posted
What do people make of this document at the link below? When you get there please scroll down to read the entries for Borrelia burgdorferi , relapsing fever borrelia, bartonella , ehrlichia etc.:
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Keebler
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Are you a med student?
Is this from one?
From the URL, this seems to be from Wayne State University - or printed at their press. I wonder how many medical schools use this text?
The link to the book at the top of the page would not go through. As best I can tell from the URL, this was written in 2002.
Impression: with the "we're all gonna die" quip, it seems unprofessional and unlike a medical college text. Is this to make fun of patients or to minimize disease?
I know this is a section on bioterriorsim, but it has so many errors its scary in and of itself - doctors are learning wrong stuff here.
There are a few other phrases that seem unprofessional as well, such as the way they refer to dog urine with #19, leptospirosis. It also implies dogs are the main conduit. Not so. Many animals can be.
Space #17, referring to Bb, has inaccuracies plenty in several columns - as do all the sections about TBD (#17- 22).
Errors of omission include (but are not limited to) the absence of the Western Blot test. It implies only one kind of tick can transmit lyme (not true) . . . and it implies that a bulls eye rash must be present (not true). It implies CSF (lumbar puncture to capture the cerebral-spinal fluid) is a good test (it is not).
however, it does speak to tertiary lyme/chronic lyme.
with #17, definition column stating: "dissemination→acute (cardiac, neuro)→3ary (chronic) "
That's remarkable. But the examples are so wrong - so limited. It implies a lesion must be present and that they could actually find spirochetes in the blood. The rest of example section, too, is very disturbing in its errors.
They also do not cover enough strains of any of the TBD.
The most startling piece of this chapter is not so much the use of infection as a potential agent of "war" but that the texts these medical students are being taught about are NOT accurate tests.
By using these criteria, they leave many to suffer in silence. We may not have all the answers but ILADS' research leaves this document in the dust.
Not only are tomorrow's doctors not getting the best education possible, they should ask for their money back for being kept so in the dark about TBD.
Keebler
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posted
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The use of infection - even (or especially) chronic infection - goes way back in history. One stunning example of that is found here in the details about armies contaminating the food of their ememy:
posted
The medical student who wrote these notes is Topher Jentoft at Wayne State Uni.
Elena
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bettyg
Unregistered
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fyi, we have several med studies who DO have access to things we don't have, but due to NEURO LYME....I'VE FORGOTTEN THEIR NAMES HERE! uffda.
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posted
Yes Betty, but I find these notes remarkable not only because they acknowledge chronic Lyme etc, but because of the fact that Mr Jentoft appears to have attended a lecture where Bb, relapsing fever borrelia, ehrlichia and bartonella were all discussed ***as biowarfare pathogens***.
Sounds like one hell of a lecture.
Elena
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Yes, i also noticed the reference to diagnosing it by presence in the blood.
Oh, and did anyone notice what was NOT mentioned under methods of diagnosis? The western blot, the whole bedrock of Steerite diagnostic policy.
Of course Mr Jentoft may just have been not paying attention in class...
Please everyone read this document carefully. It's impossible that Jentoft dreamt this up out of his imagination. It may disappear off the web soon, so please save it to your hard disks.
A few years ago a CDC source leaked news of Lyme being studied at a biowar lab in Texas to the Associated Press. I told everyone about it and shortly after the URL went dead.
Fotunately some other sites had already archived it at the time.
Elena
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posted
Lida Mattman PhD was associated with Wayne State.
-------------------- This is only my opinion and/or experience with Lyme Disease. I am not a medical professional. Posts: 587 | From usa | Registered: Dec 2000
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
Looks like we're getting Lyme-aware professors out there. Good! This is all stuff that's hidden in plain sight, so to speak.
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posted
I don't think these notes are anything to do with Lida Mattman or an LLMD.
I think this student attended a lecture on biowarfare with restricted entry and accidentally posted his notes in a webspace available to the public.
I dont think this material was ever supposed to be put in the public domain.
Elena
quote:Originally posted by adamm: Looks like we're getting Lyme-aware professors out there. Good! This is all stuff that's hidden in plain sight, so to speak.
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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mojo
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I am copying and saving it in both of my computers.
