!
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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Shosty
Unregistered
posted
People can have withdrawal after only taking a few pills, I have read. But if you have been totally off for 2 months, it is unlikely that you are experiencing withdrawal, I would think.
The post about serotonin being converted to a neurotoxin is interesting. My daughter took 5HTP, and for a month it helped a huge amount, but then it seemed to turn on her, causing all kinds of strange psych. problems that she had never had before the drug, like extreme panic attacks.
I read that this happens with 20% of all people taking 5HTP, and that taking L-tyrosine w/the 5HTP can avoid it.
With Lexapro, however, after 3 months, things are still improved. No backlash.
A lot of the body's serotonin is made in the gut. Side effects of either supplements like 5HTP or L-tryptophan, or SSRI's, often include nausea, loss of appetite or diahhrea.
For our daughter, she also seemed to develop food allergies during the same period she was on Zoloft for a few years, a few years back. I have no idea if there was a connection, but it was at the same time. Gving up dairy and gluten healed her stomach and her headache too.
While suffering from Lyme, it seems as if people can miss out less on life if some of these psych. symptoms are treated. Our daughter would not be in college w/out her teeny piece of Lexapro.
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