daystar1952
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3255
posted
The other thread concerning biowarfare was getting a bit long so I wanted to begin a new thread.
There was a debate on the other thread as to whether or not Lyme was a eugenics tool. I think that to some people eugenics only means killing off of the population. Well...this is a definition I found. Eugenics....." a social philosophy which advocates the improvement of human heredity traits through various forms of intervention." One of these interventions would be selective breeding. Another means can be through genetic engineering.
While I do think that Lyme MAY be being used as a disabling agent, I also think there is a possibility that is could be being used for genetic manipulation. I have been reading that many of these viruses and bacteria can incorporate themselves into our genes and therefore change our genetic structure. This change of genetics could then be passed to our children.
I was reading a book and part of what I read prompted me to write to the author who is a prominent microbiologist.Below is my message and the scientist's answer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > I was reading a bit of your book today and came across > an answer to a question that I have had. You were talking about slow > growing bacteria that can cause genetic mutations or deletions in the > human body. I am wondering if this can be an explanation for "science' > saying that some of these new diseases we seem to be experiencing have > genetic markers that seem to run in families.In other words we are hearing > all the time now that this and that new disease is genetically inherited. > Well how could it be if it is a new condition? So, are you saying that > certain bacteia can change our genetic makeup and then if our new genetics > are passed on to the younger generation, we now call it a genetic > condition? > > Also...I know there are scientists who believe that humans can be > improved upon and many feel that they have been appointed to this higher > calling. Do you know if bacteria and viruses are being intentionally used > to genetically manipulate the human race? All of a sudden it sounds very > feasible. Would love to hear your thoughts on this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scientist's response:
Actually, i believe that they are being used. Why would they go to such lengths to deny their existence and refuse appropriate treatment? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If people want to learn more about all of this they can look up eugenics, transhumanism (Yale sponsored a transhumanism conference)...along with genetic engineering, etc.
On the other thread one poster commented thatthere could be no way that enough people in our country and or across the world, could be involved with this evil intent....that our system is not set up to foster this type of activity.
Well...I have noticed that...especially in the scientific and medical community that people's jobs are very limited in scope...very compartamentalized. In other words, the average person is only working on a very specific task and therefore they do not see the whole picture or what they may be unintentionally contributing to.
For example, I know a molecular biologist who works with stem cell research. This person's job is to make the stem cells sick...to create a "missle" that would be placed in a genetic package. This genetic package is then sent off to the people with the viruses. This scientist can only hope that this genetic package will be used for good....but the scientist has no control or idea what is actually done with the genetic package that was made.
This is one way.....by compartamentalization...that certain agendas can be accomplished. I feel that there is a POSSIBILITY (and it's ok to talk about possibilities)that Lyme and possibly other coinfections may somehow be being used to alter our genetics. The manadatory vaccine program may also play a role in this.
Of course this is speculation. But we need to speculate. People have told me in the past....we must remain credible...you can't talk about such conspiracies. Well...In my opinion, we have gone backwards due to this stance ...which may have been the intention of some.
I think there is more than one thing going on. Scientists are also making money on patents and drug companies are making money on hundreds of symptomatic treatments and our nation is becoming disabled.
But there is hope when we look more closely into the reasons WHY things are happening. If we just accept the general mainstream thought then we will never be able to address the cause.
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daystar1952
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3255
posted
Here is a link concerning the transhumanist conference at Yale
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Hey there...
Day said... "Of course this is speculation. But we need to speculate. People have told me in the past....we must remain credible...you can't talk about such conspiracies. Well...In my opinion, we have gone backwards due to this stance ...which may have been the intention of some."
Since I often say we must remain credible... its my turn to respond.
Now... Who on this earth, dear, would want us to go backward? Of course, other than the IDSA idiots and paid off politicians? I don't "get" that comment.
Also... if "backward" is the direction you think we have been going... and I know we have our ups and downs and progress is slower than ANY of us would like... but...
PLEASE tell us exactly what we should be doing with this speculation stuff that will move us forward? I really don't know.
And when you and others who feel we are moving backward get time.. and I don't mean this hatefully, NOT AT ALL... but why not just do whatever you feel is needing to be done with the speculation stuff...
Rather than just talking about it and fretting over those who don't jump on the speculation band wagon and run with you? Personally, I am already on too many band wagons as it is.. so I am being stretched to the max and can't jump much more to help IF there was something constructive in the works.
And I am sorry. I see this stuff tossed out here a lot lately (a movement of sorts?).. and still really have NO clue what anyone here is expected to do about it.. other than read it?