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oxygenbabe
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It's an interesting document but if it was in 2002, consider that we were all pretty freaked about biowarfare after 9/11 and the anthrax "attacks" which might have occasioned a course on possible pathogenic organisms that could be used in bioterrorism.
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posted
I understand not writing out doctors name, however, I feel that the same protection should be given to others such as medical students.
-------------------- Contracted LD et al, August 2000 Officially dx, February 2006 My Lyme Neuroborreliosis mimics Multiple Sclerosis. Lesions- Brain, Cervical and Thoracic spine. Posts: 123 | From Seattle, WA | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
I find it very interesting that these are notes on both things like Anthrax and other types of possible weapons.
I wonder how many other University's are teaching this?????
I agree with Keebler, that it's sad that the information is not accurate though. I mean you would think the information for med-school would have to be top notch and accurate to boot.
What to do?????
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
HI Keebler, forgive me for sounding a little critical, but I do believe you might have got hold of the wrong end of the stick, as we say in the UK..
You say:
quote: Space #17, referring to Bb, has inaccuracies plenty in several columns - as do all the sections about TBD (#17- 22).
Errors of omission include (but are not limited to) the absence of the Western Blot test. It implies only one kind of tick can transmit lyme (not true) . . . and it implies that a bulls eye rash must be present (not true). It implies CSF (lumbar puncture to capture the cerebral-spinal fluid) is a good test (it is not).
however, it does speak to tertiary lyme/chronic lyme.
with #17, definition column stating: "dissemination→acute (cardiac, neuro)→3ary (chronic) "
That's remarkable. But the examples are so wrong - so limited. It implies a lesion must be present and that they could actually find spirochetes in the blood. The rest of example section, too, is very disturbing in its errors.
I would take it from the evidence in the student's notes that this was a vital lecture telling future doctors how they would respond to a suspected infection, perhaps from a biological attack, and in the situation where a rapid diagnosis was of the most awesome importance.
And that is why there is to be no messing about with Western blots, and why they have been told to look in the blood for spirochaetes .
The information about borrelia recurrentis being carried by other vectors is not a mistake. Together with all of the other things there, we can see that this is privileged information, that most doctors now would not have been told.
The ordinary GP will not be thinking of these topics - this must have been a special course that the student was attending.
I believe this document is an amazing find, out there on the web, and tells people what a lot of us know or what some of us have suspected , in other words, microscopy is fundamental and shows up an infection with burgdorferi.
This is what the Steere camp and other denialists try to keep hidden, and now we have the truth.
[B Look in the blood and body fluids, if you want to determine whether a patient has Lyme.[/B]
Don't you think on a second appraisal that this is what we can learn from the document?
best wishes, Andromeda
Posts: 180 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I'm not sure why people think the document is from 2002. As far as I understand it is from 2006.
That said, it doesn't really matter. The drive to expand "biodefense" in 2006 was just as intense, if not more so, than in 2002. Witness all the mega-labs being built in the last few years at maximum biocontainment level.
It's not surprising to see this relatively short list of pathogens discussed at a biowar lecture - but it ***is*** surprising to see included Borrelia burgdorferi, which as others have noted, is described as tertiary-"chronic", and diagnosed by finding the spirochetes in the blood (and other body fluids.)
After all, the word from officialdom, let's remember, is that Lyme is easily cured in 3 weeks antibiotics and almost never goes chronic.
It's also very eye-opening to see Bartonella and Ehrlichia listed there.
NONE of these organisms are described by the US public health agencies as being biowar threats, whereas virtually every other organism on the list is.
With the possible exception of B. recurrentis (relapsing fever borrelia). Relapsing fever has been documented as a disease studied by the Japanese bioweaponeers during WW2. However, it is not widely known as a biowarfare agent.
If these notes were just a reflection of an over-cautious professor broadening the net of suspected bioterror bugs, there's 101 microbes we would expect him to think of before one that's "easily-cured in 3 weeks", "hard-to-catch", "never chronic" etc..
Unless, of course, the IDSA Lyme committee, CDC, NIH etc are a pack of liars.
Now who would have thought such a thing?
