A whole blood sample collected in an EDTA tube was received for slide examination of bacteria, Babesia, Ehrlichia and blood parasites.
Blood Smears:
Several blood smears were prepared and examined. A thick smear prepared as a wet mount was examined. In addition, several smears were stained with Gram stain, Wright stain and Gomori stain (for parasites).
PCR Amplification Tests:
Real Time PCR was utilized, using primers specific for a conserved region in the target DNA. Positive and negative controls were included in the assay and performed as expected.
Results ______________________________________
Blood Smear Results:
Wet mount (thick smear): Numerous motile extracellular bacteria were observed.
Trichrome (Gomori) stain for blood parasites: No structures resembling blood parasites were observed.
Wright Stain: Numerous extracellular coccobacilli were observed.
Gram stain: Poorly stained gram negative pleomorphic bacteria were observed.
PCR Amplification results:
Whole blood -- 16S amplification ---- Pending
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Interesting, but in practical treatment terms, what does it all mean?
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Not totally sure how to interpret the report -- I think the lab saw the same bacteria on 3 different slides. But they could be talking about 2 different bacteria.
No idea yet when actual DNA identification of the mystery bug will be available.
Hubby and I are somewhat disappointed with LLMD. Very few med changes for now -- added back Rifampin at 150 mg and decreased Zithromax to 300 mg 3 times per week. Will continue on Minocycline 3 times weekly and Bactrim daily. Hubby had stopped the Rifampin 3 or 4 weeks prior to the bloodslide, but was on other 3 meds then.
LLMD is just assuming that the bacteria is BLO and plans to treat with bart meds for now. Would not agree to restarting Levaquin or Clindamycin -- the 2 meds that have helped hubby the most.
Discussed biofilms with LLMD -- does not feel that that is relevant since the bacteria are motile. Thinks biofilms are only relevant if the bacteria form colonies. But how does he know they aren't also forming colonies?
Hubby and I are not so sure. He does have one lesion on his liver seen on several CT scans over the last 2 years. Also the pulmonary nodules and hilar adenopathy present for 5 years.
Hubby and I plan to do some experimenting with herbs over the next month until his next LLMD appointment.
After 2 months on Cortef and lower doses of antibiotics we have seen little change in symptoms. The Cortef and Benicar do relieve symptoms somewhat but cause other side effects and current antibiotics just don't seem to be doing much.
I still think the lab is seeing the same thing Fry is seeing.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
In practical terms what the report says is that hubby has a blood borne pathogen that so far has not been identified.
An identification of the bug MIGHT provide clues as to how to treat it.
Since hubby has been on 25 different antibiotics and antiparasitic meds during the 5 1/2 years he has been in treatment there is obviously something about this pathogen that is not being addressed by the current treatment protocols.
At least the babesia did not show on a bloodslide, so maybe one part of his treatment has been successful.
The lab result is proof that hubby is physically sick and does not just suffer from anxiety and depression or "post-Lyme auto-immune syndrome."
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
Mycoplasma species multiplex PCR testing on whole blood -- Results were negative.
Not sure whether to believe this test or not. As with all PCR tests there are many false negatives.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
In normal controls they don't ever find this motile bacteria?
I'm curious to see about this. All those abx and it's flourishing?
I also wonder if our blood isn't teeming with organisms, we just don't know because we never looked. It's probable that could just be what blood is/does. "Microbiota" as they say.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
IKHDAD
Unregistered
posted
Hi Bea
You are obviously very well versed and have been doing lots of research into the various infections bugs virus parasites fungus etc we are all fighting. And that is admirable in trying to help your "hubby" . That is awesome
This might not help you as much as I would hope..
But.
Regarding the mystery bug
It is now been found and named.
The name is
Proteobacteria Rheumatica
Obviously because of the family it is in and as well it is the basis for all auto immune diseases.
I was told that 100 percent of well people do not have this bug and yet 80 percent of ill people in a doctors office whom are being treated for lyme and all co infections do test positive for it.
I is bartonella like ... like some have said
I have this bug and as well .. i have to verify this but it seems to be attached to the red blood cells.
There is no cure. Testing being still done and various patients react to various medications and combinations in different ways.
Ketek is one of the top on the list for some.