And the truth is, I don't understand how it will help us with the life saving basics... like get doctors trained, get us antibiotics and access to alternative care, get laws passed and our insurance coverage paying... or get us anything useful.
So until further notice....
My opinion stands- We need to remain credible.
As it is, we can hardly break down the brick walls at the local levels (doctors offices) to get us help... and we KEEP trying....
Or at the legislative levels (they want HARD cold facts- and will NOT change or make policy on speculation .. especially when going against mainstream medicine bad boys -IDSA and the likes) ... Therefore...
By promoting government conspiracy theories that we can't prove ... and even if we did.. they actually have nothing to do with getting my next door neighbor's child treatment. So I don't see the use in all this kind of talk.
Does that make sense?
Example- Look at the JFK controversy- a nice plot for a movie or two, no doubt- but nothing has become of the many theories over the years ... at least not in a positive way, except at the box office...
And that has been ongoing since 1964.... almost 50 years now and MILLIONS of dollars and countless people have devoted their lives to try to prove this speculation and are STILL working on it with NO end in sight.
And what do we do in response to all the JFK hoop la??
We smile and go on our merry way.
So promoting conspiracy theories here.. in a world where we DO have LOTS of medical and scientific facts and papers backing us up that aren't being taken seriously....
Well, pursuing this route most likely won't advance our cause either.
I think focusing on the warfare theories, etc is maybe fun for play time for some folks .. or for writing a science fiction book if that is your thing... but to get serious help.. IF someone is trying to intermingle the causes (?)...
We need to stick with the medical and scientific facts we CAN prove.
And although it is outrageous to have to do.. we must work within the GIANT awful system in front of us and go through accepted channels before we can move us forward.
And that requires a lot and LOT of wait time that NO ONE who is sick is willing to quietly agree to do. It sucks! I agree 100 percent....
But, life ain't always fair... and as the kids say...
We've got to suck it up, buttercup.
We need to all be on board to move this Lyme train to the next stop.
Anyone not wanting to be on board... and those kicking the ongoing actions...
Please tell us what are you doing in the meantime with your free time, money, etc to advance the cause for everyone? And...
Is it working?
Please share. If progress is being made.... this may be something we can all do.
But I see no alternative plans in action.. so what is desired here?
Thought- How long has Jerry Lewis, bless his heart, been fighting for help for his medical cause, MD? It has been as long as I can remember.
How many millions have we all invested and given to him... and how much publicity has he had...and how many people are there across the globe working toward getting his medical nightmare looked at seriously....
And still we have no answers and no cures for Muscular Dystrophy?
So sad. But... they all keep going because...
Sorry to say... Rome wasn't built in a day.
And as much as I HATE what is happening.. and HATE waiting for the top dudes in government and health care fields to get on the RIGHT road with this...
It is going to take time, money and a lot more pushing in ONE direction to get us help.
And to accomplish our UNITED goals (make us all feel better)...
It would have been REAL nice over the past 20 years to have a work force that was fully funded, organized, healthy and very experienced..
One that isn't divided, isn't staffed only part time by those who are chronically sick, isn't depending on those who are disabled and struggling to help themselves and so many others... and isn't all volunteers who have other obligations and problems of their own.
Oh.. and a master plan book with instructions on how to fight this crazy Lyme fight SUCCESSFULLY.... signed sealed and delivered... that is guaranteed to work if the instructions are followed... would have been very helpful to have in this struggle too.
Day said.. " I think there is more than one thing going on. Scientists are also making money on patents and drug companies are making money on hundreds of symptomatic treatments and our nation is becoming disabled."
You are right. And actions like what the Attorney General did... and the ILADS docs working together, the wonderful movie and the LDA and other groups joining forces and marching up to the ones in charge saying FIX THIS... has been a good start.
To make the bad boys behave and do the right thing is nearly impossible. But throwing a conspiracy theory out in the wind.. and focusing on it rather than needed education, LEGAL actions and getting more HONEST research science accomplished probably won't help the big picture... if any picture.
Soooooooooo... until further notice....
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
BTW- We both know this shouldn't be in the Medical Section... so we might want to expect it to be moved or deleted.
daystar1952
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3255
posted
That's ok Tincup....everyone isn't expected to do the same thing. That is part of the point. I don't expect you to do what I am doing if it doesn't interest you. You play an important role in helping patients, etc. That is definitely needed while other try to work on WHY this is all happening. We can keep trying to raise money and help those who are getting sick but if we don't get to the root cause then we will not be able to keep up.