Elena
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posted
bioterrorism... we're all agonna die! definition examples category A rarely seen in US; person-person dissemination (respiratory aerosolization); ↑ mortality; potential for major health impact; public health preparedness anthrax, botulism, plague, smallpox, tularemia, viral hemorrhagic fevers
category C engineered for mass dissemination in future because of availability; ease of production & dissemination; potential for ↑ morbidity & mortality
history history plague Japan (WWII) fleas into China; US & USSR aerosolization research; → pneumonic plague anthrax (1979) Sverdlovsk (USSR) 79 cases; (2001) USPS Distric of Columbia tularemia most infectious pathogenic bacteria; Japan ('32-'45); WWII Soviet-Germany; US stockpiles; USSR has manufactured resistant strains
ehrlichia chaffeensis ehrlichiosis; ixodes scapularis ticks; ~ to RMSF indirect immunofluorescence & ELISA: 4x rise in titer
pasteurella multocida gram (-) ox (+) bacillia normal zoonotic flora; infection via cat/dog bite/scratch chronic respiratory infection in pts. w/chronic lung disease
bioterrorism... we're all agonna die!
viruses of the evildoers orthopox-virus variola virus enveloped dsDNA smallpox: pustules; types: major (30-50% mortality) minor (1%); rare forms: flat-type (slow development, mortality 66% vaccinated 95% unvaccinated); hemorrhagic (extensive mucosal hemorrhage & toxemia, death before lesions) Dx: skin samples, rapid ID by electromicroscopy; immunoprecipitation -fluorescence, PCR (only way to distinguish among poxviruses). [see table listing distinctions btwn small/chickenpox] monkeypox: symptomatically similar to smallpox; transmitted by monkey bite entry via small lesions→lymphoid tissue (mononuclear phagocytes) →blood→skin; hard to distinguish monkey/smallpox
filoviridae ebola: -ssRNA no reservoir; entry route unknown no known Tx
arboviridae togaviridae enveloped +ssRNA (EEE, WEE, St.L.E) birds→mosquitoes→humans; fever, pains, headache, brain damage, seizure, coma from small cerebral hemorrhages
flaviviridae enveloped icosahedral +ssRNA Yellow Fever under control w/vaccine Dengue fever: ↑morbidity ↓mortality; ADE: (4 serotypes, Abs to 1 enhance pathogenicity of other) West Nile Virus: most widespread flavivirus; birds→mosquitoes/ticks→humans/horses/bats...; St. Louis encephalitis; birds→mosquitoes→humans; simple febrile headache→meningitis; mild in children, ↑ risk severe disease in elders
burna hantavirus [+/-ssRNA]; aerosilation of deer mouse poop Dx RT-PCR of isolated virus respiratory distress syndrome: hantavirus pulmonary syndrome
also keep in mind SARS, HCV, AIDS
Posts: 180 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
It was hard to copy, forgot to sign at the end.
It is such disturbing data to read. But it's no use burying our heads in the sand - ignorance is not bliss.
I have ordered a book from Amazon called Six-legged soldiers, Using insects as weapons of war,by Professor Jeffrey A. Lockwood. I think it will probably cover the eight-legged ones too.
Andromeda
Posts: 180 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Do you think it's possible that this is a hoax, that someone wrote this up and posted it, just so it would be found by "crazy Lyme patients" and posted on internet boards.
Nah, that's too paranoid.
Right?
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Six legged soldiers is one of the best books I've read since Lab 257.
I'm going to re read it, there is so much in there.
Has anyone else got a copy yet? What do you think?
The whole background mentality of using disease, and vectors of disease from mosquitos to flies to ticks, is discussed. Even during the Civil War in the US, generals had deliberate tactics to keep the opposing army camped down by the river in the swamplands, knowing that 75% of the men would succumb to fevers carried by the mosquitos.
It's all horrendous. It has to be read though, because this is the history of calculated warfare, and disease has been the biggest player until the atom bomb.
Napolean's army when invading Russia was wiped out by disease rather than the cold, which is against what we were taught at school. Out of half a million troops, only 7,000 returned to France.
The info on the Korean war, and on what the Japanese were doing in their huge germ warfare concentration camps during the 1930's and 40's is absolutely chilling.
I think that this should be a text book in every high school, for those above the age of 16 perhaps, because it is so frightening but so necessary to know.
Andromeda
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stymielymie
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he graduated in 2009 as below timeline makes no sense firstname, Topher. lastname, Jentoft. Med School Class, Class of 2009. email2, [email protected]. #1 Activity, SHUTTING THE [bleep] UP DURING LECTURE ... aesculapians09.blogspot.com/ - from google
docdave
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bettyg
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docdave,
thanks to our "sleuth" ... good find!