Keep In touch as to what this information tells you based on what you already have been researching.
posted
hi Thanks very much for your answer.I am grateful.Could you post all the info about sequencing etc?
Gale
Posts: 268 | From europe | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Well someone on here said Ketek just got pulled off the market due to a severe black box warning so you can scratch that option. Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Wow, this is exciting to hear Fry has named his organism. Granted it doesn't automatically give us the answers to make us better but it is a step in the right direction.
Interestingly, the work Clongen is doing has found characteristics similar to the proteobacteria that Fry has found. I recently had an exchange with Clongen and they reported that they found an extracellular, gram-negative motile bug....similar to Fry's bug. Clongen reported that they found this organism in 30 'chronic lyme sufferers'.
I plan on contacting Fry's lab today to confirm this finding and to see if I can find anything else they might be able to tell me. I'm also going to connect with Clongen to relay Fry's findings to see whether they have any thoughts.
I will share any information I may find out....
Posts: 561 | From mass | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
How many healthy controls did Fry test? How many lyme sufferers? How many with unrelated illness (asthma, diabetes, etc). To say 100% sounds suspicious. In addition the name seems odd if it is baronella-like why not include bartonella in the name? What does it share genetically with bartonella? If it's attached to red blood cells shouldn't it be easily seen onblood cultures ( the kind they take in hospitals to determine infection)? This needs to be independently verified. He can name it whatever he wants but this is very preliminary and suggesting it is the basis for autoimmune disease is as well. Many organisms have been implicated in autoimmune diseases. And why is there no 'cure'? Have all abx and various combos been tested?
I hope his result is meaningful but I have to wonder.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I appreciate all the info anyone is willing to share.
Still not 100% sure if Fry and Clongen are seeing the same pathogen.
Dr K at Clongen says the bug is NOT attached to red blood cells. That seems to be the major difference in the 2 labs reports.
Hubby did talk to the Fry lab again last week -- they do not yet have a PCR test available for their mystery bug -- we don't think it makes sense for us personally to repeat the Fry bloodslide at this time. Maybe in the future depending on what Clongen finds when the DNA sequencing is complete.
By definition I think all gram-negative bacteria found in humans are considered pathogenic. Also they all? have lipopolysaccharide in their outer membrane -- an endotoxin which increases the severity of inflammation.
The big question to me is why does this pathogen not cause sepsis? Hubby has never had joint pain or swelling as a symptom. His CRP is always very low. Sed rate always normal. WBC low or low normal. ANA was slightly high once but normal several times. Hubby has had his immune subclasses tested 3 times -- all subclasses normal each time. CD 57 test twice -- low both times. C4a tested once about a year ago -- very elevated. I think that is the only inflammatory marker that has ever been elevated.
Dr F may get to name his bug, but there are scientific standards as to what he can name it.
What I do know is that hubby crashed in 2007 the worst he had done since he first got sick when we started trying to treat for Bartonella, BLO, mycoplasma. Levaquin helped tremendously and there was no herx -- maybe it is bacteriostatic and not bactericidal? Clindamycin at low dose oral -- same results as Levaquin.
In 2007 IV Cipro and IV Doxy -- caused very severe herx type reactions -- with every dose. Hubby eventually was able to tolerate Rifampin -- took 4 -6 months to work up to 600 mg -- then everything crashed again. Oral Zithromax -- similar response as Rifampin. IV Primaxin -- also similar response. By saying similar response I mean that Zith and IV Primaxin caused herx type reactions that eventually lessened.
The problem with all the meds I have mentioned -- seemed a little like the bug developed resistance over time -- initial improvement while on antibiotic and then started losing ground after a couple of months. Definite relapse or worsening of symptoms within just a few days of stopping any of these antibiotics.
Hubby symptoms remain primarily neurological and gastrotintestinal.
As for autoimmune markers -- hubby does have several white matter lesions on numerous MRI's. Also several positive tests for antibiodies to myelin, neurofilament and smooth muscle -- all tested in the blood. Have not had these retested in the last 3 or 4 years. Immunosciences and AAL labs went out of business, but recently learned that Neurosciences Lab does do this testing.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bea, it is my understanding that borrelia do not have lipopolysaccaride in their outer shell. They have lipoprotein instead, which probably functions the same way antigenically. But I am no microbiologist.
