posted
I was using Raintree cat's claw and was having moderate herxing. Kept increasing to a fairly high amount (16 grams a day).
Switched to Nutramedix Samento and herxed even more significantly. Staying at 30 drops daily right now but may go higher.
I find it very beneficial. I think I may have co-infections so have added in Quina & Cumanda.
Have made more progress with these than I did with antibiotics. Dread the herxing but there's no question it's effective for myself and my family.
Posts: 191 | From Ontario | Registered: Feb 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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As for if it is effective, that would depend on what you want it to do for you. It is very calming which, for me, makes it one of the best supportive measures in my book.
I would never rely on it as the only method to address spirochetes, however, and there is no independent medical researce on that. I did that with Samento for year and it was not helpful in that manner. I know of 2 others who were disappointed in Samanto. However, there are others who have had different results and find it very helpful.
I'd say do a full review of all medical literature and then try which ever one you are led to - slowly - and see if you find improvement in symptoms. Again, begin very slowly. ONE drop in water. Yes, just one drop. Which ever type you use ONE drop is the best way to begin - in water. More than that and you are asking for a huge herx. I cannot stress this enough.
Some then move to capsules. Slowly is the only way to go with increases in dose - after reading from many authors and talking with your doctor.
When you speak of cat's claw, it is assumed you mean regular cat's claw. Otherwise, when asking for information, look for Samento, or the TAO-free.
Personally, I use only the regular cat's claw. Others use samento - which is not reflected in the articles below. The only independent research available is on regular cat's claw. Two articles - and authors of two books below - address that type. (You would find materials about Samento on other sites.)
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Concerning regular cat's claw, Singleton discusses it; Buhner offers a full presentation.
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This book, by an ILADS member LLMD, holds great information about treatments options and support measures:
. . . Research in Argentina reports that cat's claw is an effective antioxidant; other researchers in 2000 concluded that it is an antioxidant as well as a remarkably potent inhibitor of tumor necrosis factor (TNF) alpha production.
. . . In addition to the immunostimulant alkaloids, cat's claw contains the alkaloids rhynchophylline, hirsutine, and mitraphylline, which have demonstrated hypotensive and vasodilating properties.
- Full article at link above - with dozens of links to third party research articles.
posted
My husband's experience with Cat's Claw is that it is very potent stuff.
It has been very effective on skin symptoms that he has (itching, stinging). I'm sure it's having other effects as well, but that's the most evident.
It is still working even after a couple of years. He stopped it temporarily, and the symptoms resumed. Once he re-started, they backed off.
He has used the dosing guidelines in Buhners "Healing Lyme" book.
On another totally different note, my ex-husband (who travels abroad frequently, lots of jet lag) has started taking it when he arrives in Asia. He swears it knocks out jet lag. Don't know the mechanism, but pretty interesting.
Viva
Posts: 532 | From southeast US | Registered: Oct 2005
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Great info, Maria and Viva.
Someone just PMed me about finding a good alcohol-free cat's claw tincture. A google search popped up a brand or two but I don't know about the quality.
I suggested calling Rain-Tree and Herb Pharm next week to see what they'd say.
If anyone has experience with a top quality alcohol-free tincture, a source and link would be appreciated.
Also, if one can tolerate capsules, they can be excellent. Breaking open a capsule, dividing it into empty capsules at first may work unless the desired dose is found. The best guidance I've found is in Buhner's book.
posted
I just posted a question about this. Someone claimed researchers had actually found it to promote Bb growth.
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Keebler
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posted
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Adamm,
I went to that thread (that Bob gave on your other thread) and I could not find substantiation of that statement. I may have missed it, so . . .
Would you please post the links and the original article or statement about that. It's vital to document the direct source and exact statements or findings and the parameters of their work and conditions of their studies. Was it published?
Samento or cat's claw are not meant to kill lyme. They are meant to increase your immune system's ability to kill lyme. So in one sense what is better, a stronger immune system or an ABX that does the killing despite the immune system. There is no study for that.
So I'm guessing Semento would be fine to take for strengthening the immune system.