If we don't try to figure out where all this is stemming from (not just the insurance companies)then we just keep pouring our scarce resources down the drain and pretty soon we will be so overwhelmed with sick people that the pandemic will overtake us. So...you do what you think is important and I will do what I think is important.
The government has become a conglomeration of corporations. Coporations are things...inanimate things....they are not individual people who care about, love us, or have our best interests at heart. I think that going to government agencies and trying to get help from them or to think we have to educate them...is a joke. They know more than we do...they are not stupid.
I am not a person who is good at organizing conferences or pushing bills through congress so I do what I feel most comfortable doing and that is buying copies of lyme newspapers I feel are on the right track and passing them out to the public. I also write my own articles to try to get people thinking. I spend money copying them and handing them out. I tell people that what I am writing is to get people thinking. If enough people start thinking out of the box then hopefully we will be able to get to the root of things.
I don't feel that we should be asking help from the very entities that appear to be thwarting our progress.
Well...I don't want to make this too long or no one is going to want to read it
You said " To make the bad boys behave and do the right thing is nearly impossible. But throwing a conspiracy theory out in the wind.. and focusing on it rather than needed education, LEGAL actions and getting more HONEST research science accomplished probably won't help the big picture... if any picture."
I think we have to understand WHY the "bad boys" as you call them,act the way they do...what their mindsets are......why they believe the way they do. We all know they are geneically engineering germs, vectors, cloning and the list goes on and on. These are not conspiracy theories they are conspiracy facts and we have to learn more about them so we can know how to deal with them.
As far as this not being an appropriate topic for medical questions....I thought it was accepted seeing how Elena had one or two threads about biowarfare.
If I were you I wouldn't question people's logical questions and label them as conspiracy theories This is a tactic used by controlled opposition to stifle healthy public discussion and debate....and I'm sure you don't want to be labeled as that.
So, my main point in responding to you is that everyone has their place and their role. There is nothing wrong with working together.....as long as those who are working together have the same goal
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
As they say on Frazier... "I'm listening."
Actually I am sort of understanding for the first time some of the things you are saying. Very interesting.. glad we can discuss it.
I have re-read your comments several times. I am tossing out comments in no order... just what popped in my mind.
1. Yes, our roads are different but we both want the same thing... to feel better and stop this nightmare. Agreed.
2. I am glad you pointed out that we both.. and all of us actually... need to do what we can and what interests us. Good point. I won't be latching on to the conspiracy theories because I need to stay credible with what I do.... and you won't do what I do.. whatever that is... yet you are interested in that area of Lyme. And that is ok.
3. The PROBLEM is... I think I am seeing it now.... I believe doing what you are doing and doing what I am doing shouldn't be a competition. We shouldn't be kicking one another or downing each others efforts because they are not our own. Unfortunately, we are both guilty of doing that... as are others.
4. We shouldn't interfere with each others efforts for no good reason. We should each respect the other ones efforts.
As for the comment on moving the post... I am not trying to fuss or anything. I can't. I am the most guilty of putting things in the wrong section I believe. I do it a lot. Just letting you know I have nothing to do with it if it does get moved. (Many still think I am a moderator or have special connections to be able to do things here that others can't... and I don't.)
You said.. "If I were you I wouldn't question people's logical questions and label them as conspiracy theories This is a tactic used by controlled opposition to stifle healthy public discussion and debate....and I'm sure you don't want to be labeled as that."
I respond- I am not questioning logical questions, nor am I labeling them conspiracy theories. Actually it was you that said this was speculation. I agreed.
You said.. "I think there is more than one thing going on."
I say.. maybe so.. but.. isn't that comment indicating a conspiracy theory? Or maybe I don't understand the meaning of conspiracy? Very possible.
As for a label of whatever... HA! I've gotta laugh. I've been called so many nasty things since joining LymeNet and trying to help folks it isn't funny... and I've been accused of so many things that I couldn't even imagine doing...
So being presented with another false idiotic label probably won't hurt me now.
posted
Daystar and Tincup. . .you are both great!
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I have to agree with daystar. I don't have the time or energy to post alot of info to support what daystar says or get up on "my" soapbox about this issue.
We are in the process of moving cross-country & I actually thought my internet connection would be off by today.
I really appreciate tincup's response & thoughtfulness (you too pigwit).
There is plenty of info that supports the theory of a continuation of modern day eugenics by looking back into the early days of a eugenics movement right here in America - if you look for it. Credible info, not "out there" crackpot stuff...