Seems like the way forward is to have these two labs talking to each other, comparing notes, and also have a third lab independently confirming the results. Might even be more than one thing being seen. One of the lyme research funding orgs should take this on.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
I aggree with you on almost everything you write in your last post- also I recognize your hubby`s symptoms, reactions to ABX etc from myself although I also have muscle and joint problems as well.
So just some comments and thoughts
1.about the question whether the Fry and Clongen bug are the same. Might be a techincal thing that the bugs attach to the Erythrocytes in the smear`s drying process.I believe they are the same.
2.TNF-alpha, a kind of infection-inflamation marker was very high for me.If you want an indication of the level of inf.-infl., it might be a usable test.
3.I would like to believe that the PCR-identification would provide information regarding treatment- havent got the time to wait-.Unfortunately I am afraid-no much more than that- that the bug will have to be cultured first before "the right" treatment can be found.All the poor results from people with the smear findings are really depressing. Because of that ,I still think that reporting treatment success here is very important.
Gale
Posts: 268 | From europe | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Lou, my understanding regarding LPS is that spirochete forms do not have it, but that is a function of the morphology.
Bea, I just posted in the Fry and Clongen thread about Sphingomonas paucimobilis - gram negative rod, human pathogen, various strains resistant to cephalosporins, quinolones, others.
The most interesting thing I think - although S. paucimobilis is a gram negative rod, it lacks the LPS which contributes (or causes outright?) the sepsis response via innate immunity.
Posts: 263 | From Capital Region, NY, USA | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
IKHDAD
Unregistered
posted
What did the information (name) etc help you with?
Does it help you all know what treatment might best work? I would like to know from all that have been diving so deep it the biological basis for these bugs..
Its just a new clue to help you talk to people and figure out more of the basis for another bug we have..? Or more??
Did it spark any thoughts as to what a treatment angle would be?
I think there will much more waiting and wondering as we all have been for years on what the best treatments are and what they find out scientifically in the lab for treatment.
Ketek has a black box warning but is being used by many doctors still and those are telling the patients of its past and the issues and why it was black boxed.
But it is a good drug and was developed because of the resistance issues in pnemonia and such.
If your monitored by your doc just like in other drugs it can be a safe treatment and I do not think people should discount it.
This new lab info leaves many questions unanswered, but it is helpful because it does rule out certain things.
Based on the lab descriptions --
the bacteria is gram negative -- very important -- those are much more pathogenic than gram positive bacteria
pleomorphic -- means the bacteria can change shapes -- not sure yet what shapes other than coccobacilli (rod shape rounded almost to the point of oval)
Note: Environmental conditions limiting the availability of certain nutrients needed for proper formation of a cell wall can alter the shape of a bacteria.
motile -- means the bacteria has a flagella or tail
extracellular -- means the bacteria is not actually inside the red blood cell -- rules out things such as babesia, rickettsia, ehrlichia, Q-fever, bartonella ...
endotoxin (found in most gram-negative bacteria) -- a very important factor in treatment -- probably means severe herx reactions if the bacteria are killed too quickly
gram stain positive -- rules out mycoplasma
As I said there are still many questions, but I think this could be very significant not just for hubby, but for many with long-term chronic symptoms.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
IKHDAD
Unregistered
posted
Thank you for listing those.. IT is you that has researched and understood so many things that can just list those things off and that helps others. THANK You very much indeed.
I hope that it if narrows it down then people will be guided to some sort of better treatment.
I am postiive that people have this new bug along with many other this of various types and the load is a big one for us all.
Eliminating as many contributors that we have control over is important and learning what supports our bodies or counteracts what these bugs put into our systems is important too
Its such a big picture and then we have to treat our symtpoms so we feel we can live the best life we can.
Its so hard and I am so glad there are people out there trying to help us.
IP: Logged |
quote: 25 different antibiotics and antiparasitic meds during the 5 1/2 years
I assume this covers all the 7 or 8 different classes of abx and antiparasitics. If after all those meds there are still things swimming around blood plasma fully motile, then I would say there is not going to be an abx that can touch these things.