Maybe some others can comment... As far as research in vitro. I'm guessing its fiction, I couldn't find anything in Zurich University archives to suggest a study exists. That is the university that comes up when I trigger the link.
posted
Someone I know had their Lyme symptoms improve when they took a comination of benicar and samento.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Regular Cat's Claw did nothing to me, but Samento put me through four years of herxes from hell. I was never able to handle more than nine drops per day of it, and could not take any after noon, or I would not sleep at all.
It did help though, since I am now able to maintain the resulting higher enegy level with Epicor, which does not cause herxing.
Am I in remission.... NO. My illness is progressing in some very bad ways, but ironically, I am functioning better physically at the same time, and that counts for a lot with me, since my DH just can't handle any more.
klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Klutzo,
thanks for the reference to EpiCor.
Curious, I went searching. EpiCor� is Dried yeast fermentate. Here are two good articles if anyone is interested:
posted
Quick note, I read once that catsclaw was thought to work because it has Quinilone properties.
Cipro is a quinilone, so anyone who is allergic to quinilones (like me) should exercise caution. The SAmento people will give you more info about that.
Keebler, I searched the Epicor, as it said it was a dried yeast fermentate. Do you know how this differs from brewers yeast.
I started taking brewers yeast years ago as it alleviated my chest pain. Now that we know I've had Lyme for 25 years, my LLMD believes that my heart was infected at the time.
Cardiologist said it was all in my head. Don't you just love non LLMDs.
I believe the brewers yeast saved my life, so I'm really interested in just what this Epicor is. With the brewers yeast, you must also take probiotics, and I'm wondering if they've combined the two in this Epicor.
If you have info on Epicor's ingredients, I'd be interested. I think I'll also contact the company to ask just what's in it.
Wishing you all wellness!
-------------------- Wishing You Showers Of Blessings! Lyme since Fall 1983 = Diagnosed Summer 2008 IV Rocephin 7 weeks Stopped due to drug fever Now doxycycline "For I know the plans I have for you...plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 430 | From Sunny South | Registered: Jul 2008
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
melody, glad you brought up this pint about the quinilone. if you read "10 best lyme treatments" it states the same thing. says if you have problems with levaquin, don't take samento because they're in the same family and you'll have the same tendon damage.
after i couple of days of doing samento, wham-o!!! tendon pain just like the levaquin. my doc pulled me off levaquin because of the pain.
so it looks like samento is out for me.
or it could be a herx, i'm not sure. but i don't know if i'm willing to take a chance.
dang, i hate the antibiotics tho.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Samento is very potent. You've got to be wise about using it slowly. It modulates immunity, it's antimicrobial, it's just an all around potent treatment. However, it should be used gradually down the road. For those with no access to medical care and have to self treat, it's something to consider along with Banderol, Artemesia, and of course nutritional supplements like ALIVE multivitamin. That's a very primitive suggestion, but it gives you and idea that you have to use broad spectrum treatment whether using antibiotics, or herbal alternatives. Do your research. Dr. Burrscano's 2008 guidelines is a good tool to follow.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Hi Melodymaker, Epicor is a different type of yeast, and you do not need Probiotics with it, though I personally think everyone should take Probiotics, unless they eat a perfect diet.
Epicor is saccharomyces cerevisiae. It is proven to increase natural killer cell activity in vitro.
I started taking it when a friend of mine with Lyme was told to take it by her doctor. Since I have to self treat, I try to get advice from those who can afford LLMD's.
klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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lymeinhell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4622
posted
I was transitioned to TOA Free Cat's Claw (Prima una de Gato by Allergy Research) and weaned off antibiotics more than 4 years ago. I herxed like crazy within 30 minutes of taking a half capsule. Brain buzz, dizzies, vibrations, the works!!
I continue to take it daily and live a normal life. I periodically go off it, and tend to skip it on weekends now.
-------------------- Julie _ _ ___ _ _ lymeinhell
Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed. Posts: 2258 | From a better place than I was 11 yrs ago | Registered: Sep 2003
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