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oxygenbabe
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Oooh this book looks good (six legged soldiers)--I'm going to get it. Thanks!
Docdave--I don't get it. 2001 to 2009, what, did he take a leave of absence?
Anybody figure it out?
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stymielymie
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email him and ask him
docdave
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posted
Not sure what you mean about the timeline...what has the year 2001 got to do with it? He wrote the document in September 2006.
If anyone does write to him, please let us know what you find out. I suspect he will be somewhat perturbed to discover that his class notes are on the public internet.
Elena
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oxygenbabe
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Sorry--my memory was it was a 2001 or 2002 document.
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posted
I probably won't be able to discipher a lot of what hte article says due to lyme brain but am looking forward to reading it after seeing your replies.
This may seem extreme, but has anyone else noticed the correlation between lyme and other bacteria caused diseases and prophecies from the book of revelation?
Posts: 59 | From U.S. | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by oxygenbabe: Sorry--my memory was it was a 2001 or 2002 document.
Someone tried to work out the year from the URL, but that is not an accurate way to date a document.It could have been moved to its current location on the Web at any time. The document was written in MS Excel, which has its own date-tracking system. Excel dates it to Sept 2006.
Elena
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posted
Minnie, basically the document appears to be a set of notes written by a medical student called Topher Jentoft a Wayne State Univ Medical School in 2006. The lecture was on biowarfare pathogens.
Nearly all the germs discussed were well-known biowar organisms like anthrax, plague etc,, but he has also listed Borrelia burgdorferi, relapsing fever borrelia, ehrlichia and bartonella, with details of their presentation and diagnosis.
Under Bb, he has taken down notes to say that it becomes chronic, and also mentions searching for spirochetes in the blood as a diagnostic measure (this is a method used by some LLMDs but which the Steere camp say is worthless).
It's remarkable in that if accurate, this indicates that Lyme and relapsing fever Borreliae, as well as some of the co-infections, are known and acknowledged bioweapons - something which is roundly denied by US and other public health agencies.
By implication it also proves that Lyme is not a "hard-to-catch", "easily-cured" disease, that it does become chronic, and that searching for spirochetes in the blood is a valid and useful diagnostic method.
As for Revelation, personally I see the Lyme disaster as one visited upon us by Man, not God.
Elena
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oxygenbabe
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So, if it isn't just a regular class with one interesting "pathogens that might be used as bioweapons someday" session (ie not too meaningful)--is there anything unique about Wayne State? I know nothing about them.
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seekhelp
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I live right by Wayne State. Nothing I know of too significant.
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quote:Originally posted by oxygenbabe: --is there anything unique about Wayne State? I know nothing about them.
Maybe the answer lies here? Note the last paragraph especially.
"... A multidisciplinary team from WSU has received a $300,000 grant from the Department of Health and Human Services to develop a terrorism, disaster and public health emergency curriculum.
...Disaster-readiness training is integrated in WSU medical student curriculum
``Detroit is high risk for terrorism with a density of vulnerable populations,'' Dr. White said. ``How many students in pharmacy, nursing and medicine go untrained? Yet we look to health care professionals to take the lead when a disaster happens. Recognizing that WSU has a history of expertise in developing competencies for emergency and disaster medicine, we are filling a training gap with a five-module training program.''
The undergraduate curriculum focuses on recognizing possible terrorist or public health threats. It emphasizes: basic principles of disaster medicine; bioterrorism and biological agents; mental health and risk communication; nuclear and explosive threats; and chemical agents. These themes are taught throughout the undergraduate medical curriculum by microbiologists, pharmacists, crisis communication experts, radiation researchers and rescue operations teams....
While other schools and hospitals offer sporadic training seminars and disaster drills, this is the most comprehensive, curriculumbased training of its kind. WSU and Duke were the only two medical schools to receive funding this round from the U.S. Health Resources and Services Administration for disaster medicine training..."
material is from winter 2006 issue of Scribe bulletin, WSU.
Elena Cook
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oxygenbabe
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Great sleuthing. Although that means to me that Wayne State is not involved in anything too significant. I think that stuff took/takes place at Ft Detrick, previously at Plum Island, and so on. Who was the professor of that class--do you know?
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