I'm wondering if jamescase20 was seeing the same organism in his blood. He said the only thing that immobilized/killed them was MMS and Lauricidin (in vitro and vivo).
Posts: 655 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
Yes, I do think James was seeing the same pathogen. The wet mount (thick blood smear) is simply placing a drop of blood on a slide and looking at it under a microscope without any stain added.
There are 2 or 3 herbs that I do think may have some effect on this bug based on hubby's responses. One of those is monolaurin or lauriciden.
The week before 10/5 when hubby crashed I had added in a couple of herbs and think I was killing things too quickly. One of those things was Spiro Kete by Kroeger Herbs -- the primary ingredient is monolaurin. I stupidly started him at the suggested dose (after all this time I should have known better).
2 capsules 3 times a day was too much. He seems to be able to tolerate 1 capsule 2 times per day now. Or it may have been the combo of that and the HH -- he had taken that before and felt it was helpful, but we were off it for several weeks. Or it could have been the combo of meds and antibiotics.
Not going to make any other suggestions regarding herbs until I see how the next month goes. There are a couple of other herbs I don't want to mention at this time.
Hubby is on many things -- has and is taking andrographis, astragalus, sarsaparilla, resveratrol, and other things for liver support.
In reviewing hubby's history I have decided that the IV colloidal silver may actually have been beneficial -- did not kill this bug but may have kept it in check much the same as the Levaquin and Clindamycin.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Are they sure it's a bacteria that they are seeing. Could it be a new virus? That would explain why antibiotics don't work.
Kathy
-------------------- You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. Posts: 807 | From South Dakota | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
Yes, would like to have the link. I am curious as hubby has been on just about every supplement imaginable at one point or another over the last 8 years.
Have discussed the magnesium issue with Kelmo in the past. Hubby had actually been off magnesium -- oral and IV for the last 3 or 4 months except for a few epsom salts baths.
Definitely no major improvements in symptoms. His LLMD actually suggested he go back on oral and IV magnesium at our last appointment. Haven't decided what to do about that yet. ------------------------------
As for whether or not antibiotics will work -- don't know. Hubby has not been on any of the really new powerful ones like IV Vancomycin or IV Invanz. I am not willing to do that yet without more info. Besides the fact that I don't know where we would get the money from to pay for those as they are so expensive. And current LLMD would never be willing to prescribe them anyways.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
IKHDAD
Unregistered
posted
Not sure who Kelmo is? I am new to your thread.
She had a port in her chest.. for this treatment. Costs about 30 thousand dollars for a month or two.
From my readings they put a port in and for the first few weeks she got a ton of supplements to take and she was given things like Collidial Silver. UVB treatment, Peroxides and all the vitamin and nutritional support stuff. She mentioned msp? I was not sure what that was.? She says she did 2 to 5 hours each day for 4 days on and 3 off. Well anyway.. ANd below is a list of supplements. I am sure I do not have all the treatment info as she disclosed it periodically. The Silver is what she felt was a huge success for her at first and she felt so much better. Upon adding ABX last I heard she was herxing badly.
ABX mentioned were Lavoquin 500 mg once a day for 30 days...and now zithrmax by iv...first time they have put me on abx...I am on week 7 now. They gave me a special treatment along with the zithro so that it can penetrate the cells. I am also on zithromax, CS, perioxide. bags of C and about 60 capsules a day of supplements...oh...and some other new drug that I need to remember
I don't think that I mentioned this before. But as part of my treatment I am getting my Lymphs flushed twice a week. They run a cold jelly, and spray cold water on my upper chest and then use a sort of wand with a electric current over the area. It snaps and smells good to me. A nurse does it. I lay down.
They also do my upper ribs area and they do each side of the body first starting at the top. Then they do the lower stomach and then they do the back of the knees. It takes about 30 minutes.
Supplements include these .
1. ULTRA GUEARD PACK, A PHYSICAINS FORMULA. HAS 6 HUGE POWDERED PILLS IN IT. 60 SERVINGS PER CONT. IT HAS VIT. C+ 2,000 MG L-LYSINE 1,000 MG L-PROLINE 1,00 MG BIOFLAVORED COMPLEX 200 MG GREEN TES HERBAL EXTRACT 100 MG. GREEN TEA, LEAF 100 MG
TAKE ALL OF THESE TWICE A DAY.