Do a search on Google for the word "eugenics" & you may be surprised what you find.
This stuff is real, not sci-fi. The technology is present that can do alot of damage. People are becoming ill with maladies that defy explanation, proper treatment, diagnosis, disability coverage, media coverage, acknowledgment, that are passed on congenitally, etc.
The reason why I stopped using abx are because I read about the "Russian Doll Cocktail"... it's not fantasy. This was my decision, though, & I don't expect many here to understand why I went with this decision.
I do think that this is a medical issue since we really have to understand the nature of Lyme to figure out a way to deal with it.
---
Also - BTW - there is a bit of new information that has surfaced about the JFK assassination. Look into Saint John Hunt.
They will never tell the truth of the issue of JFKs assassination in the general mass media. I would never expect that.
---
Open your mind & do the research. The info is there - it's not hidden. What they say on the media or what is taught at school is very different than what really is going on.
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glm1111
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sparkle7
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posted
Thanks glm. I'm a fan of Icke... Interesting they would call it "junk" DNA...
Humanity may split into an elite and an underclass, says Dr Curry
Humanity may split into two sub-species in 100,000 years' time as predicted by HG Wells, an expert has said.
Evolutionary theorist Oliver Curry of the London School of Economics expects a genetic upper class and a dim-witted underclass to emerge.
The human race would peak in the year 3000, he said - before a decline due to dependence on technology.
People would become choosier about their sexual partners, causing humanity to divide into sub-species, he added.
The descendants of the genetic upper class would be tall, slim, healthy, attractive, intelligent, and creative and a far cry from the "underclass" humans who would have evolved into dim-witted, ugly, squat goblin-like creatures.
Race 'ironed out'
But in the nearer future, humans will evolve in 1,000 years into giants between 6ft and 7ft tall, he predicts, while life-spans will have extended to 120 years, Dr Curry claims.
Physical appearance, driven by indicators of health, youth and fertility, will improve, he says, while men will exhibit symmetrical facial features, look athletic, and have squarer jaws, deeper voices and bigger penises.
Women, on the other hand, will develop lighter, smooth, hairless skin, large clear eyes, pert breasts, glossy hair, and even features, he adds. Racial differences will be ironed out by interbreeding, producing a uniform race of coffee-coloured people.
However, Dr Curry warns, in 10,000 years time humans may have paid a genetic price for relying on technology.
Spoiled by gadgets designed to meet their every need, they could come to resemble domesticated animals.
Receding chins
Social skills, such as communicating and interacting with others, could be lost, along with emotions such as love, sympathy, trust and respect. People would become less able to care for others, or perform in teams.
Physically, they would start to appear more juvenile. Chins would recede, as a result of having to chew less on processed food.
There could also be health problems caused by reliance on medicine, resulting in weak immune systems. Preventing deaths would also help to preserve the genetic defects that cause cancer.
Further into the future, sexual selection - being choosy about one's partner - was likely to create more and more genetic inequality, said Dr Curry.
The logical outcome would be two sub-species, "gracile" and "robust" humans similar to the Eloi and Morlocks foretold by HG Wells in his 1895 novel The Time Machine.
"While science and technology have the potential to create an ideal habitat for humanity over the next millennium, there is a possibility of a monumental genetic hangover over the subsequent millennia due to an over-reliance on technology reducing our natural capacity to resist disease, or our evolved ability to get along with each other, said Dr Curry.
[ 07. December 2008, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: sparkle7 ]
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glm1111
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posted
Very interesting article Sparkle. Being devoid of emotions sounds eerily similiar to what some ufologists refer to as the Greys.
I've also read info that there might be a connection between chronic illness and alien abductions.
Speculation of course, because that's all it can be right now. Sometimes I just think the "Wizard Of Oz" might be running the show.
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glm1111
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posted
P. S David Icke doesn't think it is JUNK DNA.
I don't remember all the facts exactly, but I think he believes that we have Alien DNA that is contolling us.
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sparkle7
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posted
I looked up "junk DNA" separately from David Icke...
There was a rumor going around about the "alien" part of junk DNA a year or 2 ago. I don't believe it was factual. I couldn't cross-reference anything about it. It all came from one source.
Who knows? If we start talking about UFOs people here will really go haywire...
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glm1111
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posted
All I can say is, I think there is much more going on then meets the eye.
We all need to stay open to all possibilities so we don't miss an opening for a cure or remission. Keeping blinders on certainly isn't the answer.
Gael
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