Lymeorsomething
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16359
posted
I've seen this before but the problem is that these issues can be atypical. For instance, I have hypothyroidism (Hashi's) but have always been very lean and in good shape. There are a lot of gray areas here so ultimately you have to run the tests...TSH, T3, T4, RT3, 24-hr adrenal urine and/or 4x saliva, etc.
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
You must be a mind reader. Or we all have some degree of this problem.
I have antithyroid antibodies, which is interpreted usually as Hashimotos. But there have been published reports of borrelia and thyroid cross reactions, so this may be an irritated immune system looking for devious borrelia, and finding thyroid instead, or also.
So, I am taking cytomel and levoxyl, but it is not entirely effective. Still have frozen hands and feet, hair loss, other hypothyroid signs. So, would armour thyroid work better, or armour thyroid plus T4?
A cortisol saliva test several years ago showed way too high level in the morning. Was interpreted as the first stage of adrenal fatigue. No test since then and I am waking up 3 or 4 am with racing heart, overheating, and dry mouth. This seems like it might be adrenaline. What is the relationship of adrenaline to cortisol, and have I now progressed to a later stage of adrenal failure?
Books on hypothyroidism have suggested that some people need low dose cortisol to cover the adrenal fatigue or else the thyroid supplementation will not work well. Need both, in other words.
Now, my question is whether it makes sense to add cortisol to a failing system that was already too high in the morning. And what is the effect of an infectious causation to all this?
Are there any holistic docs who take insurance? They seem to mostly have opted out of all insurance, as has this practitioner.
Maybe what we have, or some of us anyway, is problems with adrenal AND thyroid gland. And we sure do need endocrinologists who know something about lyme.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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Lymeorsomething
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16359
posted
lou, have you checked your reverse T3 levels (RT3)? A high result seems to be a reoccurring theme for me lately. I was known hypothyroid before lyme but the infections (or another trigger) seems to have destabilized my numbers.
It seems RT3 can be high with the high cortisol that is attendant with early adrenal exhaustion. According to some (especially Dr. Wilson of Wilson Syndrome fame), treatment with a T3 only protocol may help immensely. Such a protocol thwarts the conversion of T4 to the static RT3, which blocks T3 receptors and prevents the active T3 from doing its job.
In short, it may be good to assess your T3 to RT3 ratio next test to get a better picture of what's happening.
I may try this protocol soon. Like you said, stabilizing adrenals is also key before implementing such a protocol as T3 is a highly active hormone and can cause hyperthyroid symptoms if too much is taken.
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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sometimesdilly
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Member # 9982
posted
Missed this back in Dec, TC.
As of today it is the most relevant post ever.
tx. pickles
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Good dill. Glad it helped.
I;ll report on the iodine tattoos I've been drawing on me for the past couple of months now.
My hair isn't coming out in clumps.. my cold tolerance is getting better.
My sleep is longer in duration.. just not appropriate times still.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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blaze
Unregistered
posted
I have elevated plasma metanephrines, which means my adrenals are shot.
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posted
Hypothyroidism and sluggish adrenals were my first diagnoses.
It's all related, isn't it?
I don't know what to think though, because my mother is hypothyroid (not that she couldn't have lyme, too) and her mother fought adrenal issues all her life.
In my case, it could be hereditary stuff being agrivated by the Lyme. God, who knows?
-------------------- Be Well Posts: 103 | From Out West | Registered: Jan 2009
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richedie
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Member # 14689
posted
I know Lyme infections can impact your thyroid and adrenals. I try to stick to one cup of organic coffee in the morning so not to disrupt my adrenals much. Thyroid can be an issue because your body could have difficulty coverting T4 to T3. Some doctors are aware of Wilson's Syndrome (google it) where your body is unable to do this conversion and one sign is a low body temp. But, other things can cause a low body temp. Many of these docs prescribe T3, but my doctor is afraid the body would use this as a crutch and never regain the ability to make T3 so my doc prefer herbal and natural methods.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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Lymeorsomething
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Member # 16359
posted
Rambler, it can be related to lyme but not always. My mother and all her sisters were affected by hypothyroidism so it's a genetic feature at times. I will say though that infections like lyme will likely exacerbate the hormonal issues.
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
They have a rapid test for the cortisol now. It will determine if your body responds and if further investigation is needed.
My thoughts are with the Diagnosics VS Treatment, they are the same for lyme disease and thyroid disorders.
If you have severe symptoms, most times they refuse to treat if the hormone levels are not that off. I say treat anyway, lowly and slowly, and if you feel better that says it all.
It is very hard to get Dr.s to believe one size does not fit all.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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canefan17
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lightparfait
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Member # 22022
posted
Consider possibly that you are not absorbing your minerals and nutrients....as manylyme sufferers have this condition of mal absorption of most things ingested.
"Low levels of dietary protein, omega-3, potassium, zinc, copper, lithium, manganese, selenium, and magnesium affect your thyroid gland function.
It is possible to test positive for hypo, hyper or auto-immune thyroid disease and yet correct the abnormal tests with excellent nutrition.
Unless your thyroid disease symptoms are severe or life threatening you may want to try improving your nutrition before you commit to life long use of thyroid hormone.
If you already take thyroid medication a good nutritional program will help you be as healthy as possible and allow your medication to work better."