2. L-TYROSINE 500 MG 3 CAPS A DAY BEFORE BREAKFAST.
3. POLICOSANOL 120 CAPS 2 CAPS 2X DAILY
4.TRANSFAER FACOTR PLUS 60CAPS TICE DAILY. SLOWLY INCREASE TO 4 CAPS, 3X DAILY
5. CYTOLOG. SRAY TWO SPRAYS IN MOUTH TWICE A DAY. PUT IN THE FRIG. TASTES LIKE CHOCOLATE.
6.ULTRA IMMUNE OPTION. I SCOOP A DAY IN WATER, DRINK 8 OZ OF WATER WITH IT.
7. CHOLEST-FREE RED YEAST RICE 2 CAPS 2X DAILY
8. BIOTECA RESEARCH. CORP. BIO-D-MULSIONS FORTE 2 DROPS IN MOUTH 2X DAILY.
9. FISH IOL WITH OIL OF ORANGE. 2 TABLESPOONS 2X DAILY.
10. ASAP HEALTH MAX 30 ONE TEASPON 3 TIMES DAILY.
11, HLC SYNBIOTIC INTENSIVE KEEP IN FREEZER. 1 TEASPOON 2X DAILY, MIX WITH WATER. TAKE WITH MEALS.
IP: Logged |
IKHDAD
Unregistered
posted
Epson Salt baths are like getting a jolt of magnesium... Your skin is such a huge absorber and epson salt is Magnesium.. ..potent. I was told to take plain baths or to add just sodium chloride and read the lables... so you are not sitting in magnesium
IP: Logged |
posted
Kelmo and her daughter are also patients of Dr F -- she has posted about the magnesium issue many times in the past.
Hubby has decreased his epsom salts baths to once every couple of weeks -- far less than the daily baths he did for a couple of months last spring when he started Levaquin.
Unfortunately, he has borderline or even low magnesium blood levels which seem to contribute to muscle spasms so he can't just totally eliminate magnesium supplementation.
It is a balancing act as most things seem to be with these tickborne infections.
Also, a new wrinkle in the picture is that hubby's RBC is now low. His LLMD does not think it is nutritional (iron, B12 or folic acid deficiency) but that some bacteria is making his RBC fragile -- Babesia seems to be gone so I guess that leaves the mystery bug as Lyme needs magnesium for growth and not iron.
I am familiar with many of the supplements you listed -- maybe not the specific brands though. There are a couple of things listed I would need to research further, but at a glance I don't really see anything magical.
Hubby has taken vitamin C (oral and IV), l-tyrosine, fish oil and about every other type of good fats, transfer factor specific for Lyme (caused a seizure-like reaction after just about every dose) etc. etc.
Hubby has done lymphatic massages in the past and did find them helpful.
Without additional research the only thing that really stands out is the lysine which I think you have also mentioned. Hubby has never tried that.
l-proline is to help with cartilage growth -- hubby took this for awhile, but don't know if it did anything. Has also taken knox gelatin which is probably cheaper.
l-theanine from green tea was very helpful for anxiety. Hubby doesn't seem to need that so much anymore.
Supplements 5, 6, 8, 10 and 11 are the ones I am not familiar with. Don't know what msp is either.
Bea Seibert
P.S. Hubby did numerous IV hydrogen peroxide treatments and 3 UVB treatments plus about 12 blood ozone treatments -- all before antibiotics. No real improvement -- think these things are more effective for viruses than bacteria. Would try the UVB again though if it were available -- but it is not at this time.
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
IKHDAD
Unregistered
posted
Nope > Nothing magical.. But thought it could help paint a picture.. of some sort.
I think they Hit it Hard there from any angle they can. And then also add abx of various types and .. not sure.. but I would hope they do ongoing testing to see how you react.
My doc said.. if you go there.. You can get to where it might take someone else 6 months to a year .. in.. one month.
And it is for those who are very down and out and needing some sort of rescue of sorts to be at all functional enough to do their own treatment..
That makes sense..
But if we knew the protocol choices in total... And as time goes on.. and if they keep talking to other doctors they may be a place that hits some sort of regimin or what works best.