Posts: 1009 | From NJ | Registered: Aug 2009
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canefan17
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Member # 22149
posted
light,
Ya... I assumed I have malabsorption issues.
How does one correct this?
I supplement every single nutrient you listed above.
But I'm sure I have malabsorption (I've lost 20 lbs)
I'm gluten/wheat/dairy free. Water only
I follow the rules... but just can't seem to absorb nutrients or gain weight.
Is there some truth to the lemon water + olive oil + lecithin?
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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massman
Unregistered
posted
You could not produce enough stomach acid which can lead to malnutrition.
Try some digestive enzymes with good amounts of HCl in them.
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canefan17
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posted
Is that possibly the reason I burp sooo much after eating.
My MD did say if I wasn't bloating after meals that it's probably a non-issue...
so i could take some digestive enzymes with my meals.... then take my supplements after I'm finished?
Are there egatives to dig ezymes? Things to look out for (taking with abx's, etc?)
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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lightparfait
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22022
posted
I believe that's why most of us are chronically ill...our bodies do not take in the proper nutrients, creating unique reactions and a hodge- podge of symptoms in each of us. We have this, for most, undetected before contracting lyme...
Add lyme or another pathogen to the mix, and it becomes an even harder issue to treat, and the symptoms get worse and over the top, and grab our attention.
That is why there is no cookie cutter cure approach to this disease.
I have been focusing on the root or core of the problem with my gut over the past year, and have had major success. IT takes time to weed out the problems with malabsorption and malnutrition. Can't just add nutrients and think you are absorbing them...try to work on healing internaly so you can benefit from your food and meds.
I suggest work with someone who can help you find the correct path toward "gut" healing...most likely a ND> My llmd, whom I love, does not totally understand nutrition or how to heal the gut.
so I had to go elsewhere for that portion of my treatment, after my co's were gone. NO LLMD knows it all, but the good ones understand how important absorption is. They don't knoiw how to test for that completely with accuracy.
When I got my infections down enough to work on this, I started to heal, and my lyme went away with all the lyme related symptoms. Leaving other things...that were not totally lyme related.
I worked on detoxing heavy metals, got rid of mercury amalgams, did parasite cleansing, along with candida/mold /fungus removal internally and environmentally...which started the healing when finally off abx. Did this for many months.
My immune system started to function on its own much better, and lyme left. No more herxes...about a year ago!
My food allergies left after I began the AI therapy along with my environmental allergies which I had many.....(I started AI after the initial detoxes). NOw I am still experiencing deeper changes, and healing other odd things that were underlying problems for me...a part of my body not reacting correctly. Some of this is adrenal, thryoid, hormone issues and pathways...that are clearing little by little, naturally.
It was systematic, and organized. I had help from a ND who took me along this path of gut healing.
I am still clearing things...but now, last two months, my fibromyalgia symptoms are all gone...as I believe they were related to lack of mineral absorption. Little by little symptoms are clearing that I thought were just lyme...most were actually malnutrition for me!
I also was not producing enough enzymes to break down food...now I do! I used to take digestive enzymes...now I do not need them.
If u really need supplements and meds to survive and live a quality of life...then that is a need.
But to add things rather than take the time to clear the original problem could be counterproductive, and cause additional health issues down the road.
Posts: 1009 | From NJ | Registered: Aug 2009
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massman
Unregistered
posted
lightparfait - amen ! Gotta get good stuff in, digest it correctly + eliminate toxins correctly. And your reduced or nonexistant need for enzymes shows you are healing. As the frosted flake tiger said, "Greaaaaaat !"
cane - gas should not be produced in any way shape or form. Gas = food rotting
It seems to be another "everybody does that" so many consider it normal.
I disagree with your ND on that Where is the ND degree from ?
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-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
yes steve, everyone does have gas at sometime or another. But we aren't talking about normal tooting here.
There's a difference.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Just visited my LLMD.
Told him about my thyroid madness! lol
He wants me on compounded hormones.
He also told me that he took t3 t4 while treating Lyme and once he was done treating Lyme he stopped the meds.
But he explained how important it is to get my body temperature regulated.
I don't think I have a choice anymore : ( Synthetic time for me
/walks the plank
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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massman
Unregistered
posted
Steve - can we really trust a government source ?
And as I have said repeatedly, just because something is done a lot does not mean it is normal. Common, for sure. But common does not have to mean normal.
If most drivers run red lights, does that make running red lights normal ? ? ?
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massman
Unregistered
posted
And cane, I admit I have been BSing you about healing organs instead of taking any kind of hormone support. Absolutely positively cannot be done ! (note: satire precedes this sentence)
So...guess that doc is not open to continuing ed.
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
massman,
I get where you come from. I'm still a part of the "fix the problem don't put a band-aid on it" society...
But Lyme is a different beast of a game.
Throw common sense to the side.
If I can't get my core body temp above 96.8 how will I ever expect my body to defeat the infection or ever return to normal synergistic function?
Think of it as a band-aid that i leave on for a few months and slowly tear off after the wound is healed.
: )
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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canefan17
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Member # 22149
posted
lol
Love the sarcasm.
"Why Mass. Whatever do you mean? Does this mean that we can't be friends anymore" -Doc Holiday to Ike Clanton
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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massman
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posted
Won't be wrong if I just shutup.
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