You see they have the environment that can very well give answers much quicker than other docs that see people coming and going slowly over the months...
I bet they are pretty good and If I had the money I might be willing to give it a shot..
IP: Logged |
IKHDAD
Unregistered
posted
Bea.. is he taking large amounts of l lysine. I am sure you heard the connection and though process of arginine and that subject.
IP: Logged |
Hubby has never taken lysine. Will probably try this sometime in the next month before his next LLMD appointment.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
IKHDAD
Unregistered
posted
Well it is supposed to negate the Arginine levels... and I take 2 grams a day I already had been taking this.. on and off for years.. As well when there are any colds or viruses in the family we take it and its amazing how fast we recover.. ITs a good anti-viral and as well used for herpes and other viral infections.
IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Bea, you travelled to NY for Younger (bitterly disappointing).
LymeMD looks to me to have a "feel for the organism" so to speak like Burrascano always did.
Burrascano was (to my mind) too aggressive for my taste, and so is LymeMD but interestingly today he actually states that is his preference, he is impatient and those who go to him are also, he wants results and tough it out. So that is his philosophy. Me, I prefer less is more, and of course I'd rather see someone go slow and steady and on lower doses and be gentler on their body. I think that is wiser longterm for so many reasons.
But your hubby has been on a lot of stuff. Maybe LymeMd could really help him.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
IKHDAD
Unregistered
posted
Hello Have you seen this online book
Welcome to Todar's Online Textbook of Bacteriology
kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797
posted
quote: Hello> I have another think I forgot to mention that might help you. Dr F told me that at ENVITA in Scottsdale AZ they do IV and therapies through a Port in your chest.
Envita might be helpful, but I know several people who went there and said the most it did was drain their bank accounts.
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
bettyg
Unregistered
posted
bea,
thanks for updates on your hubby, etc. since i've been off most of 3 weeks! best wishes in your continued research finding the magic to turn his lyme life around!
IP: Logged |
posted
After 7 1/2 years of treatment Envita is obviously beyond our pocketbooks. Also sounds similar to treatment we did in 2003 with an ACAM doc in Indianapolis, IN which was of little benefit.
Right now we are looking for a new PCP -- after hubby's last ER visit it is obvious that the current one needs to be replaced.
As with many other chronic patients we frequently question whether or not the current LLMD is the "right one". As hubby would say, "I really haven't made that calculation yet."
A lot depends on what this mystery bug really turns out to be.
A search with the terms phage therapy should turn up a couple of threads I think.
Betty G -- Thasnks for the encouraging words. You and your hubby are in our thoughts and prayers.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Unfortunately there is evidence that lyme incorporated its "phage" into itself long ago. Phage therapy probably wouldn't work on lyme.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Here is an interesting article ,,,, that includes
At least a dozen species belong to the genus Bartonella. Three Bartonella species are currently considered important causes of human disease, but other significant human pathogens in this genus will undoubtedly be found in the future. In one study, serum specimens from 114 patients hospitalized with a febrile illness were tested with an indirect immunofluorescence assay (IFA) using rodent and human Bartonella pathogens; 5 patients had high-titer seroconversion to rodent-associated Bartonella. 1
B bacilliformis causes Oroya fever and verruga peruana. Bartonella henselae causes catscratch disease (CSD) and peliosis of the liver (often called bacillary peliosis). Bartonella quintana causes trench fever. Both B henselae and B quintana may cause bacillary angiomatosis, infections in homeless populations, and infections in patients infected with HIV.
New Bartonella species that may cause human disease include Bartonella vinsonii, Bartonella clarridgeiae, Bartonella tamiae, Bartonella rochalimae, and Bartonella elizabethae. Several of these other species are found in animals.
For additional information on emerging and reemerging infectious diseases, see Medscape's Emerging and Reemerging Infectious Diseases Resource Center.
another.. 8 page article.. on bart and very detailed.. the link starts on page 7 because it talks about therapy and meds used to treat all the various types..
I think we all know that the co infections are and can be a much bigger problem than the Lyme... and I noticed some on here get stuck on the lyme.. as the main thing.. It may easily be the last of our problems on the list of infections..
IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[group hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
![[kiss]](graemlins/kissing.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic